What We All Need To Do

Moderate Right · Oct 14, 2018

Luckyone said:
This is an opinion piece (mine) and as such there will be no quotes from anyone else. In addition, this is not an opinion piece leaning toward one side or the other but an idea that could help each and every one of us "do what is right".

I was listening to a political program tonight where it was stated that not only are the 2 parties split into being 2 enemies that hate each other but that both parties believe they are losing. The Republicans believe that the left is a mob trying to get them and the Democrats believe the deck is stacked against them by the Republicans.

The people on both parties are also being fed by being members of something where they have the support of others like themselves (Trump rallies and the Me Too movement) and that makes them feel good, supported, and part of something of value.

This made me think about the fact that both parties have strong complaints about the other party and many of the complaints are not only real but valid but the problem is that none of the complaints are being heard by the other side and therefore nothing gets accomplished as far as moving toward solutions that both can live with.

One of the things that I also believe is that the people that are in charge or were in charge before fomented this path over the years to the point that it has gotten impossible to solve simply by the fact that we feel we need to believe what we are being told by our leaders in order not to be ostracized by our own party. By the same token, each party (be it now or before) is acting like a "swamp" and the people that are and in the long run getting swallowed is us because we refuse to do what our own learnings and principles tell us to do.

One of the things I have repeated over and over before (mostly about Trump) is that he has no morals, ethics, principles or humanity and I do believe these 4 things are what each of us needs to stand on by our own selves in order to feel good about ourselves and not feel we are on the losing side.

In simple words, if we lean on morals, ethics, principles and humanity we will be on the winning side no matter who is President as these are the same things that our forefathers preached and lived by and as such, it makes us what our forefathers wanted us to be.

Taking this path will separate us from our own parties as we will be pariahs to them. Nonetheless, it won't separate us from ourselves or from God as we will be doing the right thing.

I know this is the hardest path to take given that we will not "belong" anymore to the party that supports us. Nonetheless, there is no one that can argue the strength of being a moral, ethical, principled and humane person.

I believe this is what we need to do.

Democrats always want to do the right thing, no matter how much it costs. The truth is, there is a fundamental difference in the way the two parties view "doing the right thing". Democrats argue Republicans are the party of no, the party fighting a war on women, minorities, the poor, seniors, and everyone else under the sun. In other words, they say that Republicans are evil and don't want to do the right thing. Republicans argue that we need to grow the economy and put things in place that encourage people to be self sufficient and that everything Democrats do merely rewards people for being lazy bums and that they put policies in place that keep the poor in a cycle of poverty generation after generation after generation. In short, since both parties have vastly different ideas for doing the right thing and disagree with the other side's ideas, I don't see how "doing the right thing" would work.

Isn't giving a tax cut to everyone doing the right thing? The left would say no because the rich fared better than the poor. But, the right would say that giving the rich more, benefits the poor by giving them jobs they did not have before, etc. Both sides already feel they are doing the right thing, while loudly arguing that the other side isn't.

Bullseye · Oct 14, 2018

SoCal said:
You might be surprised to learn that a majority of Republicans still have a problem with a woman's right to an abortion;

"...Among American voters, 71% expressed support while only 23% thought the decision should be reversed.

More surprising, however, is that 52% of Republican voters polled expressed support for Roe v. Wade, a result at odds with policies put into place by GOP officials. Thirty-nine percent of Republicans polled opposed the landmark legal decision.

Roe v Wade doesn't abolish abortion, it just returns jurisdiction to the states

SoCal said:
Regarding your comment on the GOP offer, I don't doubt that Republicans believe it was a fair proposal. It makes perfect sense if you believe taking children from their parents is 'fair'..

Taking children from their parents was done during the Obama administration as well and really has no bearing on this discussion.

This thread isn't about abortion, shall we get back to the topic?

Bullseye · Oct 14, 2018

Luckyone said:
And you claim you've done that?

I see that you did not reply to my other post where I said that you might as well invite the devil to dinner. You don't have a response to that?[/quote]I'm not required to respond to everything you post. I chose not to.

