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What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?


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jamesrage

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What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane? Which of the following is okay with you, what is the limit in which you give up your 4th amendment rights?


Invasive pat downs
Non invasive pat downs.
Subjected to radiation so you and or your children can be virtually stripped searched.
Real strip searches.
Cavity search.
Walking through a metal detector.
other
 
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MaggieD

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What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane?

invasive pat downs
Non invasive pat downs.
subjected to radiation so you and or your children can be virtually stripped searched.
Cavity search.
walking through a metal detector.
other

Of course, you know your options are loaded. I don't have to tell you that.

So, I'll change them to suit myself. ;-)

Metal detector....everybody.
X-Ray of all carry-ons....everybody.
Additional screening based upon profiling:
Full body scan or --
A pat down as done by police officers when searching for weapons, sans the cavity search.
 

jamesrage

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Of course, you know your options are loaded. I don't have to tell you that.

So, I'll change them to suit myself. ;-)

Metal detector....everybody.
X-Ray of all carry-ons....everybody.
Additional screening based upon profiling:
Full body scan or --
A pat down as done by police officers when searching for weapons, sans the cavity search.

How are my options loaded? Are you saying those things are false? Are you saying the full body scans are not virutal strip searches and that you are not being subjected to radiation? Are you saying the pat downs are not invasive? Or do you just want more politically correct language to justify those things?
 
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MaggieD

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How are my options loaded? Are you saying those things are false? Are you saying the full body scans are not virutal strip searches and that you are not being subjected to radiation? Are you saying the pat downs are not invasive? Or do you just want more politically correct language to justify those things?

I'd like the emotion taken out of them, JamesRage. I'm not going to argue sematics with you. Disregard what I said. You have my answer.
 

jamesrage

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I'd like the emotion taken out of them, JamesRage. I'm not going to argue sematics with you. Disregard what I said. You have my answer.

So you are saying that when you walk through a full body scanner that you are not being subjected to a virtual strip search and radiation and that the pat downs are not evasive? What do you have against calling a spade a spade? It seems that if call it what it is then more and more people will be against such things. Perhaps that is why you are against calling a spade a spade.
 
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Paschendale

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We had more than enough searching of passengers twenty years ago. Those who are truly dedicated to smuggling things can and always will succeed, and the common idiot is deterred from trying. For those who cite 9/11 as a good reason to expand airport security, the honest truth is that it won't happen again. And it has nothing to do with security. If faced with a hijacker armed with a box cutter, passengers will not longer sit by and wait to be ransomed. They will fight back violently. Simply locking the door to the cockpit and making passengers aware that they need to fight back is all the expanded security we need.

We can't catch every possible person who may not be wanted on an airplane, and attempting to do so grossly infringes on our privacy and our freedoms. All of the fear mongering doesn't help us live safer lives. It just makes us more easily pressured to give up even more rights. Nor should we be singling out Arab-looking people to mess with. Most people are innocent, regardless of skin color or religion. Most terrorist acts in the US were committed by white Americans, not foreigners.
 

Kandahar

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I don't really mind the regular metal detectors, although I doubt they do much good. Anything more invasive than that is silly. I ride the metro every day without passing through any security checkpoints whatsoever, and so far no one has tried to kill me.
 

Laila

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Metal detector. That is all I would accept.

If the thing beeps more than once then I would accept being patted down by a officer of the same sex as long as they are aware that no fondling or groping is on the cards

Edit: The one thing I would never accept is that full body scan. Too far
I'll take my chances with the terrorists especially considering I have a higher chance of being run over
 
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Jucon

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Just because I know I'm innocent does not mean that someone who has never met me before knows 100% that I am innocent. The last time I was at the airport a TSA officer asked me to step aside to further search my bag, and I thought nothing of it. I'm happy he was doing his job. As for pat downs, I'm not one to be super sensitive about a professional person just doing their job. I wouldn't object to a pat down from a police officer to prove I'm no danger, and I would not object to a TSA officer either. And the same thing goes for the "virtually strip searched machines". What's the big freaking deal? Are people that sensitive about others seeing their silver parts? I can understand some people having religious complaints, but otherwise I just don't get why people are so sensitive about their anonymous silver junk being seen on a TV screen for 15-20 seconds by a professional TSA officer.
 
