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What the hell Congress

Wiseone

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As most of us know the House recently passed a Republican drafted bill that would continue to fund the government but defund Obamacare as well, the idea is to force Senate Dems and the President into a tight spot by making them choose between either defunding Obamacare or allowing the government to shut down, in addition to drumming up the conservative base.

What you may not know is that Senate Republicans with Ted Cruz in the lead are planning to filibuster the House bill which funds the government but defunds Obamacare. That's right, Senate Republicans will try to prevent any vote on the House Republican bill which defunds Obamacare. Why? Because since the Senate has a Dem majority if the bill is allowed to have amendments voted on it they will vote to fund Obamacare again.

What this means is that unless the situation changes there's no way to avoid a government shut down, because Congress can neither pass nor reject the House Republican's bill due to the actions of Congress Republicans. Senate Dems could not defund Obamacare even if they wanted to pass the House bill because voting would be blocked on it if enough Senate Republicans back the filibuster.

Cruz Turns Obamacare Defunding Plan to Fiasco -- Daily Intelligencer

And somehow through all of this the Republicans are blaming Obama through all of this although its fully on the Congress to pass a law for the President to sign, he has no role in this until Congress passes a law which is now likely impossible since Republicans in the Senate have blocked any vote on anything.
 
As most of us know the House recently passed a Republican drafted bill that would continue to fund the government but defund Obamacare as well, the idea is to force Senate Dems and the President into a tight spot by making them choose between either defunding Obamacare or allowing the government to shut down, in addition to drumming up the conservative base.

What you may not know is that Senate Republicans with Ted Cruz in the lead are planning to filibuster the House bill which funds the government but defunds Obamacare. That's right, Senate Republicans will try to prevent any vote on the House Republican bill which defunds Obamacare. Why? Because since the Senate has a Dem majority if the bill is allowed to have amendments voted on it they will vote to fund Obamacare again.

What this means is that unless the situation changes there's no way to avoid a government shut down, because Congress can neither pass nor reject the House Republican's bill due to the actions of Congress Republicans. Senate Dems could not defund Obamacare even if they wanted to pass the House bill because voting would be blocked on it if enough Senate Republicans back the filibuster.

Cruz Turns Obamacare Defunding Plan to Fiasco -- Daily Intelligencer

And somehow through all of this the Republicans are blaming Obama through all of this although its fully on the Congress to pass a law for the President to sign, he has no role in this until Congress passes a law which is now likely impossible since Republicans in the Senate have blocked any vote on anything.

It's just more of the game of brinksmanship. There will be a last minute rescue that both parties will a) claim credit for or b) claim it was the other guys fault and their hands are clean.

They seem to enjoy this and by creating a little market insecurity, they can make a few bucks since they know the outcome and we can only speculate. Plus, they get some headlines. If you've set your sights on even further elevation in the political circus, name recognition is paramount.

The nation awaits breathlessly....:confused:
 
It's just more of the game of brinksmanship. There will be a last minute rescue that both parties will a) claim credit for or b) claim it was the other guys fault and their hands are clean.

They seem to enjoy this and by creating a little market insecurity, they can make a few bucks since they know the outcome and we can only speculate. Plus, they get some headlines. If you've set your sights on even further elevation in the political circus, name recognition is paramount.

The nation awaits breathlessly....:confused:

While you're right about most of this, although the sequester went into affect despite most predictions that it would be halted at the last minute, and all of this has become so commonplace that we mostly accept it, I still don't see any of it as any excuse whatsoever.
 
Yeah...I mean its not like democrats did this sort of thing to ram through that abortion of legislation known as Obamacare in the first place. Playing politics? I mean...WTF republicans? Why cant you be more like democrats?
 
While you're right about most of this, although the sequester went into affect despite most predictions that it would be halted at the last minute, and all of this has become so commonplace that we mostly accept it, I still don't see any of it as any excuse whatsoever.

You're right about the sequester and that created a lot of bad behavior although it seems that the ship of state is still afloat. And of course, my predictions are always suspect. Now, an actual shut-down would be very interesting, I would imagine short-lived since it won't take too very long for people to get really pissed off. Still, I feel its too serious for even this gaggle of morons to allow of screwup of these proportions.

For a little while, we get to live in interesting times.
 
As most of us know the House recently passed a Republican drafted bill that would continue to fund the government but defund Obamacare as well, the idea is to force Senate Dems and the President into a tight spot by making them choose between either defunding Obamacare or allowing the government to shut down, in addition to drumming up the conservative base.