Luckyone said:
As far as your post claiming that I have not respected other people's motives, show me one single post that I have written where I have stated that Republicans have different motives or that I don't respect them. That doesn't mean that I agree with their motives given that my objectives in life are different (morals, ethics, principles and humanity and then economics). What I have been doing from day one is asking people like yourself whether morals, ethics, principles and humanity are important to you.

I think you answered that clearly in your previous post.............empty soul.

On a different thread yesterday you responded to me with the classic "Trumpster" slur. You can spin your "show me" all you want, that is still a fact.

Sorry if I misunderstood the intent of your thread. I assumed it was an attempt to get us talking together in a rational and respectful way. Now it seems you want us to take some kind of oath over your litany of "morals, ethics, principles and humanity" as YOU define them.

Luckyone · Oct 14, 2018

Moderate Right said:
Democrats always want to do the right thing, no matter how much it costs. The truth is, there is a fundamental difference in the way the two parties view "doing the right thing". Democrats argue Republicans are the party of no, the party fighting a war on women, minorities, the poor, seniors, and everyone else under the sun. In other words, they say that Republicans are evil and don't want to do the right thing. Republicans argue that we need to grow the economy and put things in place that encourage people to be self sufficient and that everything Democrats do merely rewards people for being lazy bums and that they put policies in place that keep the poor in a cycle of poverty generation after generation after generation. In short, since both parties have vastly different ideas for doing the right thing and disagree with the other side's ideas, I don't see how "doing the right thing" would work.

Isn't giving a tax cut to everyone doing the right thing? The left would say no because the rich fared better than the poor. But, the right would say that giving the rich more, benefits the poor by giving them jobs they did not have before, etc. Both sides already feel they are doing the right thing, while loudly arguing that the other side isn't.

Let me clarify something for you.

My quote about "doing the right thing" is based on morals, ethics, principles and humanity. The Republicans believe that doing the right thing is based mostly on economics and though money is important, morals, ethics, principles and humanity should not be put aside to accomplish an economic goal.

It has been my experience and deeply rooted belief that all of these can work together without casting any of them aside but it does take working together to accomplish such a goal, even though the probabilities do not favor either of these goals being accomplished to the nth degree. Like everything in life, getting a little and giving a little is what works best because instead of having 50% (or less) of the population unhappy, 100% of the population would be happy though not as happy as they would otherwise be if their side got 100%.

The problem as I see it is that by nature, the Republicans favor Capitalism and economic growth and by nature as well, Capitalism breeds greed and corruption, meaning that doing what the Republicans want to do would bring out the worst in people and not the best or not even a compromise. Greed and corruption are the antithesis of morals, ethics, principles, and humanity and as such, only by compromising together can something that works for all can be accomplished.

I believe Greed and corruption are the biggest problems that face the Republicans and by the nature of what they want to accomplish, greed and corruption is the by-product that is generated.

Let me ask you something. Do you believe the United States would be a good place to live if it the population was only 1% of what it is now? After all, take away the 99% that are not rich, and what kind of a nation would United States be? Something perhaps like Saudi Arabia?

Luckyone · Oct 14, 2018

Bullseye said:
I see that you did not reply to my other post where I said that you might as well invite the devil to dinner. You don't have a response to that?I'm not required to respond to everything you post. I chose not to.
On a different thread yesterday you responded to me with the classic "Trumpster" slur. You can spin your "show me" all you want, that is still a fact.

Sorry if I misunderstood the intent of your thread. I assumed it was an attempt to get us talking together in a rational and respectful way. Now it seems you want us to take some kind of oath over your litany of "morals, ethics, principles and humanity" as YOU define them.

You consider that putting me down is talking? So far, most of your comments have been to tell me that my morals, ethics, principles and humanity are wrong because the most important thing is economics. Have you at any point stated that you have (or more importantly believe) that morals, ethics, principles and humanity have any importance? All I have heard from you is that Trump is doing a good job because the economy is good, there is more employment and people have a better outlook for economic health and in saying that, you are condoning every rotten thing that Trump has done in debasing people, lying every day about everything, having no humanity when making decisions, etc etc etc.

