What should we do in Iraq? (1 Viewer)

[Goobieman]

Second, I still don't see what's wrong with changing your mind after recieving more information (Kerry).

Assuming what NP posted regarding Kerry is accurate:

Last week speaking in front of some whacko left wing group he said he made a mistake in his vote to go to war in Iraq and now wants to be out of there by the end of the year
Well now he has changed that and says to be out the middle of 2007

I find it hard to believe that enough 'new information' would have surfaced over a single week to bring Kerry to change his mind -that- much.

No, its far more likely he changed his position to fit his audience, and little else.

 

[afr0byte]

this poll was created by a troll ~ Somebody looking to incite rather then debate

Yeah, I see a lot of those polls by some of our right wing members here. Fortunately, even though I disagree with you on some (most?) issues, you actually debate.

 

[afr0byte]

Assuming what NP posted regarding Kerry is accurate:

Last week speaking in front of some whacko left wing group he said he made a mistake in his vote to go to war in Iraq and now wants to be out of there by the end of the year
Well now he has changed that and says to be out the middle of 2007

I find it hard to believe that enough 'new information' would have surfaced over a single week to bring Kerry to change his mind -that- much.

No, its far more likely he changed his position to fit his audience, and little else.

I don't see how 6 months is "-that- much" considering we've been there for over 3 years already. Plus, you don't know what information he recieved.

 

[Goobieman]

I don't see how 6 months is "-that- much" considering we've been there for over 3 years already. Plus, you don't know what information he recieved.

Adding 6 months to 6 months is a 100% increase in his estimate.. Something caused him to change his mind since last week; I haven't see anything that happened in Iraq to warrant a 100% increase in the time I might think our troops need to stay. Have you?

 

[Deegan]

Let's see one through, we have not since WW2, let's just try and finish this to the best of our ability. I believe we will have a good friend in Iraq if we do, but if we leave them with this mess, they will grow to resent this country. I also believe that they will become a great trading partner, God knows we could always use more oil, and these proud people will want to return the favor, I honestly believe that.

When should we leave, when, and only when they feel confident they can take the controls. That said, we also need to focus on the reconstruction efforts, go from a fighting force, to a rebuilding force. All this will take time, money, and sadly, more lives, but I believe it's worth it.

 

[zymurgy]

Adding 6 months to 6 months is a 100% increase in his estimate.. Something caused him to change his mind since last week; I haven't see anything that happened in Iraq to warrant a 100% increase in the time I might think our troops need to stay. Have you?

Other then killing the top guy and gaining a wealth of intelligence, which likely hasn't been shared with the general populace.

Other then that trivial event, no, nothing at all.

 

[Goobieman]

Other then killing the top guy and gaining a wealth of intelligence, which likely hasn't been shared with the general populace.
Other then that trivial event, no, nothing at all.

Ok... but why would that -good news- prompt us to stay longer, especially given that the intel we did get from AZ has led to hundreds of raids and hundreds of captuured/killed bad guys?

Why is it so difficult to believe that he changed his estimate based on his audience?

 

[Navy Pride]

The complete victory has already been attained.

Saddam is gone and the people are largely responsible for their own fate.

But again, when did isolationism and the complete rejction of social platforms become a liberalism?

Is everybody that disagrees with you a liberal?

Wrong again......a complete victory in Iraq is when the Iraqis can stand up and defend themselves.........

If you look at the results of the poll you will see that only liberals voted to cut and run so you do the math.........

 

[Navy Pride]

I don't see how 6 months is "-that- much" considering we've been there for over 3 years already. Plus, you don't know what information he recieved.

Yeah but next month he will flip flop again depending who he is talking too and be for the war..........

I can still hear his words......."I voted for the 87 billion after I voted against it." And this clown is the leader of your party............Sad........

 

[::Major_Baker::]

Wrong again......a complete victory in Iraq is when the Iraqis can stand up and defend themselves.........

If you look at the results of the poll you will see that only liberals voted to cut and run so you do the math.........

NP, your poll is horseshit. We voted like that to mock you.

 

[Volker]

Wrong again......a complete victory in Iraq is when the Iraqis can stand up and defend themselves.........

If you look at the results of the poll you will see that only liberals voted to cut and run so you do the math.........

I am not a liberal either.

 

[Navy Pride]

NP, your poll is horseshit. We voted like that to mock you.

Sure you did my left wing friend.........:rofl

 

[Navy Pride]

I am not a liberal either.

Liberal here in the U.S. is defined differently then it is in Europe.........

 

[zymurgy]

Liberal here in the U.S. is defined differently then it is in Europe.........

Agreed.

Welfare, foreign or domestic is liberal. Using tax dollars to liberate foreign lands is liberal policy.

Compared to myself, Navy Pride is a card carried member of the communist party.

 

[Volker]

Liberal here in the U.S. is defined differently then it is in Europe.........

Ok, then by American definition maybe I am one.

 

[Navy Pride]

Ok, then by American definition maybe I am one.

No offense my friend but judging by how you post in DP I think you are........

 

[Captain America]

Last night I spoke with my brother who is home for 3 weeks from Iraq. I asked what was the real deal there. I told him that FOX only reports news that is favorable to the rightwing republican warring element of our society and CNN reports the other side. I asked which should I believe.

He told me that both of them are fairly accurate and that I should spend time garnering my information from both if I wanted to get anywhere close to fair and balanced.