What you may not know is that Senate Republicans with Ted Cruz in the lead are planning to filibuster the House bill which funds the government but defunds Obamacare. That's right, Senate Republicans will try to prevent any vote on the House Republican bill which defunds Obamacare. Why? Because since the Senate has a Dem majority if the bill is allowed to have amendments voted on it they will vote to fund Obamacare again.

What this means is that unless the situation changes there's no way to avoid a government shut down, because Congress can neither pass nor reject the House Republican's bill due to the actions of Congress Republicans. Senate Dems could not defund Obamacare even if they wanted to pass the House bill because voting would be blocked on it if enough Senate Republicans back the filibuster.

Cruz Turns Obamacare Defunding Plan to Fiasco -- Daily Intelligencer

And somehow through all of this the Republicans are blaming Obama through all of this although its fully on the Congress to pass a law for the President to sign, he has no role in this until Congress passes a law which is now likely impossible since Republicans in the Senate have blocked any vote on anything.

I think the highlighted statement is incorrect. One way to avoid a government shut down would be if the Democrats pass the House bill...as is. If that happens, Cruz will have no reason to filibuster. As the article says, he will filibuster to prevent Democrats from amending the legislation.

Of course, in reality, the Democrats will never allow the Republicans to get their way so we can, in fact, expect a government shut down with the resulting blame game that is sure to follow.
 
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So the republicans took a ****ty play out of the democrat playbook?

I wish they wouldn't stoop to their level, but I guess it takes a child to fight a child.
 
You're right about the sequester and that created a lot of bad behavior although it seems that the ship of state is still afloat. And of course, my predictions are always suspect. Now, an actual shut-down would be very interesting, I would imagine short-lived since it won't take too very long for people to get really pissed off. Still, I feel its too serious for even this gaggle of morons to allow of screwup of these proportions.

For a little while, we get to live in interesting times.

I think we can rely on the reality that a government shutdown will interfere with a number of things reps make profit on. The old school ones who are not fundamentalist loony birds will come around because simply they do not want to damage their money. I have this small suspicion they are allowing the tea party and radicals to get this far simply because they are already spinning the backlash onto them. Educate a few of the tea party's financial backers to avoid fundamentalism that would damage their wealth, and then float the radicals off into a new pointless party while they shift more moderate and pretend it was everybody else. oh, and not to mention they will make some money on the stock market dip. If they do it right it is win win for them. they profit off the fear, vent the crazies, and pull back some moderates by playing hero and sliding towards the middle. The only question is if they can actually do it, and how far it will pull them into the next presidency and 2014. they have to separate the tea party into a pointless third party so they can reign in their own people. If the tea party becomes a loser many rqadicals will vote republican even if it is moderate simply to spite the dems, but they have to cripple the tea party first.

I would be amazed by some real long term shutdown.
 
The fact that Congress exempted itself from Obamacare is reason enough to defund it.
 
So the republicans took a ****ty play out of the democrat playbook?

I wish they wouldn't stoop to their level, but I guess it takes a child to fight a child.

There's no excuse for this kind of behavior, especially not "he did it first."

The fact that Congress exempted itself from Obamacare is reason enough to defund it.

You are completely wrong.

PolitiFact Ohio | Did members of Congress exempt themselves from complying with the health care reform laws?
 
Yeah...I mean its not like democrats did this sort of thing to ram through that abortion of legislation known as Obamacare in the first place. Playing politics? I mean...WTF republicans? Why cant you be more like democrats?

So because Democrats also pull these kind of stunts sometimes means its OK for the Republicans to do it? How is this an excuse, its bad behavior no matter who does it and making a special excuse because "they did it too" doesn't justify anything.
 
There's no excuse for this kind of behavior, especially not "he did it first."

No, and I don't like the republicans either. I just find it rather ridiculous that the leftists of all people want to cry about this tactic, when they're the mother ****ers who invented it. (not calling you a leftist)
 
No, and I don't like the republicans either. I just find it rather ridiculous that the leftists of all people want to cry about this tactic, when they're the mother ****ers who invented it. (not calling you a leftist)

Good I'm glad you don't tolerate bull**** in government regardless of who does it, good going having a standard for behavior independent of partisan loyalties
 
So because Democrats also pull these kind of stunts sometimes means its OK for the Republicans to do it? How is this an excuse, its bad behavior no matter who does it and making a special excuse because "they did it too" doesn't justify anything.
Of COURSE. Its POLITICS. Its what politicians DO. What I am absolutely STUNNED about is that YOU would see the one side doing it and feel the need to express your outrage. Its so...so...faux.
 
Of COURSE. Its POLITICS. Its what politicians DO. What I am absolutely STUNNED about is that YOU would see the one side doing it and feel the need to express your outrage. Its so...so...faux.