Have you no heart? or is it just that the almighty dollar is your God.

As long as you think that way, there will be no compromise possible. There is a way to accomplish everything together but with a little less of everything. Nonetheless, greed usually makes people take everything to extreme. A billion dollars is not enough, we need to make 2 billion, 3 billion and on an on. In the meantime sc*ew everyone else that tries to get in the way and accomplish "other" goals. Money, money, money. Will your money remember you when you die? Will it cry for you? Can you take it to your grave and use it? Is that what God supports?

I truly feel sorry for you.

Bullseye · Oct 14, 2018

Luckyone said:
You consider that putting me down is talking? So far, most of your comments have been to tell me that my morals, ethics, principles and humanity are wrong because the most important thing is economics.

Nope, haven't said that at all.

Luckyone said:
Have you at any point stated that you have (or more importantly believe) that morals, ethics, principles and humanity have any importance? All I have heard from you is that Trump is doing a good job because the economy is good, there is more employment and people have a better outlook for economic health and in saying that, you are condoning every rotten thing that Trump has done in debasing people, lying every day about everything, having no humanity when making decisions, etc etc etc.

In other words he's doing the job the voters hired him to. So fat, IMHO, I haven't seen him violate any of those principles to any degree greater then previous Presidents or other elected officials. He was elected Pope (oops, given the Church's recent problems maybe not the best example) he was elected President.

Luckyone said:
Have you no heart? or is it just that the almighty dollar is your GodI

I have a heart and it is capable of forgiveness and tolerance. So far we know he's had affairs, bragged about inappropriate behavior. Humanity - he's worked the release of prisoners in Turkey and North Korea, repatriated the remains of soldiers kill in the Korean war just to name a few.

Luckyone said:
As long as you think that way, there will be no compromise possible.

So the only "compromise" possible is to fully agree with you? How is that a compromise?

Luckyone said:
There is a way to accomplish everything together but with a little less of everything. Nonetheless, greed usually makes people take everything to extreme. A billion dollars is not enough, we need to make 2 billion, 3 billion and on an on. In the meantime sc*ew everyone else that tries to get in the way and accomplish "other" goals. Money, money, money. Will your money remember you when you die? Will it cry for you? Can you take it to your grave and use it? Is that what God supports?

I truly feel sorry for you.

I'm not rooting for economic growth to make people richer although a growing economy will do that and probably create MORE wealthy people, but it will ALSO help others escape poverty or dependence on government, or to create new businesses, or move up the economic ladder. Go feel sorry for some on else I'm not interested in your sanctimous BS. I feel sorry for myself for actually thinking you were looking for common ground from which to discuss the issues.

Luckyone · Oct 14, 2018

Bullseye said:
Nope, haven't said that at all.

In other words he's doing the job the voters hired him to. So fat, IMHO, I haven't seen him violate any of those principles to any degree greater then previous Presidents or other elected officials. He was elected Pope (oops, given the Church's recent problems maybe not the best example) he was elected President.
I have a heart and it is capable of forgiveness and tolerance. So far we know he's had affairs, bragged about inappropriate behavior. Humanity - he's worked the release of prisoners in Turkey and North Korea, repatriated the remains of soldiers kill in the Korean war just to name a few.

So the only "compromise" possible is to fully agree with you? How is that a compromise?

I'm not rooting for economic growth to make people richer although a growing economy will do that and probably create MORE wealthy people, but it will ALSO help others escape poverty or dependence on government, or to create new businesses, or move up the economic ladder. Go feel sorry for some on else I'm not interested in your sanctimous BS. I feel sorry for myself for actually thinking you were looking for common ground from which to discuss the issues.

That is fine with me (as far as not being interested).

