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What Should the goal(s) of our Penal system be?

What should the goal of our penal system be?

  • Rehabilitation (try to turn every criminal into a member of society)

    Votes: 3 12.5%
  • Punishment (revenge for wrongs committed)

    Votes: 2 8.3%
  • Rehabilitation and protection of society (REAL life sentences for those deemed un-rehabilitable)

    Votes: 8 33.3%
  • Punishment, and rehabilitation if possible (main focus on the victims and their sense of closure)

    Votes: 1 4.2%
  • Rehabilitation, punishment and the protection of society

    Votes: 10 41.7%

  • Total voters
    24

Blind man

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Was watching one of the pundits earlier railing about how our Justice Department is failing and how we are being soft on crime with lax sentencing and horrible parole procedures. His main point was that these people hd done "bad" and should be punished. Punished as in made to feel misery for causing misery to others. Is this an enlightened viewpoint? Should our justice system be in the business of revenge? Should the infliction of pain be a prime goal of the way we handle our nations prison population?
 

Conflict

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Re: What [b]Should[/b] the goal(s) of our Penal system be?

Blind man said:
Was watching one of the pundits earlier railing about how our Justice Department is failing and how we are being soft on crime with lax sentencing and horrible parole procedures. His main point was that these people hd done "bad" and should be punished. Punished as in made to feel misery for causing misery to others. Is this an enlightened viewpoint? Should our justice system be in the business of revenge? Should the infliction of pain be a prime goal of the way we handle our nations prison population?
Reform, never punishment.

Rehabilitation trumps vindication.

Let's count how many so called "christians" disagree with this.....

counter on
 

Stace

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Re: What [b]Should[/b] the goal(s) of our Penal system be?

I think a good many people behind bars are capable of being rehabilitated, especially if they are first time offenders. For those that aren't, however, I say keep 'em locked up, if nothing else, it's cheaper than executing them.
 

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Re: What [b]Should[/b] the goal(s) of our Penal system be?

Voted "Rehab, punishment, protection", except the correct order is protection, punishment, and rehab.

Protection is obvious, it's why free people band together to form governments.

Punishment is proper because crimes should both carry a price to reduce the number of shoppers in a given market, and to remind those people who commit crimes that they shouldn't do this again, or any other crime.

Rehabilitation is a nice goal, for those people that might benefit from it. But rehab is wasted on recidivists, funds should not be wasted on them. Some criminals are so unrepentant that it's clear that such attempts would be cynically abused, and rehab funds shouldn't be wasted on them. Some crimes are so heinous that rehab clearly isn't feasible. No point in trying to rehab a man with a life sentence. No point in trying to rehab a make awaiting a needle.

But rehab is a reasonable goal for persons expected to be returned to the public sometime in the future.
 

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not to derail my own thread, , but how does a topic get 4 views and 6 poll votes? seems kinda backwards to me.
 

Blind man

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Re: What [b]Should[/b] the goal(s) of our Penal system be?

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
Voted "Rehab, punishment, protection", except the correct order is protection, punishment, and rehab.

Protection is obvious, it's why free people band together to form governments.

Punishment is proper because crimes should both carry a price to reduce the number of shoppers in a given market, and to remind those people who commit crimes that they shouldn't do this again, or any other crime.

Rehabilitation is a nice goal, for those people that might benefit from it. But rehab is wasted on recidivists, funds should not be wasted on them. Some criminals are so unrepentant that it's clear that such attempts would be cynically abused, and rehab funds shouldn't be wasted on them. Some crimes are so heinous that rehab clearly isn't feasible. No point in trying to rehab a man with a life sentence. No point in trying to rehab a make awaiting a needle.

But rehab is a reasonable goal for persons expected to be returned to the public sometime in the future.
So you believe in punishment as a public deterrance policy? Kinda like the idea of public beatings/executions? Rather than using punishment as a form of victim closure? (which seemed to be the underlying argument by the pundit I was watching.)
 

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Should be protection from society and deterrance, that's it. Deter to keep people from doing the crime, and doing it again, (which is punishment I guess) and protection of society so those criminals don't go off and harm more innocent people.