We should expect more out of our politicians. And trust me this isn't a Rep/Dem, but when a party sets up a situation to effectively force a government shut down? Ya I'm going to be upset about that, you should too.
 
We should expect more out of our politicians. And trust me this isn't a Rep/Dem, but when a party sets up a situation to effectively force a government shut down? Ya I'm going to be upset about that, you should too.

Yeah...I'm surprised the Democrats haven't rolled over and admitted defeat on this issue like the Republicans have so many times in the past. It would be the right thing for them to do...for the sake of our country and all.
 
Yeah...I'm surprised the Democrats haven't rolled over and admitted defeat on this issue like the Republicans have so many times in the past. It would be the right thing for them to do...for the sake of our country and all.

I think you're still unaware that without being able to vote on the House bill that neither the President nor Senate Dems could "roll over and admit defeat" since passing the House law would require a vote in the Senate which is currently being blocked by Republicans...
 
We should expect more out of our politicians. And trust me this isn't a Rep/Dem, but when a party sets up a situation to effectively force a government shut down? Ya I'm going to be upset about that, you should too.
They arent forcing a shutdown. All the dems have to do is agree to defund Obamacare and the government stays open. And lets be very honest...political points aside, thats what the democrats WANT. They dont WANT Obamacare to be enacted. They have been begging to suspend the business mandate and once private citizens get their feel for what it actually looks like...they will hate it too. Democrats arent running on "Obamacare is GOOD", they are running on "evil republicans hate you and want to deny you healthcare". If the GOP was being truly political and diabolical, they would have let that POS go into full effect.

The only threat of a shutdown will now come with democrats INSISTING that Obamacare must be funded and go forward...even though they dont WANT it to. How corrupt and inane is THAT?
 
I think we can rely on the reality that a government shutdown will interfere with a number of things reps make profit on. The old school ones who are not fundamentalist loony birds will come around because simply they do not want to damage their money. I have this small suspicion they are allowing the tea party and radicals to get this far simply because they are already spinning the backlash onto them. Educate a few of the tea party's financial backers to avoid fundamentalism that would damage their wealth, and then float the radicals off into a new pointless party while they shift more moderate and pretend it was everybody else. oh, and not to mention they will make some money on the stock market dip. If they do it right it is win win for them. they profit off the fear, vent the crazies, and pull back some moderates by playing hero and sliding towards the middle. The only question is if they can actually do it, and how far it will pull them into the next presidency and 2014. they have to separate the tea party into a pointless third party so they can reign in their own people. If the tea party becomes a loser many rqadicals will vote republican even if it is moderate simply to spite the dems, but they have to cripple the tea party first.

I would be amazed by some real long term shutdown.

I feel the same as you do but I am morally certain that this maneuvering is not limited to Republicans. There are many Democrats who will profit equally. This isn't d vs. R. This is Congress vs. America.

They are both using the Tea Party as a tool for their own benefit. Shameful, but hardly surprising. Politicians don't invest in victory to alter the course of the people. They invest (using OP money) to gain their positions to benefit their networks. Since most of them do this, they dare not point any fingers.

Showbusiness. The show must go on. The rubes can't see what's behind the curtain.
 
They arent forcing a shutdown. All the dems have to do is agree to defund Obamacare and the government stays open. And lets be very honest...political points aside, thats what the democrats WANT. They dont WANT Obamacare to be enacted. They have been begging to suspend the business mandate and once private citizens get their feel for what it actually looks like...they will hate it too. Democrats arent running on "Obamacare is GOOD", they are running on "evil republicans hate you and want to deny you healthcare". If the GOP was being truly political and diabolical, they would have let that POS go into full effect.

The only threat of a shutdown will now come with democrats INSISTING that Obamacare must be funded and go forward...even though they dont WANT it to. How corrupt and inane is THAT?

They can't vote either way with a filibuster going on. Also if they all really wanted to defund it, why haven't they defunded it yet?

And lets not forget the fact that House deliberately passed a bill which they knew would not be passed in the Senate.
 
I think you're still unaware that without being able to vote on the House bill that neither the President nor Senate Dems could "roll over and admit defeat" since passing the House law would require a vote in the Senate which is currently being blocked by Republicans...

Oh...maybe you are right.

Are you saying the Senate is unable to decide to vote on the House bill straight up...without adding amendments? Does Reid not have the ability to call a vote on the bill...as is?
 
They can't vote either way with a filibuster going on. Also if they all really wanted to defund it, why haven't they defunded it yet?