For your information, I have never said there is anything wrong with economic growth but the price that has to be paid with Trump is not one that I, or the large portion of the population of the United States, are willing to pay for. I will follow a leader and those that I "respect" and am willing to give my life for worthy goals. I am a veteran and already did that for my country and would be willing to do it again, but then only for those I believe have earned the right to lead. Those that are more than I am.

With Trump, you are not following someone who has earned anything of value, just money and even then you are taking a risk that by following him, he might end up bankrupting the United States (and in the process you as well) as he has done 6 times before and from which it was necessary to go to Russian banks (and likely sell his soul) to be helped out of a financial disaster. Are you really willing to take that risk? After all, his record speaks for itself, especially considering that he needed his daddy (and over $400 million dollars) to bail him out and then when that money ran out, he needed the Russian banks to bail him out to the tune of at least $1 billion dollars to continue his path. It is my belief, that if it wasn't for the Russian bailout, he would be penniless today. Do you want Russia to bail us out in the future when he bankrupts us?

As far as finding a common ground to talk, the first thing that always needs to be found is a common ground and so far the common ground that I have talked about and that most every person in the entire world uses as a common ground, which is morals, ethics, principles and humanity, you have yet to even agree that you have any interest in those. Meaning that your contention that I am not doing what I am saying I am doing falls back on you because all you have offered is...............nothing.

It was an interesting experience having talked to you but it was not one that went anywhere so unfortunately it turned out to be a total waste of time.

I will say this to you: "I sincerely hope that what my outlook for the future under Trump does not come to be, because if it does come to be, people like you that believed in him will be the hardest hit".

Have a good life. Fill your pockets with money and use it while on this earth because when its over, the devil will come for you.

Bullseye · Oct 14, 2018

Luckyone said:
That is fine with me (as far as not being interested).

For your information, I have never said there is anything wrong with economic growth but the price that has to be paid with Trump is not one that I, or the large portion of the population of the United States, are willing to pay for. I will follow a leader and those that I "respect" and am willing to give my life for worthy goals. I am a veteran and already did that for my country and would be willing to do it again, but then only for those I believe have earned the right to lead. Those that are more than I am.

I'm a veteran as well - of 22 years. Oh, and Trump's popularity is approaching 50% so there's an equally large portion that approves of his policies.

Luckyone said:
With Trump, you are not following someone who has earned anything of value, just money and even then you are taking a risk that by following him, he might end up bankrupting the United States (and in the process you as well) as he has done 6 times before and from which it was necessary to go to Russian banks (and likely sell his soul) to be helped out of a financial disaster. Are you really willing to take that risk? After all, his record speaks for itself, especially considering that he needed his daddy (and over $400 million dollars) to bail him out and then when that money ran out, he needed the Russian banks to bail him out to the tune of at least $1 billion dollars to continue his path. It is my belief, that if it wasn't for the Russian bailout, he would be penniless today. Do you want Russia to bail us out in the future when he bankrupts us?

Oh, brother! Can you get any more melodramatic and maudlin?

Luckyone said:
As far as finding a common ground to talk, the first thing that always needs to be found is a common ground and so far the common ground that I have talked about and that most every person in the entire world uses as a common ground, which is morals, ethics, principles and humanity, you have yet to even agree that you have any interest in those. Meaning that your contention that I am not doing what I am saying I am doing falls back on you because all you have offered is...............nothing[

LOL, seriously, you claim to speak for everyone else in the world? Seriously? Delusional much?

Luckyone said:

It was an interesting experience having talked to you but it was not one that went anywhere so unfortunately it turned out to be a total waste of time.

Click to expand...

Yay, we finally found common ground.

Luckyone said:

I will say this to you: "I sincerely hope that what my outlook for the future under Trump does not come to be, because if it does come to be, people like you that believed in him will be the hardest hit".

Click to expand...

So, apparently when I explained that I DIDN'T "believe IN TRUMP" but supported SOME of his plans and policies I must have been talking in a language you don't comprehend.

LuckyOne said:

Have a good life. Fill your pockets with money and use it while on this earth because when its over, the devil will come for you.

