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What Will GOP Do Once ACA is Accepted?

Its not an "I got mine" attitude. Its a matter of functionality. Making careers out of burger flipping simply is not a very functional economy. You can read Emile Durkheim if you need a better understanding of what I mean.

Also, I hate to break it to you, you can get rid of me and the likes of me all you want. Don't expect to have a very coherant society afterwards.
I imagine that once all the "dividers", the angry old white males, die off, this country will run far better and become, for many, a much better place to live.
 
I imagine that once all the "dividers", the angry old white males, die off, this country will run far better and become, for many, a much better place to live.

We will see. I have a feeling that many of the young voters (like myself) at some point or another in their are going to be disillusioned and start to shift more libertarian. As a college student I can already feel a new battle emerging... between those who graduate with worthless degrees and need government to survive, and those who go out and do something in the world and don't want to pay for other's mistakes. The old guard of the Republican party is quickly fading away, and in its place will be a more libertarian dominated party who is not so eager to compromise on how to expand the government.
 
Good. Then move to India and quit messing up America.

It is not I who is messing up America, but you. If you want to model America after Europe, simply move to Europe. Keep messing up this country.. and I, and many others like me, very well may move. Good luck running this country with a bunch of social workers and burger flippers.
 
It is not I who is messing up America, but you. If you want to model America after Europe, simply move to Europe. Keep messing up this country.. and I, and many others like me, very well may move. Good luck running this country with a bunch of social workers and burger flippers.
Well, you are losing...by a lot. So...

See ya. Don't let the door hit ya where the good lawd split ya.
 
We will see. I have a feeling that many of the young voters (like myself) at some point or another in their are going to be disillusioned and start to shift more libertarian. As a college student I can already feel a new battle emerging... between those who graduate with worthless degrees and need government to survive, and those who go out and do something in the world and don't want to pay for other's mistakes. The old guard of the Republican party is quickly fading away, and in its place will be a more libertarian dominated party who is not so eager to compromise on how to expand the government.
Well, one thing is true. The crazies who do not understand how a country works together to make it better is driving the GOP apart.
House’s 2 Kings personify GOP’s moderate-tea party split on government shutdown - The Washington Post
It's a good day when that makes the headlines.
 
Well, then maybe the GOp should just let it run it's course.

I suspect that the reason they don't is because they know it will be a wildly popular program. And, that--Obama have a successful presidency--scares then more than anything else. After all, the GOP is on record stating they want Obama to fail.

If the GOP were demanding to sit down and negotiate on the part-time 30-hour definition and the penalty? I'd back them. But they're not. I don't support what they're doing. I'm with you: Let it run its course and speak for itself.
 
Sorry, but 500 pound diabetics aren't "less fortunate" then me. They are just plain FAT by choice.

Do you have any vestige of a clue how ignorant this remark is?

Do you think you really know anything about type 2 diabetes; most of whatever you think you know about it is almost certainly wrong.

Those who have this condition did not choose to have it, and those who, as a result of this condition, are excessively prone to obesity did not choose that either.

It's a genetic condition. It's very pervasive on my father's side of the family, so I know something about it. I have this condition myself, though, very oddly, I don't seem to have the same tendency toward obesity that most people with this condition—including many of my relatives—have.
 
If the GOP were demanding to sit down and negotiate on the part-time 30-hour definition and the penalty? I'd back them. But they're not. I don't support what they're doing. I'm with you: Let it run its course and speak for itself.

Working together to fix what's broken, kind of like what we saw D's and R's do after 911, is my idea of good government. This divide and conquer nonsense that we've seen ever since the Black Democrat took office is really appalling.
 
Do you have any vestige of a clue how ignorant this remark is?

Do you think you really know anything about type 2 diabetes; most of whatever you think you know about it is almost certainly wrong.

Those who have this condition did not choose to have it, and those who, as a result of this condition, are excessively prone to obesity did not choose that either.

It's a genetic condition. It's very pervasive on my father's side of the family, so I know something about it. I have this condition myself, though, very oddly, I don't seem to have the same tendency toward obesity that most people with this condition—including many of my relatives—have.

Obesity is not genetic. Metabolism is genetic but no one is destined to be 500 pounds. Genes means two people eating the same diet might have different body weights and genes mean two people might look different at the same weight but it does NOT mean anyone is doomed to be fat. Literally everyone can lose weight by changing their diet. Thats physiology. Environment is the biggest factor, there is a reason why other countries do not have near the level of obesity we do and it has to do with diet.
 
Well, you are losing...by a lot. So...