Rehabilitation should be reserved for the juvenile system alone. It just does not work on adult criminals, it just wastes the money of innocent, hardworking American taxpayers.
 

Stace

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Hornburger said:
Rehabilitation should be reserved for the juvenile system alone. It just does not work on adult criminals, it just wastes the money of innocent, hardworking American taxpayers.
Do you have something proving this, or is it just your opinion?
 

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Re: What [b]Should[/b] the goal(s) of our Penal system be?

Conflict said:
Reform, never punishment.
Criminals should never be punished?
Why?
 

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Re: What [b]Should[/b] the goal(s) of our Penal system be?

M14 Shooter said:
Criminals should never be punished?
Why?
Look at the definition of punishment used in the poll.

Revenge is never the answer.
 

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Re: What [b]Should[/b] the goal(s) of our Penal system be?

Stace said:
Look at the definition of punishment used in the poll.
Revenge is never the answer.
Ah. The poll is flawed.

A better way to ask:
Jailing someone, in and of itself, is punishment.
Do we punish people for:
-Deterrence
-Retribution
-Rehabilitation
-Protection of society.
 

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Re: What [b]Should[/b] the goal(s) of our Penal system be?

Blind man said:
So you believe in punishment as a public deterrance policy? Kinda like the idea of public beatings/executions? Rather than using punishment as a form of victim closure? (which seemed to be the underlying argument by the pundit I was watching.)
I have no problem with laying the skin on the back of a man open for driving a car while intoxicated. Better that than patting him on the head, giving him probation, and watching him kill my kids the next time.
 

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Re: What [b]Should[/b] the goal(s) of our Penal system be?

Scarecrow Akhbar said:
I have no problem with laying the skin on the back of a man open for driving a car while intoxicated. Better that than patting him on the head, giving him probation, and watching him kill my kids the next time.

you didn't answer my question, so let me re-phrase. Do you believe in punishment to make the criminal feel pain and misery? Or to serve as a warning to other criminals that if they break the law this could happen to them? The second option isn't focused on the criminal at hand, rather at the general public and warning them of possible consequences for illegal behavior.

In your example of drunk driving punishment could be the flaying of the skin you mentioned, rehabilitation could be mandatory treatment programs, and protection from society would be the removing of the individual from society. Which of the three, (you can pick more than one or all) best defines your intent?

and M14, I will try to clear things up for you. Yes, all jail time is a punishment, but it's the intent I'm looking at eliciting here. Thanks for bringing that up though you may have helped some people understand the question better :cool:
 

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Re: What [b]Should[/b] the goal(s) of our Penal system be?

Blind man said:
you didn't answer my question, so let me re-phrase. Do you believe in punishment to make the criminal feel pain and misery? Or to serve as a warning to other criminals that if they break the law this could happen to them? The second option isn't focused on the criminal at hand, rather at the general public and warning them of possible consequences for illegal behavior.

In your example of drunk driving punishment could be the flaying of the skin you mentioned, rehabilitation could be mandatory treatment programs, and protection from society would be the removing of the individual from society. Which of the three, (you can pick more than one or all) best defines your intent?

and M14, I will try to clear things up for you. Yes, all jail time is a punishment, but it's the intent I'm looking at eliciting here. Thanks for bringing that up though you may have helped some people understand the question better :cool:
Yes I did. A good flogging has no other function than to inflict pain and misery...the sufferer of which becomes a warning to others that they too could enjoy that same fate if they break the law. But only if it's applied reliably and fairly.
 
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Rehabilitation and protection of society.

Punishment for punishment's sake does no good; it is infinitely more effective to reform a dangerous man than to hope to scare him off his ways (and more beneficial to him). As for its being a deterrent, the murder rate in the U.S., where there is capital punishment, is several times lower than that of the U.K. and a great many other nations where there is not. Draw your own conclusions...

Rehabilitation and punishment both exist chiefly as means to the same end, which is the protection of society and the maintenance of order. That is the greater good, I think.
 