Click to expand...

Jeez, can you be anymore superficial?

Luckyone · Oct 14, 2018

Bullseye said:
I'm a veteran as well - of 22 years. Oh, and Trump's popularity is approaching 50% so there's an equally large portion that approves of his policies.

Oh, brother! Can you get any more melodramatic and maudlin?

Trumps popularity was at 43% as of yesterday and that is the lowest of any President at this time of his Presidency. It also has to be stated that his "base" in considered to be about 35% of the U.S. Population. So you mean to tell me that this is good? 57% of the people disapprove and are unhappy. Is not the President supposed to be a President for all, or just a few?

As far as melodramatic and maudlin, I did not expect any other response from you. The reality is that you (as a Trump supporter) cannot respond in any other way than to pooh-pooh it given that it is 100% true.

LOL, seriously, you claim to speak for everyone else in the world? Seriously? Delusional much?

I did not say "everyone", I said most everyone. Am I delusional? The answer is "no" if you follow or have read history. Throughout history people have responded well to hero's and badly to villains, meaning that people generally believe in people that are moral, ethical, principled and humane and respond badly to those that aren't. As such, I don't need support my statement, simply because history has shown that my statement is true.

Anyhow, Bullseye, I don't believe you and I have anything else to discuss.

trixare4kids · Oct 14, 2018

Bullseye said:
I'm a veteran as well - of 22 years. Oh, and Trump's popularity is approaching 50% so there's an equally large portion that approves of his policies.

Oh, brother! Can you get any more melodramatic and maudlin?
LOL, seriously, you claim to speak for everyone else in the world? Seriously? Delusional much?
So, apparently when I explained that I DIDN'T "believe IN TRUMP" but supported SOME of his plans and policies I must have been talking in a language you don't comprehend.
Jeez, can you be anymore superficial?

Remember anti-Trump speak goes like this. They often speak of tolerance, ethics, and morality, but they only tolerate their own ideas to promote collectivism. They seek to condemn any speech that promotes individualism as "hate speech."
And you knew his, "the devil will come for you," was coming...:lol:

SoCal · Oct 14, 2018

Bullseye said:
Roe v Wade doesn't abolish abortion, it just returns jurisdiction to the states

Taking children from their parents was done during the Obama administration as well and really has no bearing on this discussion.

This thread isn't about abortion, shall we get back to the topic?

Maybe you weren't aware, but the number of children taken from their parents during this and the last administration is like night and day and is the reason the Dems didn't take Trump's offer. And everyone knows how Trump bends over backwards trying to work out a compromise with the Dems. He'd never use a misrepresention of his offer only to rev up his mob during his rallys.

Regarding your comment on abortion, if you look at a blue/red map of the US, it looks like there's a lot more red than blue states. While the lions share of our country's population live near the coasts, vast square miles of sparsely populated country are controlled by 'salt of the earth' rednecks.

So I hope you wish all those women, living in all those red states, all the luck in the world trying to control their own bodies...

My work is done here, I've said my piece on refugees so you can have the last word...

Bullseye · Oct 14, 2018

Luckyone said:
Trumps popularity was at 43% as of yesterday and that is the lowest of any President at this time of his Presidency.

Prove it.

Luckyone said:
It also has to be stated that his "base" in considered to be about 35% of the U.S. Population.

Who said that?

Luckyone said:
So you mean to tell me that this is good? 57% of the people disapprove and are unhappy. Is not the President supposed to be a President for all, or just a few?

What poll did you use for that?

Luckyone said:
As far as melodramatic and maudlin, I did not expect any other response from you. The reality is that you (as a Trump supporter) cannot respond in any other way than to pooh-pooh it given that it is 100% true.

Zealots always think every thing the say is true - usually it's not.

Luckyone said:
I did not say "everyone", I said most everyone. Am I delusional? The answer is "no" if you follow or have read history. Throughout history people have responded well to hero's and badly to villains, meaning that people generally believe in people that are moral, ethical, principled and humane and respond badly to those that aren't. As such, I don't need support my statement, simply because history has shown that my statement is true.