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jamesrage

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Just because I know I'm innocent does not mean that someone who has never met me before knows 100% that I am innocent. The last time I was at the airport a TSA officer asked me to step aside to further search my bag, and I thought nothing of it. I'm happy he was doing his job. As for pat downs, I'm not one to be super sensitive about a professional person just doing their job. I wouldn't object to a pat down from a police officer to prove I'm no danger, and I would not object to a TSA officer either. And the same thing goes for the "virtually strip searched machines".

Today its just virtual strip searches tomorrow it could be the real thing, random cavity searches and this being implemented in Bus stations,highways and other places. You may love the idea of getting people used to their rights being forked over and living in a police state, I do not.

What's the big freaking deal? Are people that sensitive about others seeing their silver parts? I can understand some people having religious complaints, but otherwise I just don't get why people are so sensitive about their anonymous silver junk being seen on a TV screen for 15-20 seconds by a professional TSA officer.

So you wouldn't mind if it was your 13 year old daughter(I believe 12 and under are not subjected to the virtual strip searches), niece or little sister's silver anonymous silver junk being seen on a TV screen for 15-20 seconds by a professional TSA officer.
 
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d0gbreath

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Just put up a big sign and a bell button. Have the sign read "Push button to enter aircraft" in Arabic. Take the button pushers to a room and read "The Pet Goat" to them in English. Anyone sitting through the whole story should be promptly arrested.
 

Jucon

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Today its just virtual strip searches tomorrow it could be the real thing, random cavity searches and this being implemented in Bus stations,highways and other places. You may love the idea of getting people used to their rights being forked over and living in a police state, I do not.



So you wouldn't mind if it was your 13 year old daughter(I believe 12 and under are not subjected to the virtual strip searches), niece or little sister's silver anonymous silver junk being seen on a TV screen for 15-20 seconds by a professional TSA officer.

I'm not one to believe every slippery slope theory I hear. Nor am I one to believe everyone watching those TV screens is a deviant.
 

Coronado

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I think we should waterboard everyone wishing to get on an airplane. It's not torture, so we're good there, and if you're innocent you've got absolutely nothing to fear!
 

ricksfolly

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What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane? Which of the following is okay with you, what is the limit in which you give up your 4th amendment rights?


Invasive pat downs
Non invasive pat downs.
Subjected to radiation so you and or your children can be virtually stripped searched.
Real strip searches.
Cavity search.
Walking through a metal detector.
other

Cavity searches are going way too far, even if it does feel good.

Uh, who draws the line on non-invasive pat downs? Is face slapping permissible?

Does bump and grind music accompany strip searches?

ricksfolly
 

Tashah

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The El Al airport procedures and in-flight safeguards work for me.

In addition, all El Al passenger aircraft are equipped with an anti-missile system.
 

Coronado

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The El Al airport procedures and in-flight safeguards work for me.

In addition, all El Al passenger aircraft are equipped with an anti-missile system.
Wasn't the last hijacking of an El Al aircraft the one back in 1976?
 
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Gipper

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I'd defer to Tashah on this one. Whatever Israel does, they do a damned good job of it.

I would be good with metal detectors, non-invasive patdowns, minimal profiling, and one option not mentioned - air marshals on international flights. Armed ones. Ones that won't have any qualms about putting a bullet in the back of your head if you don't do as you're told.
 

Whovian

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as long as I get from point A to point B without being blown up or becoming a hostage... how far would you like be to bend over?
 

pbrauer

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as long as I get from point A to point B without being blown up or becoming a hostage... how far would you like be to bend over?

Sounds like you are looking for new love in your life. There is nothing that can be done to insure your safety, that's life.

