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What should the Sunni's do?

Surenderer

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In Iraq the Sunni's want a Centralized Goverment but the Kurds dont (the want autonomy) and as you know one cant have both......Also The Shi'ite faction wants government based on Islamic law but the Sunnis and the Kurds want a secular state.......again both are not possible....Plus the fact that Shiites and Kurds probably want a little "pay-back" at the Sunni's for being oppressed for so long and they definatly plan on being on top.....and of course the Sunni's are the minority so again they are screwed...Now they got Bush on their backside......On Tuesday he told them to quit whinning (my words) because they were interfering with their chance to live in a free society (his words)...What I find sad about that statement is that these are the same people who are very ones who participated in the drafting of a new constitution, risking their lives to do so because the guerrillas see this participation as a form of collaboration with the occupiers in the 1st place...I dont blame Bush though because after the Jan 30 elections which totally screwed the Sunni Electorate(sp?) the Bush administration did, to its credit, finally step in to push for proper Sunni Arab representation on the constitution-drafting committee. The way it stands now the Kurds will establish an autonomous region in the north that will control the northern oil fields. The Shi'ite religious parties will establish a Shi'ite region in the south that will control all the southern oil fieldsbut there is no oil to speak of in the Sunni region. Thus, the Sunnis see the constitution as starving them of revenue and influence and eventually breaking up the country.....so if not Revolution then what should the Sunni's do?



peace
 

cnredd

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Surenderer said:
In Iraq the Sunni's want a Centralized Goverment but the Kurds dont (the want autonomy) and as you know one cant have both......Also The Shi'ite faction wants government based on Islamic law but the Sunnis and the Kurds want a secular state.......again both are not possible....Plus the fact that Shiites and Kurds probably want a little "pay-back" at the Sunni's for being oppressed for so long and they definatly plan on being on top.....and of course the Sunni's are the minority so again they are screwed...Now they got Bush on their backside......On Tuesday he told them to quit whinning (my words) because they were interfering with their chance to live in a free society (his words)...What I find sad about that statement is that these are the same people who are very ones who participated in the drafting of a new constitution, risking their lives to do so because the guerrillas see this participation as a form of collaboration with the occupiers in the 1st place...I dont blame Bush though because after the Jan 30 elections which totally screwed the Sunni Electorate(sp?) the Bush administration did, to its credit, finally step in to push for proper Sunni Arab representation on the constitution-drafting committee. The way it stands now the Kurds will establish an autonomous region in the north that will control the northern oil fields. The Shi'ite religious parties will establish a Shi'ite region in the south that will control all the southern oil fieldsbut there is no oil to speak of in the Sunni region. Thus, the Sunnis see the constitution as starving them of revenue and influence and eventually breaking up the country.....so if not Revolution then what should the Sunni's do?

peace
The problem the Sunni's have DOES have to do with their power that they have enjoyed for the last four decades that will be diminished in the country presently...but it goes a touch further than that...

Why are they p.o'd? The same reason those on the left cry about Bush every 10 seconds....OIL....

Central Iraq is the one place that is deprived of this commodity...Since the late 60s, the Sunni leadership under SH enjoyed the riches of the Shi'ite and Kurdish communities by taking their oil and reaping the benifits...This Constitution does not afford them the larceny that they have lived by...

They will now have to SHARE the profits of the oil industy of the country instead of taking it all themselves, which has been their way of life for the last forty years....

"Now you have to play fair"...That is a concept they are unwilling to accept....
 

SKILMATIC

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I really hope democracy will work there. I know too much to say infallibly if it will or not casue there are too many factors.

However, I will say that it will need to work cause we invested soo much into this country for it not to.

That is the foundation of this topic right there.
 

ShamMol

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There was an LA Times article yesterday, not even op-ed which freaked me out, that made it seem as if the country was headed toward civil war. This was how it ended...we have two choices...leave now and leave the country in disarray or stay at the cost of a lot of American lives in a civil war. Mind you-THIS WASN'T AN OP-ED. That is freaking scary. Even listening to Fox News in the airport today, they made it seem like Bush's call to Sunni leaders on teh Consitution was in desperation not in cooperation or anything like that. I mean, I just see this entire thing unraveling...which I really don't want.