LOL, sure, your infallibility and holiness is unquestionable. :roll:

Luckyone said:
Anyhow, Bullseye, I don't believe you and I have anything else to discuss.

You never wanted to discuss anything you just wanted your sanctimonious blather validated. I mistakenly thought you might have been serious about turning down the incivility.

Moderate Right · Oct 14, 2018

Luckyone said:
Let me clarify something for you.

My quote about "doing the right thing" is based on morals, ethics, principles and humanity. The Republicans believe that doing the right thing is based mostly on economics and though money is important, morals, ethics, principles and humanity should not be put aside to accomplish an economic goal.

It has been my experience and deeply rooted belief that all of these can work together without casting any of them aside but it does take working together to accomplish such a goal, even though the probabilities do not favor either of these goals being accomplished to the nth degree. Like everything in life, getting a little and giving a little is what works best because instead of having 50% (or less) of the population unhappy, 100% of the population would be happy though not as happy as they would otherwise be if their side got 100%.

The problem as I see it is that by nature, the Republicans favor Capitalism and economic growth and by nature as well, Capitalism breeds greed and corruption, meaning that doing what the Republicans want to do would bring out the worst in people and not the best or not even a compromise. Greed and corruption are the antithesis of morals, ethics, principles, and humanity and as such, only by compromising together can something that works for all can be accomplished.

I believe Greed and corruption are the biggest problems that face the Republicans and by the nature of what they want to accomplish, greed and corruption is the by-product that is generated.

Let me ask you something. Do you believe the United States would be a good place to live if it the population was only 1% of what it is now? After all, take away the 99% that are not rich, and what kind of a nation would United States be? Something perhaps like Saudi Arabia?

In other words, you want Republicans to change, IE you are not an Independent at all but a lefty. Your view is the lefty view. Republicans don't do the right thing but Democrats do.

Luckyone · Oct 14, 2018

Moderate Right said:
In other words, you want Republicans to change, IE you are not an Independent at all but a lefty. Your view is the lefty view. Republicans don't do the right thing but Democrats do.

No, I don't expect Republicans to change. What I do expect and want is to find a compromise where both sides give something and get something. Is there anything wrong with that?

What I did say in the post you are responding to is that greed makes it very difficult for the Republicans to give anything because greed implies excess and that means the Republicans wanted it all. A billion dollars is not enough, lets go for 2 billion and once we have 2 billion, lets go for 3 billions and on and on. Lets find a level where both sides get some of what they want.

Do you NOT agree?

Moderate Right · Oct 14, 2018

Luckyone said:
No, I don't expect Republicans to change. What I do expect and want is to find a compromise where both sides give something and get something. Is there anything wrong with that?

What I did say in the post you are responding to is that greed makes it very difficult for the Republicans to give anything because greed implies excess and that means the Republicans wanted it all. A billion dollars is not enough, lets go for 2 billion and once we have 2 billion, lets go for 3 billions and on and on. Lets find a level where both sides get some of what they want.

Do you NOT agree?

What should Democrats do to compromise? They are the ones who think they are the party of the right thing to do and expect Republicans to climb aboard their train. I'm actually not trying to be confrontational but I am curious, if you had the power, what would you expect Democrats to compromise on?

Hawkeye10 · Oct 14, 2018

Moderate Right said:
What should Democrats do to compromise? They are the ones who think they are the party of the right thing to do and expect Republicans to climb aboard their train. I'm actually not trying to be confrontational but I am curious, if you had the power, what would you expect Democrats to compromise on?

We can start with that huge chunks of America and the people who live there should be written off as a loss, and ignored.

Luckyone · Oct 14, 2018

Moderate Right said:
What should Democrats do to compromise? They are the ones who think they are the party of the right thing to do and expect Republicans to climb aboard their train. I'm actually not trying to be confrontational but I am curious, if you had the power, what would you expect Democrats to compromise on?

