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What was up with blackface in the South during the 1980's?

Hawkeye10

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Maybe 70's as well, it was clearly a thing in some places, the University for sure. Was this edgy fun like a Pimps and Hoes party? I never saw any blackface and never heard anyone talking about blackface that I can recall, nor can I imagine any of the people that I hung with being interested in that, so I am trying to understand what this was all about.

Pimps and Hoes parties I certainly saw, one has to wonder if photos of people taking part with be next evidence of lack of purity used to ruin people.
 

Bucky

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Maybe 70's as well, it was clearly a thing in some places, the University for sure. Was this edgy fun like a Pimps and Hoes party? I never saw any blackface and never heard anyone talking about blackface that I can recall, nor can I imagine any of the people that I hung with being interested in that, so I am trying to understand what this was all about.

Pimps and Hoes parties I certainly saw, one has to wonder if photos of people taking part with be next evidence of lack of purity used to ruin people.

This is the same bs from people that say white people cannot dress up as black panther.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a non-black person in blackface.
 

Hawkeye10

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This is the same bs from people that say white people cannot dress up as black panther.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a non-black person in blackface.

I dont have a problem with it either, but that does not answer the question of what this is all about. Certainly there was at the time no shame in it when photos were placed in yearbooks, where as now people need to have their lives ruined if we find out that they took part.
 

ataraxia

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Maybe 70's as well, it was clearly a thing in some places, the University for sure. Was this edgy fun like a Pimps and Hoes party? I never saw any blackface and never heard anyone talking about blackface that I can recall, nor can I imagine any of the people that I hung with being interested in that, so I am trying to understand what this was all about.

Pimps and Hoes parties I certainly saw, one has to wonder if photos of people taking part with be next evidence of lack of purity used to ruin people.

Young people like to do things that get adults all stirred up: devil worship, blackface, getting a weird tattoo or a Mohawk haircut, running naked through the town square on a dare, dressing up as Nazis, etc...

Remember the young Prince Harry when he was photographed dressed up as a Nazi at a party? I can't imagine it's because he was a real Nazi. It was just to be all controversial.

princeharry.jpg
 

Bucky

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I dont have a problem with it either, but that does not answer the question of what this is all about. Certainly there was at the time no shame in it when photos were placed in yearbooks, where as now people need to have their lives ruined if we find out that they took part.

This is about a far-left/twitter mob agenda. These people want to rip and shred these people in pieces eat them for lunch. There is no forgiveness in their heart. They are vultures.
 

Hawkeye10

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Young people like to do things that get adults all stirred up: devil worship, blackface, getting a weird tattoo or a Mohawk haircut, running naked through the town square on a dare, dressing up as Nazis, etc...

Remember the young Prince Harry when he was photographed dressed up as a Nazi at a party? I can't imagine it's because he was a real Nazi. It was just to be all controversial.

View attachment 67249966

At the time 25 year olds where considered to be adults, so this explanation has problems...
 

ataraxia

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At the time 25 year olds where considered to be adults, so this explanation has problems...

The lines we draw between childhood and adulthood are somewhat arbitrary. I guess they are necessary for legal purposes. But I know I was thinking and doing some pretty stupid things even at 25. I am not excusing the behavior. I am just trying to explain it.
 

Hawkeye10

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This is about a far-left/twitter mob agenda. These people want to rip and shred these people in pieces eat them for lunch. There is no forgiveness in their heart. They are vultures.

Oh we know exactly what happens when purity tests get deployed, and when all who fail them must be ruined.....history is full of that.

Over time they get increasingly hard to pass and the damage keeps ramping up until the society decides that so much damage to the society is getting done that they must stop.
 

Bodi

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This is the same bs from people that say white people cannot dress up as black panther.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a non-black person in blackface.


As long as black kids don't dress up like white characters I am fine with people with that logic...
 

Bodi

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Young people like to do things that get adults all stirred up: devil worship, blackface, getting a weird tattoo or a Mohawk haircut, running naked through the town square on a dare, dressing up as Nazis, etc...

Remember the young Prince Harry when he was photographed dressed up as a Nazi at a party? I can't imagine it's because he was a real Nazi. It was just to be all controversial.

View attachment 67249966

I loved being young so I could dress up like a racist and destroy **** and people would just shake their heads and chuckle... kids will be kids.
 

Bucky

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The lines we draw between childhood and adulthood are somewhat arbitrary. I know I was thinking and doing some pretty stupid things even at 25. I am not excusing the behavior. I am just trying to explain it.

Often times the people that are wearing blackface and showing respect or admiration for another black individual - Michael Jackson or Crazy Eyes.

131028153736-julianne-hough-blackface-halloween-story-top.jpg
 

ataraxia

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Often times the people that are wearing blackface and showing respect or admiration for another black individual - Michael Jackson or Crazy Eyes.