Israeli has the best method.
 

Ikari

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Metal detectors, scanning luggage, non-invasive pat downs are all ok. Anything else is just overreaction and won't significantly increase any "security" concern.
 

OscarB63

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Metal detectors, scanning luggage, non-invasive pat downs are all ok. Anything else is just overreaction and won't significantly increase any "security" concern.

agreed. however, if the results of any of these scans raise concerns, you should submit to further scrutiny.

If the x-ray shows a suspicious object in your bag, you should have to open it.
If you set off the metal detector, you should be wanded to localize the source and explain what it is.

I have screws in my shoulder. I set off the detector every time. I step aside, they wand me, it beeps at my shoulder. I raise my arm to show I don't have a weapon hidden in my armpit and go about my merry way. Most of the time I will advise the screeners in advance and just skip the metal detector and go straight to the wanding.

I really don't see what "freedoms" are being impinged on. If you don't want the TSA feeling up your junk....don't freakin carry metal objects in your damn pockets.
 

deb

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I guess it's going to depend on how badly I want to fly to my destination.

I have no objection to profiling - but at some point terrorists are going to figure out that certain people aren't detained and they will "recruit" one of those people to do their bidding.

Additional security personnel on a plane would be beneficial if the terrorist draws a weapon and attempts to overtake the plane - but an armed marshal will be blown up the same as anyone else if explosives are detonated in mid air.

I do believe that the x-rays and invasive pat downs cross the line into unreasonable search and seizure unless there is probable cause. We, as citizens of the U.S. are protected from the unreasonable search and seizure by the fourth amendment. I have to agree with the Ben Franklin quote "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Read Sun Tzu's The Art of War. "Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected." We have certainly become so politically correct that effective profiling would not be expected by the terrorists - So profile away!

The x-rays and pat downs merely make examples of U.S. citizens and at best keep the airlines from being sued for discrimination. Common sense warrants discrimination.
 

Kal'Stang

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What should you be subjected to in order to fly on airplane? Which of the following is okay with you, what is the limit in which you give up your 4th amendment rights?


Invasive pat downs
Non invasive pat downs.
Subjected to radiation so you and or your children can be virtually stripped searched.
Real strip searches.
Cavity search.
Walking through a metal detector.
other

MaggieD is correct. Your options are loaded. To the brim.
 

Kal'Stang

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We had more than enough searching of passengers twenty years ago. Those who are truly dedicated to smuggling things can and always will succeed, and the common idiot is deterred from trying. For those who cite 9/11 as a good reason to expand airport security, the honest truth is that it won't happen again. And it has nothing to do with security. If faced with a hijacker armed with a box cutter, passengers will not longer sit by and wait to be ransomed. They will fight back violently. Simply locking the door to the cockpit and making passengers aware that they need to fight back is all the expanded security we need.

We can't catch every possible person who may not be wanted on an airplane, and attempting to do so grossly infringes on our privacy and our freedoms. All of the fear mongering doesn't help us live safer lives. It just makes us more easily pressured to give up even more rights. Nor should we be singling out Arab-looking people to mess with. Most people are innocent, regardless of skin color or religion. Most terrorist acts in the US were committed by white Americans, not foreigners.

I'm sure that people thought that the US wouldn't be attacked again after pearl harbor also. And then 9/11 comes along. So I wouldn't say that it will never happen again. There will always be nutjobs willing to give it a try. And odds are they will eventually succeed.

Also just because a determined person will find a way around the security measures or the fact that we can't catch everyone does not mean that we should just give up trying to counter them. To do so would be the equivalent of just stop trying to enforce murder charges.

And you are not forced to give up ANY rights. No one is forcing you to go through all the security measures and get on that plane. There are other options available to you. Options that don't require the use of those security measures. Use em. Flying is not a right. It is a service provided by companies. And strictly regulated by the government because of the dangerous possibilities that are inheirant in planes that are bigger than a house and weighs just as much or more than said house.
 
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