I don't have the time to go down the list of everything the Republicans and Democrats want. I just know that getting together and talking about it would do wonders. By the same token, that will not happen while each other is accusing the other of everything wrong. Given that the Republicans are presently in power, it is they that have ALL the power right now and therefore are the ones that should open the lines of communication.

One example that I can give you right now. The Democrats were 99% against Kavanaugh and the Republicans had a list of 25 conservative judges that they would have been happy with, meaning the Republicans should have taken Kavanaugh out and put one of the other 24 conservative judges left. That would have been a "start" that the Democrats could have lived with.

Thoreau72 · Oct 15, 2018

Hawkeye10 said:
Keep in mind that I say that Obama is a Lazy prick who has very bad judgement, so it is not all sweetness and light....

He wants to do the right thing, he just cant manage to get it done, or figure out what right is...

He had his chance to do the right thing, to uphold his oath of office. He failed on both counts. He was as big a crook as his predecessor(s) and his successor.

TheParser · Oct 15, 2018

Luckyone said:
In simple words, if we lean on morals, ethics, principles and humanity we will be on the winning side no matter who is President as these are the same things that our forefathers preached and lived by and as such, it makes us what our forefathers wanted us to be.

I believe that many people already follow your advice.

That is to say, many people do NOT vote and could not care less about politics.

*****

Yesterday a Jehovah Witness reminded me in one of these forums that members of that religion do NOT involve themselves whatsoever in politics. They simply live their lives in accordance with their religious beliefs.

code1211 · Oct 20, 2018

Luckyone said:
Our conversations are over. I have no idea what you are trying to prove but it has nothing to do with the thread or anything we have talked about.

By the way and for your information. I am 73 years old, have owned 2 businesses, was a stock broker/analyst for the major brokerage firms for 10 years and consider myself intelligent above the average.

You are talking to me as if I was a baby and even then you are not making sense.

That's it between you and me.

Well, this post has been as responsive to my questions as all of your previous ones.

You are consistent. I'll give you that.

code1211 · Oct 20, 2018

SoCal said:
I've already answered your question (no), but apparently you'd rather parrot Numnuts, "sh_t hole" rant than accept it. Fox news probably never told you, but if you Google, "Central American refugees", you might be able to understand. Jewish people fleeing Hitler were no more deserving asylum than brown people fleeing the Northern Triangle.

"...More than 40 percent had a relative who was killed in the past two years. Thirty-one percent knew someone who was kidnapped; 17 percent knew someone who disappeared...

...In 2016, the U.S. government detained 224,854 people from El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras —less than one-tenth of 1 percent of the U.S. population. If they were allowed to stay, and even if the rate were maintained for a decade, it would still be a much smaller share of the U.S. population than previous waves of Irish, Italians, and Russian Jews. These groups were also greeted with suspicion, but now few would deny their value as Americans. Far from being an economic drain, refugees contribute to the economy, driven to succeed and often innovative...."

But does learning about the persecution of Central Americans matter to conservatives in the end?!? If in 1939, they thought Jews could never be, 'real Americans', why would they feel anything different about refugees from Central America?

We're a nation of immigrants, always have been and always will be. But we can always count on conservatives fearing and hating every new wave of immigrants, past present and future.

We're a nation of immigrants, but conservatives will never 'get over it'...

Why do people who make your argument seem unable to understand the difference between immigrants and illegal immigrants.

Can you understand the subtle difference between shoppers and looters?

Jockeys and horse thieves?

Surgeons and OJ Simpson?

The argument you make may justify plenty of things, but is not about US immigration.

Seeking asylum from the injustice in Honduras has nothing at all to do with US immigration law or policy.

The folks are proudly waving the Honduran flag as they march across a couple countries to get to the US. If they were merely escaping Honduras, they did so two countries ago.

How many of the Refugees are marching south?

Thoreau72 · Oct 20, 2018

I know the difference between legal and illegal immigrants. The former has a government issued piece of paper, the latter does not. I've never explored it, but likely there is a market where counterfeit government papers can be bought.

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