View attachment 67249969

Well not really. There is a style and manner of wearing blackface which, because of a very long history and tradition, has very specific derogatory meanings. I think we all know when blackface is not being done for respect or admiration. You would have to be very foreign to American culture to not know the difference.
 

noonereal

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There is absolutely nothing wrong with a non-black person in blackface.

This is objectively wrong.

You may be unclear as to why it's "wrong" (as I am) but you cannot say that "There is absolutely nothing wrong with a non-black person in blackface"
 

noonereal

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Well not really. There is a style and manner of wearing blackface which, because of a very long history and tradition, has very specific derogatory meanings. I think we all know when blackface is not being done for respect or admiration. You would have to be very foreign to American culture to not know the difference.

I don't, honest.

and what are these "specific derogatory meanings?"
 

Bucky

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Well not really. There is a style and manner of wearing blackface which, because of a very long history and tradition, has very specific derogatory meanings. I think we all know when blackface is not being done for respect or admiration. You would have to be very foreign to American culture to not know the difference.

I am not aware of these rules for respect or admiration. Please elaborate.
 

Hawkeye10

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The lines we draw between childhood and adulthood are somewhat arbitrary. I guess they are necessary for legal purposes. But I know I was thinking and doing some pretty stupid things even at 25. I am not excusing the behavior. I am just trying to explain it.

Thank you for that.

Were you in America at the time and have you ever seen BlackFace?

Maybe in the South this was one or three steps deeper into edgy than picking up the Rebel Flag and raising Hell, which though I have barely ever been in the South I know was common for many decades....but I note that doing that was certainly tied up in Southern Pride, it was not all breaking the rules for the sake of breaking the rules, in fact flying the Rebel Flag was not considered to be breaking the rules at all till recently....it was more of a lifestyle symbol.
 
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ataraxia

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I don't, honest.

and what are these "specific derogatory meanings?"

Seriously? Did you grow up in the US?

(Sigh) I guess we will have to tell you a little bit about American history and culture, from the ground up then, I guess...

"Blackface is a form of theatrical make-up used predominantly by non-black performers to represent a caricature of a black person. The practice gained popularity during the 19th century and contributed to the spread of racial stereotypes such as the "happy-go-lucky darky on the plantation" or the "dandified coon".[1] By the middle of the century, blackface minstrel shows had become a distinctive American artform, translating formal works such as opera into popular terms for a general audience.[2] Early in the 20th century, blackface branched off from the minstrel show and became a form in its own right.[3] In the United States, blackface had largely fallen out of favor by the turn of the 21st century, and is now generally considered offensive and disrespectful...

As a result, the genre played an important role in shaping perceptions of and prejudices about black people generally and African Americans in particular. Some social commentators have stated that blackface provided an outlet for white peoples’ fear of the unknown and the unfamiliar, and a socially acceptable way of expressing their feelings and fears about race and control. Writes Eric Lott in Love and Theft: Blackface Minstrelsy and the American Working Class, "The black mask offered a way to play with the collective fears of a degraded and threatening – and male – Other while at the same time maintaining some symbolic control over them."[39]

Blackface, at least initially, could also give voice to an oppositional dynamic that was prohibited by society. As early as 1832, a blacked-up Thomas D. Rice was singing, "An' I caution all white dandies not to come in my way, / For if dey insult me, dey'll in de gutter lay."...Blackface makeup was largely eliminated even from live film comedy in the U.S. after the end of the 1930s, when public sensibilities regarding race began to change and blackface became increasingly associated with racism and bigotry.[43"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackface
 

ataraxia

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I am not aware of these rules for respect or admiration. Please elaborate.

See my post above regarding the history and tradition of blackface, and what it has come to mean in American culture.
 

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Seriously? Did you grow up in the US?

(Sigh) I guess we will have to tell you a little bit about American history and culture, from the ground up then, I guess...

Yes, seriously and yes, I grew up in the USA.

Sigh all you like, that is the problem, arrogant fools.

This is horse ****, just an FYI.
 

ataraxia

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Thank you for that.

Were you in America at the time and have you ever seen BlackFace?

Maybe in the South this one one or three steps deeper into edgy than picking up the Rebel Flag and raising Hell, which though I have barely ever been in the South I know was common for many decades....but I note that doing that was certainly tied up in Southern Pride, it was not all breaking the rules for the sake of breaking the rules, in fact flying the Rebel Flag was not considered to be breaking the rules at all till recently....it was more of a lifestyle symbol.

Certainly the meaning and significance of symbols change in a culture over time. By the 1980s, at least here in the US, blackface was generally considered a symbol of bigotry, in very poor taste if not completely unacceptable, and was not considered funny or benign.
 
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ataraxia

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Yes, seriously and yes, I grew up in the USA.