See ya. Don't let the door hit ya where the good lawd split ya.

Good luck finding a good doctor when they are all gone.
 
See. That's the point: most people aren't as selfish as you. Why would you deny basic healthcare to children and other who are less fortunate than you?

That's idiotic. Just because I don't accept the idea that I have an obligation to pay for the healthcare of others or accept the idea of being forced onto a government program does not mean I'm selfish or that I'm denying anyone anything.
 
See. That's the point: most people aren't as selfish as you. Why would you deny basic healthcare to children and other who are less fortunate than you?

Btw, your error is a pretty classic one. These two quotes deal with it nicely...

It is not true that the mission of the law is to regulate our consciences, our ideas, our will, our education, our sentiments, our sentiments, our exchanges, our gifts, our enjoyments. Its mission is to prevent the rights of one from interfering with those of another, in any one of these things. Law, because it has force for its necessary sanction, can only have the domain of force, which is justice. - Frederic Bastiat

Socialism, like the old policy from which it emanates, confounds Government and society. And so, every time we object to a thing being done by Government, it concludes that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of education by the State — then we are against education altogether. We object to a State religion — then we would have no religion at all. We object to an equality which is brought about by the State then we are against equality, etc., etc. They might as well accuse us of wishing men not to eat, because we object to the cultivation of corn by the State.

How is it that the strange idea of making the law produce what it does not contain — prosperity, in a positive sense, wealth, science, religion — should ever have gained ground in the political world? The modern politicians, particularly those of the Socialist school, found their different theories upon one common hypothesis; and surely a more strange, a more presumptuous notion, could never have entered a human brain.

They divide mankind into two parts. Men in general, except one, form the first; the politician himself forms the second, which is by far the most important. -Frederic Bastiat
 
The 30-hour full-time regulation needs to be lowered to 20.
Is that kinda like one of them Soviet style planned economies? why do you or anyone else think it is the government's place to dictate such things? Are all Americans brainwashed into this type of thinking? Does anyone really think Osamacare is going to solve anything? Are most Americans insane?
 
Figure this fight over Obamacare ends one day...maybe even soon. After all, the GOP can't just keep beating a dead horse forever. What then?

Who really knows how history will describe this era? I do think back when the ACA was first passed, the republicans had every right to oppose it, if the polls were to be believed at that time 58% of all Americans opposed it and the Republicans rode that opposition to regaining the house and picking up 6 senate seats in 2010.

Today the polls vary from CNN's 57% opposed, 38% in favor to to the ACA to CBS's 51% oppose to 43% in favor. The RCP Average for 8 polls on health care is 51% oppose 40% in favor so since it first passage, the majority of Americans have been against it. If the ACA doesn't work out, it will be the Democrats who will be looked back on as trying to force something onto the American people that they didn't want. But if it does well, if it does work to the betterment, then the GOP will be taking the blame and the Democrats will look good for sticking to their guns.

But it is way too early in the game to know how it will fair, good or bad. I do know this, the Republicans by picking this fight is the best friends the ACA and the Democrats have. Without the government shutdown, all the glitches of ACA would be forefront in the news along with Syria, the IRS scandal etc.

The Republican Party has to be one of the most inept parties since 2010 I have seen in a very long time.
 
See. That's the point: most people aren't as selfish as you. Why would you deny basic healthcare to children and other who are less fortunate than you?

More quotes for you:

What, then, is law? It is the collective organization of the individual right to lawful defense.

Each of us has a natural right — from God — to defend his person, his liberty, and his property. These are the three basic requirements of life, and the preservation of any one of them is completely dependent upon the preservation of the other two. For what are our faculties but the extension of our individuality? And what is property but an extension of our faculties? If every person has the right to defend even by force — his person, his liberty, and his property, then it follows that a group of men have the right to organize and support a common force to protect these rights constantly. Thus the principle of collective right — its reason for existing, its lawfulness — is based on individual right. And the common force that protects this collective right cannot logically have any other purpose or any other mission than that for which it acts as a substitute. Thus, since an individual cannot lawfully use force against the person, liberty, or property of another individual, then the common force — for the same reason — cannot lawfully be used to destroy the person, liberty, or property of individuals or groups.

Such a perversion of force would be, in both cases, contrary to our premise. Force has been given to us to defend our own individual rights. Who will dare to say that force has been given to us to destroy the equal rights of our brothers? Since no individual acting separately can lawfully use force to destroy the rights of others, does it not logically follow that the same principle also applies to the common force that is nothing more than the organized combination of the individual forces?