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Stace said:
Do you have something proving this, or is it just your opinion?
It's my opinion, based in what I've heard and statistics. Prisons are largely overcrowded, making conditions pretty bad...and making the chances for rehabilitation go down a lot...the whole point of the system is a supportive environment where the system gives individual attention, but if there is overcrowding and poor conditions this can't be achieved. If you put someone in to this "rehabilitation system" things are all well and good because you are in this soft and supportive environment. But when you get back in the real world, with those temptations, with those people that you used to hang out with, with those drugs looking you in the face, I don't see how you can suddenly change someone's whole life in spite of the poor conditions of how the person has been brought up. If you're a juvy, sure, you still have chances of being saved because of your state of mind and the fact that you are still growing and all....but as an adult, you should know better, and things aren't going to be so quick to change.

by the way...legalizing drugs and privatizing prison systems would help a LOT...but I don't see this happening any time soon, and until this is done, the goals should be deterrance and protection of society.
 
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jamesrage

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Blind man said:
Was watching one of the pundits earlier railing about how our Justice Department is failing and how we are being soft on crime with lax sentencing and horrible parole procedures. His main point was that these people hd done "bad" and should be punished. Punished as in made to feel misery for causing misery to others. Is this an enlightened viewpoint? Should our justice system be in the business of revenge? Should the infliction of pain be a prime goal of the way we handle our nations prison population?
Prison is for punishing the guilty.It is not a mental hospital.We have these punishments to let the vermin out there know there are punishments for breaking the law.

The ****ed up rhetoric I commonly hear on these "anti-death penalty" and "rehabilitation should be the main focus" threads follows as

"boo hoo sniff sniff what about the poor person who is morally and legally challenged.The individual who was unfortunaly deprived of his life can not be brought back to life no matter what justice we give the poor person who is legally and morally challenged and the person who was robbed can always replace their stuff.Whaa boo hoo sniff sniff whaa the poor man is suffering,Snif sniff boo hoo it is not his fault he is legally and morally challenged it is a mental desease that one day could perhaps be cured,so we should spare his life and study him"boo hoo sniff snif who are you to call this poor man suffering from some mental desease a lower than dirt piece of manure that is also a impure matter that rises to the top the surface of a body of water and bag,Jesus said we should ignore the sins of our fellow man and not punish in the justice system,you ar so mean why do you not have aheart for these morally and legalyl challenged persons?snif snif boo hoo these are people with feeling,hHave you no heart and don't you beleave in redemption.boo hoo sniff sniff waa waa haven't you ever made a mistake before in yor life"



This is what every prison should be.
http://www.spunk.org/texts/prison/sp001611.txt

In general. Supermax prisoners are locked into small cells
for approximately 23 hours a day. They have almost no contact
with other human beings.
There are no group activities: no work, no educational
opportunities, no eating together, no sports, no getting together
with other people for religious services, and no attempts at
rehabilitation.
There are no contact visits: prisoners sit behind a
plexiglass window. Phone calls and visitation privileges are
strictly limited. Books and magazines may be denied and pens
restricted. TV and radios may be prohibited or, if allowed, are
controlled by guards.
Prisoners have little or no personal privacy. Guards
monitor the inmates' movements by video cameras. Communication
between prisoners and control booth officers is mostly through
speakers and microphones. An officer at a control center may be
able to monitor cells and corridors and control all doors
electronically.
Typically, the cells have no windows. Lights are controlled
by guards who may leave them on night and day. For exercise
there is usually only a room with high concrete walls and a chin-up bar. Showers may be limited to three per week for not more
than ten minutes.
"Prisoners are confined to a concrete world in which they
never see a blade of grass, earth, trees or any part of the
natural world."


Criminals are vermin and should be punished.Prison should only focus on punishment.Prison should be a hell on earth for the scumbags, not some gay university in the rough side of town.

Most prisoners behind bars get the following,
1.Free education.

2.free medical care

3.Free entertainment

4.free room

5.Free 3 meals a day

6.internet

7.video games

8.free weight room

9.sexual relations with other inmates.

10 drugs.

11.Sex changes.