And lets not forget the fact that House deliberately passed a bill which they knew would not be passed in the Senate.
Holy ****...its almost like the house GOP is doing the same thing democrats do! I'd bet even money you have never once started a thread bitching about that. And no...I DONT wonder why that is.

So by YOUR thought process, the opposition should just sit back and let them do what they did when they passed that obamanation the first time. Brilliant. Self serving as ****...but brilliant.
 
Oh...maybe you are right.

Are you saying the Senate is unable to decide to vote on the House bill straight up...without adding amendments? Does Reid not have the ability to call a vote on the bill...as is?
No...he is saying...well gosh...maybe they would...ya never know. Wink wink. But just like they had to pass the bill to know what was IN the bill (cuz...what representative has time to actually RAED what they are voting for) you have to let the democrats do what they are going to do to know if they really would. Ironically...he is clamoring for the dem majority Senate to be able to do what it is going to do while objecting to the majority party in the house doing the same thing.
 
Oh...maybe you are right.

Are you saying the Senate is unable to decide to vote on the House bill straight up...without adding amendments? Does Reid not have the ability to call a vote on the bill...as is?

If 41 Senators decide to join the filibuster, no he doesn't have the ability to call a vote. That's what a filibuster is.

Holy ****...its almost like the house GOP is doing the same thing democrats do! I'd bet even money you have never once started a thread bitching about that. And no...I DONT wonder why that is.

So by YOUR thought process, the opposition should just sit back and let them do what they did when they passed that obamanation the first time. Brilliant. Self serving as ****...but brilliant.

Again, I don't care about parties, I'm pissed off at the Republicans here because they are the ones causing this damn mess. Underhanded political tactics are a "no" in my book regardless of who does them.

The House can pass whatever bills it wants in an attempt to create or repeal the law it wants as it members vote, I've got no problem with the Senate and the House being at odds if they host majorities from different parties. I do have a problem with one party, doesn't matter which one although in this case it happens to be Republican, deliberately maneuvering to force a shut down of the government which would affect among many many other things an interruption of my pay along with just being a general stupid way to run a government which unlike a light blub can't just be turned on and off without consequence in the form of waste and inefficiency.

If the Senate Republicans can get enough support to filibuster the House bill they prevent all votes on it, ALL VOTES, includes votes to amend the bill, votes to reject the bill, votes to pass the bill, which means that even if the Dems wanted to pass it and defund Obamacare and even if the Congress had enough votes to form a 2/3s majority to override his veto they could not do it with the filibuster in place.

Shutting down the government to play politics with a bill that has no chance in hell of ever being passed? That's not good governance and I don't like it. Grand standing is something our government needs less not more of, so as noble and good as you may think it is to fight the "good fight" knowing full well that it cannot be won but still wanting to drag people through the mud, you cannot deny that this accomplishes nothing and will not accomplish anything.
 
If 41 Senators decide to join the filibuster, no he doesn't have the ability to call a vote. That's what a filibuster is.



Again, I don't care about parties, I'm pissed off at the Republicans here because they are the ones causing this damn mess. Underhanded political tactics are a "no" in my book regardless of who does them.

The House can pass whatever bills it wants in an attempt to create or repeal the law it wants as it members vote, I've got no problem with the Senate and the House being at odds if they host majorities from different parties. I do have a problem with one party, doesn't matter which one although in this case it happens to be Republican, deliberately maneuvering to force a shut down of the government which would affect among many many other things an interruption of my pay along with just being a general stupid way to run a government which unlike a light blub can't just be turned on and off without consequence in the form of waste and inefficiency.

If the Senate Republicans can get enough support to filibuster the House bill they prevent all votes on it, ALL VOTES, includes votes to amend the bill, votes to reject the bill, votes to pass the bill, which means that even if the Dems wanted to pass it and defund Obamacare and even if the Congress had enough votes to form a 2/3s majority to override his veto they could not do it with the filibuster in place.

Shutting down the government to play politics with a bill that has no chance in hell of ever being passed? That's not good governance and I don't like it. Grand standing is something our government needs less not more of, so as noble and good as you may think it is to fight the "good fight" knowing full well that it cannot be won but still wanting to drag people through the mud, you cannot deny that this accomplishes nothing and will not accomplish anything.
The only people that are on the hook for shutting down the government is Reid and the senate. Vote on the hosue bill as passed and everything is fine. Refuse to or stick more amendments in it...and they shut it down. The house already passed their plan and you bet...it defunded Obamacare. Democrats dont even want to see Obamacare implemented so the house did them a favor. But if you were a betting man, what are the odds Reid puts it back in on the legislation put before the senate? Be honest.
 
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