If this is true, then nothing can be more evident than this: The law is the organization of the natural right of lawful defense. It is the substitution of a common force for individual forces. And this common force is to do only what the individual forces have a natural and lawful right to do: to protect persons, liberties, and properties; to maintain the right of each, and to cause justice to reign over us all.

A Just and Enduring Government

If a nation were founded on this basis, it seems to me that order would prevail among the people, in thought as well as in deed. It seems to me that such a nation would have the most simple, easy to accept, economical, limited, nonoppressive, just, and enduring government imaginable — whatever its political form might be.

Under such an administration, everyone would understand that he possessed all the privileges as well as all the responsibilities of his existence. No one would have any argument with government, provided that his person was respected, his labor was free, and the fruits of his labor were protected against all unjust attack. When successful, we would not have to thank the state for our success. And, conversely, when unsuccessful, we would no more think of blaming the state for our misfortune than would the farmers blame the state because of hail or frost. The state would be felt only by the invaluable blessings of safety provided by this concept of government.

It can be further stated that, thanks to the non-intervention of the state in private affairs, our wants and their satisfactions would develop themselves in a logical manner. We would not see poor families seeking literary instruction before they have bread. We would not see cities populated at the expense of rural districts, nor rural districts at the expense of cities. We would not see the great displacements of capital, labor, and population that are caused by legislative decisions.

The sources of our existence are made uncertain and precarious by these state-created displacements. And, furthermore, these acts burden the government with increased responsibilities. - Frederic Bastiat

The Law and Charity

You say: "There are persons who have no money," and you turn to the law. But the law is not a breast that fills itself with milk. Nor are the lacteal veins of the law supplied with milk from a source outside the society. Nothing can enter the public treasury for the benefit of one citizen or one class unless other citizens and other classes have been forced to send it in. If every person draws from the treasury the amount that he has put in it, it is true that the law then plunders nobody. But this procedure does nothing for the persons who have no money. It does not promote equality of income. The law can be an instrument of equalization only as it takes from some persons and gives to other persons. When the law does this, it is an instrument of plunder.

With this in mind, examine the protective tariffs, subsidies, guaranteed profits, guaranteed jobs, relief and welfare schemes, public education, progressive taxation, free credit, and public works. You will find that they are always based on legal plunder, organized injustice. - Frederic Bastiat
 
Obesity is not genetic. Metabolism is genetic but no one is destined to be 500 pounds. Genes means two people eating the same diet might have different body weights and genes mean two people might look different at the same weight but it does NOT mean anyone is doomed to be fat. Literally everyone can lose weight by changing their diet. Thats physiology. Environment is the biggest factor, there is a reason why other countries do not have near the level of obesity we do and it has to do with diet.

On this subject, you are just plain, embarrassingly ignorant.

You obviously do not have type 2 diabetes yourself, nor are you close with anyone who does. What you say makes sense from a theoretical point of view, but the practical reality for most who have this condition is very, very, very different than what you think it is.
 
Figure this fight over Obamacare ends one day...maybe even soon. After all, the GOP can't just keep beating a dead horse forever. What then?


The Tea Partiers will carry signs that say "Keep your government out of my Obamacare!"
 
On this subject, you are just plain, embarrassingly ignorant.

You obviously do not have type 2 diabetes yourself, nor are you close with anyone who does. What you say makes sense from a theoretical point of view, but the practical reality for most who have this condition is very, very, very different than what you think it is.

No, not really. Not everyone who is fat has type two diabetes, BUT every extra pound makes any given individual more likely to have it. Which is why every single other country in the world has a lower rate of it then we do, including ones with just as high of an income level. But you don't have to believe me. You can look at the research yourself. Or perhaps you think research smearch right? Then why do see anecdotes of people literally losing half or more of their body weight? If its genetic.... then diets shouldn't work at all right?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to come across as some snob know it all telling you what to do. Do as you please, just don't ask me to pay the same amount of money in health insurance. :lol:
 
Is that kinda like one of them Soviet style planned economies? why do you or anyone else think it is the government's place to dictate such things? Are all Americans brainwashed into this type of thinking? Does anyone really think Osamacare is going to solve anything? Are most Americans insane?

I guess we'll see, won't we? The government already intervenes in profit-sharing plans set up by companies -- a whole set of R&R's -- 401K' same way. The maximum hours needs to be set at 20, meaning if you have profit sharing/pension plans/401K's/health insurance, you have to cover anyone who works 20 hours or more. It used to be that way. Should have never been changed.
 