People will come here and say, oh, that is exactly what all liberals want, but it isn't. No, we, at least I, want what is best for the region and that is a stable country, even if it isn't a democracy (not the best solution, but a solution nonetheless). Now, with the constitution process possibly going awry or the Sunnis boycotting or rallying against, or causing civil war...I just see a no-win situation unless a compromise is worked out, and worked out soon...

It is tough for them to accept as Cnredd said, and frankly, the Sunnis and Shiites are going to have to give a lot as well to placate them because a civil war will be more disastorous for them, who frankly have that much more to lose. As the head of the drafting committee put it...there is no word in Arabic for compromise. They have to learn, both sides.
 

SKILMATIC

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there is no word in Arabic for compromise
Your right. I have said this very notion before in another thread when I tried to explain about the iraqi war.
 

ShamMol

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But by all accounts, most on the Shiite delegation have tried to work with both the Kurds and Sunnis to reach a compromise. Point being that they are trying to reach something amicable to all parties which really hadn't been done with SH's dictatorial regime. And that was what the leader of the delegation was trying to encourage all the parties to do day in and day out in the spirit of nationalism.

In the LA Times, it was quoted that Iraqis were staying up to all hours of the night just to see if progess had been made in drafting a constitution because that is how much they care about their country. Some are interpreting that to mean that they want to see how their...sect is winning out in the negotiations. I guess only time will tell.
 

cnredd

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ShamMol said:
But by all accounts, most on the Shiite delegation have tried to work with both the Kurds and Sunnis to reach a compromise. Point being that they are trying to reach something amicable to all parties which really hadn't been done with SH's dictatorial regime. And that was what the leader of the delegation was trying to encourage all the parties to do day in and day out in the spirit of nationalism.

In the LA Times, it was quoted that Iraqis were staying up to all hours of the night just to see if progess had been made in drafting a constitution because that is how much they care about their country. Some are interpreting that to mean that they want to see how their...sect is winning out in the negotiations. I guess only time will tell.
I'm keeping a wary eye on this, but I don't consider it a big deal if negotiations run into obstacles...welcome to life...

If you look back into American history, it would look like knife-fights were about to start during both of America's Continental Congresses...There were states ready to pull out at the drop of a hat.

For anyone expecting this to be "peache & cream", they are sadly mistaken...

The birth of a nation can be more painful than the birth of a child...There is no "manual" existing that says, "Here is the way things should be done."
 

SKILMATIC

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I'm keeping a wary eye on this, but I don't consider it a big deal if negotiations run into obstacles...welcome to life...

If you look back into American history, it would look like knife-fights were about to start during both of America's Continental Congresses...There were states ready to pull out at the drop of a hat.

For anyone expecting this to be "peache & cream", they are sadly mistaken...

The birth of a nation can be more painful than the birth of a child...There is no "manual" existing that says, "Here is the way things should be done."
You got that right.
 

Surenderer

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cnredd said:
The problem the Sunni's have DOES have to do with their power that they have enjoyed for the last four decades that will be diminished in the country presently...but it goes a touch further than that...

Why are they p.o'd? The same reason those on the left cry about Bush every 10 seconds....OIL....

Central Iraq is the one place that is deprived of this commodity...Since the late 60s, the Sunni leadership under SH enjoyed the riches of the Shi'ite and Kurdish communities by taking their oil and reaping the benifits...This Constitution does not afford them the larceny that they have lived by...

They will now have to SHARE the profits of the oil industy of the country instead of taking it all themselves, which has been their way of life for the last forty years....

"Now you have to play fair"...That is a concept they are unwilling to accept....





Not fair bro.....Despite public opinion Saddam was ruthless to Sunni's also as well as Shiites and Kurds. Saddam was a menace to anyone who opposed him....Did the American Constitution grant special benefits to the North over the South?...Dont get me wrong I am for the Constitution and it's benefits for example:

Article 2: "Islam is the official religion.... No law can be passed that contradicts the fixed principles of Islam.... No law can be passed that contradicts the rights and basic freedoms outlined in this constitution.


Article 14: "Iraqis are equal before the law without discrimination because of sex, ethnicity, nationality, origin, color, religion, sect, belief, opinion, or ... status."


Article 151: "A proportion of no less than 25 percent of the seats in the Council of Representatives is specified for ... women."


These to me are good things but it will all wash if the Sunni's should win a two-thirds majority in three of the country’s 18 provinces. The Sunnis would then force fresh elections and begin the process of drafting a new constitution all over again, this time from a position of greater strength.



peace
 
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