But he said some other things to me too. He is very limited in regard to what he can and cannot say, so needless to say, he was very lcautious in what he could tell me personally. He would not really go into much detail about anything.

But he pointed this out to me. He said, "When dog bites man, it's not news. When man bites dog, it's news." He went on to say that today's news is market driven like any other for profit entity.

He was disgusted with the recent attrocities committed by a few over there. He said that every day there are no less than 300 to 500 acts of noble soldiers doing good deeds and to him they are all hero's. Guys and gals, our kids over there are awesome. We are very blessed to have our young people be so capable.

But, you see, when Americans do acts of rightousness, that's not news. We're Americans. That's what we do. No news there. You won't hear too much about that.

But when a couple of houligans get out of line, for whatever reason, man bites dog. That's news.

It is impossible to amass thousands of individuals without having a couple of bad apples. That's the law of average. It's a constant factor in humans.

There are a lot of good things happening in Iraq right now but who wants to hear about it? Obviously the media thinks we don't. It just doesn't sell.

I think we were wrong going into Iraq half-cocked. I think our motives were questionable and our leaders were hoodwinked, just like the rest of us, for supporting it. I can hardly blame them for changing their mind after the fact.

But I left the conversation feeling better about it. After talking to someone on the ground over there, who I trust unconditionally, I personally think we have turned the corner in Iraq. Saddam is gone. Which created a power vaccuum. The Saddam wannabes all rushed to fill that void. They will be defeated.

Regardless of what led us there, the fact remains that we are there. I think we should see this through. I'm now thinking that something positive may come out of this after all. Much along the thought line of, "When you get lemons, make lemonade."

So, as the forum points out, anyone who disagrees with Ol' Navy is a liberal. So, I guess that makes me a liberal.:roll:

This liberal would vote (if I was inclined to actually vote in a NP troll poll) to stay the course in Iraq. I have been persuaded that this turmoil will eventually pass in Iraq and things will settle down eventually just like they did in Bosnia. (He did the same job in Bosnia.) I trust my brother. He does not lie. He too, is a Master Freemason and that speaks volumes (to those in the know) about his integrity and credibility. Plus, I have known him all of my life so I should know.

I left the conversation with a more positive view of our envolvemnent in Iraq. I guess that makes me a flip-flopper huh?

My brother is a civillian interrogator contracted through the UN. He has three years left on his contract. What does that tell you? Ain't nothing gonna happen overnight there.

But he did say that when the US forces pull out, he will be at the front of the plane. Contract be damned. He does NOT trust the Iraqi forces to protect him.

 

[Navy Pride]

Agreed.

Welfare, foreign or domestic is liberal. Using tax dollars to liberate foreign lands is liberal policy.

Compared to myself, Navy Pride is a card carried member of the communist party.

Please refrain from personal attacks.....Your a better man/woman then that...........thanks

 

[zymurgy]

Please refrain from personal attacks.....Your a better man/woman then that...........thanks

me calling you a communist is no more an attack then you calling me a liberal.

 

[Navy Pride]

me calling you a communist is no more an attack then you calling me a liberal.

So you say that being called a liberal is as bad as being called a communist? I never looked at it that way but maybe your right........I with draw my other post........

 

[Captain America]

Personally, I equate communism ideology closer to American rightwing ideology than American leftwing ideology. I mean, liberty and communism mix like oil and water.

But neither truly deserve to equated to communism. They ain't even close.

People who use the word liberal like the "N" word are just assholes. Their thoughts and opinions do not deserve contemplation. We should just leave them be to their trailer park and go about our business ignoring them.

The thought of a unified America scares the bejeebers out of them and they have made it their mission to widen the divide. They are detrimental to our nation but I will stop short of calling them traitors.

United we stand. Divided we fall.

Liberty and justice for all.

 

[zymurgy]

So you say that being called a liberal is as bad as being called a communist? I never looked at it that way but maybe your right........I with draw my other post........

Calling me something I'm not is the crux of my argument.

If I label someone a liberal, no malice is intended. Can you honestly say the same?

 

[Navy Pride]

I guess I will never understand why Liberals hate to be addressed as such.......That is what they are...........Hell Captain America is one of the biggest Liberals in DP but he is so ashamed of it that he constantly pretends to be in the middle..........I myself am a right wing Conservative and wear my Conservatism like a badge of honor.........I am honored when someone calls me a Conservative........

To me its Mom, Apple Pie and the USA.........

 

[Navy Pride]

Calling me something I'm not is the crux of my argument.

If I label someone a liberal, no malice is intended. Can you honestly say the same?

I mean no malice towards anyone......When someone posts are all slanted to the left then I can only assume they are a liberal........If your not I apologize.....

 

[zymurgy]

I guess I will never understand why Liberals hate to be addressed as such.......That is what they are...........Hell Captain America is one of the biggest Liberals in DP but he is so ashamed of it that he constantly pretends to be in the middle..........I myself am a right wing Conservative and wear my Conservatism like a badge of honor.........I am honored when someone calls me a Conservative........

To me its Mom, Apple Pie and the USA.........

Its the intent that bothers people NP. How you fail to recognize that is alarming.

Take the "n" word. Its commonly used by black people towards each other and no negative intent exists in its use. The same isn't generally true when white people use the same word. Why? Intent.

Same with your use of liberal.

Finally, for you to cry about personal attacks is hilarious. I did the exact same thing to you that you did to me. The difference? I didn't call the wambulance.