I guess we'll see, won't we? The government already intervenes in profit-sharing plans set up by companies -- a whole set of R&R's -- 401K' same way. The maximum hours needs to be set at 20, meaning if you have profit sharing/pension plans/401K's/health insurance, you have to cover anyone who works 20 hours or more. It used to be that way. Should have never been changed.

So, you would prefer a command type economic system? It's interference in the market that led to the employer based health care insurance model that we have today...
 
No, not really. Not everyone who is fat has type two diabetes, BUT every extra pound makes any given individual more likely to have it. Which is why every single other country in the world has a lower rate of it then we do, including ones with just as high of an income level. But you don't have to believe me. You can look at the research yourself. Or perhaps you think research smearch right? Then why do see anecdotes of people literally losing half or more of their body weight? If its genetic.... then diets shouldn't work at all right?

What do you really think you know about type 2 diabetes, that someone who has the condition, and who comes from a family where this condition is as pervasive as it is in mine, does not? What “research” have you read, that you don't think I have read? No matter what spin you try to put on it, you cannot change that you are coming across as someone who is waving your abject ignorance around like a proud banner, pontificating on a subject about which you know nothing, arguing with someone who knows much more about the subject than you ever will.

Not every fat person has type 2 diabetes. Not every type 2 diabetic is fat. But it is a fact that for most people who have type 2 diabetes, there comes, along with it, an exceptional tendency for the body to convert food into fat at the expense of using it to power the body the way it should. This makes it much more difficult for most type 2 diabetics to control their weight than it would be for someone without this condition. It is more difficult for most type 2 diabetics to get the nutrition and energy from their food that they needs to function than it is for someone who is not diabetic, and it is more difficult to avoid becoming obese as a result of trying to eat enough to function. It isn't laziness nor gluttony, and your suggestion that it is is not only ignorant, but downright offensive.



Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to come across as some snob know it all telling you what to do. Do as you please, just don't ask me to pay the same amount of money in health insurance. :lol:

Well, here we can get into agreements and disagreements over the intent and validity of the Obamacare scam itself. One of the key principles is that those with preexisting conditions may not be discriminated against. A person who was born blind is going to have health issues that a sighted person will not. A person who is deaf, or born with a deformity will have different health issues. A type 2 diabetic is going to be much more prone to obesity and related health issues, than someone who does not have type 2 diabetes. Your position regarding type 2 diabetes and obesity makes no more sense than a similar position would against anyone else with any other genetic disadvantage.


Now, perhaps you or others reading this exchange may imagine that since I've admitted to having type 2 diabetes, and I am so vigorously defending those who are obese as a result of this condition, that perhaps I am some fat lazy slob, making excuses for myself. Not so. I'm one of the rare type 2 diabetics who doesn't seem to have this problem. I strongly suspect that I have had, all my life, some other undiagnosed condition, that, until I developed diabetes, tended to make me thin and frail, and which now seems to balance out the tendency that the diabetes would otherwise have to make me fat and sluggish. I'm 5′9″ tall, and currently weigh about 170 pounds. The heaviest I have ever been was about 190 pounds, which is just at the boundary between “normal” and “overweight” for a man my height; that was right at the time I was diagnosed with diabetes, and the excess weight came off very easily for me, once I got the diabetes under control. Most type 2 diabetes don't have it nearly as easy as I have, with regard to their weight.
 
It won't take long before its flaws rear up and demand solutions. The only way this works is that young healthy people buy insurance. The penalty's too small. It needs to be pricier. The 30-hour full-time regulation needs to be lowered to 20. Companies can staff adequately at 29 hours a week -- they would not be able to staff at 19.

IMO, the plan is rapidly going to become a boondoggle unless these two above problems are addressed. Companies will be shifting the burden of providing health insurance on the government left and right by lowering hours to 29 . . . young people will stay out of the plan in droves until they get sick . . .

There's plenty of work to do. And THAT'S what Republicans should be focused on.

So, how will people be able to live, when 20 hours a week is considered a “full time” job? Who, but those with the most exceptionally-valuable and highly-paid skills, can live comfortably on 20 hours' worth of wages a week?
 
Bob, people will get two twenty hour a week jobs?
hah yeah I'm sure the folks on a salary who already work far more than 40 hour weeks will not be affected?
oh I know, lets get rid of the salaried folks and hire part timers to do the work?
The government no business messing with people's business?
 
Lol, they can save money by providing them plans that offer less than the plans they're already offer their employees. Fail.
ACA saves money for employers and employees alike ... What fail??
 
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