Sigh all you like, that is the problem, arrogant fools.

This is horse ****, just an FYI.

So you are saying that since the 1930s, blackface has not been generally considered offensive and in poor taste, if not outright unacceptable?

You can't argue with the meaning that society gives to various things. That's like trying to argue that society doesn't really know the meaning of the word "yes", only you do. Some things are just socially defined. You can't argue with it because you don't like it. It is what it is.
 

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Maybe 70's as well, it was clearly a thing in some places, the University for sure. Was this edgy fun like a Pimps and Hoes party? I never saw any blackface and never heard anyone talking about blackface that I can recall, nor can I imagine any of the people that I hung with being interested in that, so I am trying to understand what this was all about.

Pimps and Hoes parties I certainly saw, one has to wonder if photos of people taking part with be next evidence of lack of purity used to ruin people.


I can't speak to the culture and cultural norms of whole segments of the population. What I can say is that UVA is rarefied among state schools. For one thing it doesn't feel like a state school. It's academically quite good, and socially it's very Southern, elite and loaded with exclusivity much as one finds at northern Ivy League schools, particularly Harvard, Yale and Princeton. The school has chapters of KA Order, SAE, St. A's, and St. Elmo's, along with several secret societies, and an entrenched campus-wide socio-political hierarchy; and AFAIK, none of the Greek letter organizations and secret societies (at UVA; things may be different at other schools) admitted or considered admitting non-whites, and, frankly, they were very selective about the white folks they'll consider/admit. To put it another way, back then, UVA and Ole Miss weren't all that different culturally.

In my undergrad years, it wasn't as though everybody did some sort of racially reprehensible thing so overt and extreme as donning blackface (or a KKK robe), but neither was that so uncommon or so scorned that one can say one hadn't seen someone do it and ape/hype African-American stereotypes while dressed that way.

Red:
Props for trying to understand. That's more than many bother to do.

From my own observation, it was about one thing: having fun at the expense of Black folks. It seemed to me the nature of the so-called fun definitely spanned a range of intents -- from mimicking Black stereotypes to which the actor ascribed and getting laughs for doing so, to expressly deriding Blacks -- none of which were laudable or excusable because by that point in one's life, one is supposed to know better than to disrespect other people that way and by reference to vulgar stereotypes.
 

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This is the same bs from people that say white people cannot dress up as black panther.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a non-black person in blackface.

Dress up as "Black Panther" if one wants, but one doesn't need face paint to do so. There're plenty of non-skin-color cues that'll tell folks that's the character one is.


4413.Jpg



529600._SX1280_QL80_TTD_.jpg
 

Hawkeye10

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I can't speak to the culture and cultural norms of whole segments of the population. What I can say is that UVA is rarefied among state schools. For one thing it doesn't feel like a state school. It's academically quite good, and socially it's very Southern, elite and loaded with exclusivity much as one finds at northern Ivy League schools, particularly Harvard, Yale and Princeton. The school has chapters of KA Order, SAE, St. A's, and St. Elmo's, along with several secret societies, and an entrenched campus-wide socio-political hierarchy; and AFAIK, none of the Greek letter organizations and secret societies (at UVA; things may be different at other schools) admitted or considered admitting non-whites, and, frankly, they were very selective about the white folks they'll consider/admit. To put it another way, back then, UVA and Ole Miss weren't all that different culturally.

In my undergrad years, it wasn't as though everybody did some sort of racially reprehensible thing so overt and extreme as donning blackface (or a KKK robe), but neither was that so uncommon or so scorned that one can say one hadn't seen someone do it and ape/hype African-American stereotypes while dressed that way.

Red:
Props for trying to understand. That's more than many bother to do.

From my own observation, it was about one thing: having fun at the expense of Black folks. It seemed to me the nature of the so-called fun definitely spanned a range of intents -- from mimicking Black stereotypes to which the actor ascribed and getting laughs for doing so, to expressly deriding Blacks -- none of which were laudable or excusable because by that point in one's life, one is supposed to know better than to disrespect other people that way and by reference to vulgar stereotypes.

Where did you go to school, and how much time have you spent in the South. This thing with Blackface was clearly not just one school or one state, it was at the very least a thing during some years in multiple southern states, though so far I dont know that anyone other than the elite youth did it. If this is so then your explanation does not cut it, because if it was intended to be anti-black all classes could have been expected to do it. "We are so cool that we can do this and still feel good about ourselves...We are educated elites!" makes more sense than your explanation from what I have seen so far.

And yes, DP has become a very depressing place of late, even people who I respected have turned into slime.

Not you though, you have gone up in my estimation.
 

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This is the same bs from people that say white people cannot dress up as black panther.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a non-black person in blackface.

I saw several white kids dressed as Black Panther during Halloween. None were wearing black face.
 
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