12.job

13.cable

14.free clothing

People in third world countries do not get that and most citizens in the US have to pay for those things.When did people become such pussies that they are appauled aby any real punishment of people who break the law?
 

Conflict

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Re: What [b]Should[/b] the goal(s) of our Penal system be?

M14 Shooter said:
Criminals should never be punished?
Why?
Why should they be punished? If they are incapable of rehabilitation then they should remain incarcerated... how is punishment the answer? It is liable to only further denigrate anything pertaining to justice and liberty. If nothing else the role of the prison is to protect the people from those who have proven themselves to be incapable of of abiding by laws that infringe upon the rights of specific victims.

Two wrongs never make a right. To forgive and to forget are two different concepts.
 
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Conflict

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jamesrage said:
Prison is for punishing the guilty.It is not a mental hospital.We have these punishments to let the vermin out there know there are punishments for breaking the law.

The ****ed up rhetoric I commonly hear on these "anti-death penalty" and "rehabilitation should be the main focus" threads follows as

"boo hoo sniff sniff what about the poor person who is morally and legally challenged.The individual who was unfortunaly deprived of his life can not be brought back to life no matter what justice we give the poor person who is legally and morally challenged and the person who was robbed can always replace their stuff.Whaa boo hoo sniff sniff whaa the poor man is suffering,Snif sniff boo hoo it is not his fault he is legally and morally challenged it is a mental desease that one day could perhaps be cured,so we should spare his life and study him"boo hoo sniff snif who are you to call this poor man suffering from some mental desease a lower than dirt piece of manure that is also a impure matter that rises to the top the surface of a body of water and bag,Jesus said we should ignore the sins of our fellow man and not punish in the justice system,you ar so mean why do you not have aheart for these morally and legalyl challenged persons?snif snif boo hoo these are people with feeling,hHave you no heart and don't you beleave in redemption.boo hoo sniff sniff waa waa haven't you ever made a mistake before in yor life"



This is what every prison should be.
http://www.spunk.org/texts/prison/sp001611.txt

In general. Supermax prisoners are locked into small cells
for approximately 23 hours a day. They have almost no contact
with other human beings.
There are no group activities: no work, no educational
opportunities, no eating together, no sports, no getting together
with other people for religious services, and no attempts at
rehabilitation.
There are no contact visits: prisoners sit behind a
plexiglass window. Phone calls and visitation privileges are
strictly limited. Books and magazines may be denied and pens
restricted. TV and radios may be prohibited or, if allowed, are
controlled by guards.
Prisoners have little or no personal privacy. Guards
monitor the inmates' movements by video cameras. Communication
between prisoners and control booth officers is mostly through
speakers and microphones. An officer at a control center may be
able to monitor cells and corridors and control all doors
electronically.
Typically, the cells have no windows. Lights are controlled
by guards who may leave them on night and day. For exercise
there is usually only a room with high concrete walls and a chin-up bar. Showers may be limited to three per week for not more
than ten minutes.
"Prisoners are confined to a concrete world in which they
never see a blade of grass, earth, trees or any part of the
natural world."


Criminals are vermin and should be punished.Prison should only focus on punishment.Prison should be a hell on earth for the scumbags, not some gay university in the rough side of town.

Most prisoners behind bars get the following,
1.Free education.

2.free medical care

3.Free entertainment

4.free room

5.Free 3 meals a day

6.internet

7.video games

8.free weight room

9.sexual relations with other inmates.

10 drugs.

11.Sex changes.

12.job

13.cable

14.free clothing

People in third world countries do not get that and most citizens in the US have to pay for those things.When did people become such pussies that they are appauled aby any real punishment of people who break the law?
No good Christian or anybody with any theological morality would dare attempt to play god such as you do.
 

jamesrage

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Re: What [b]Should[/b] the goal(s) of our Penal system be?

Conflict said:
Why should they be punished?
Do the words they broke the law mean anything to you?

If they are incapable of rehabilitation then they should remain incarcerated... how is punishment the answer?
To be made examples out of.To remind them that they are scum and have broke the law

No good Christian or anybody with any theological morality would dare attempt to play god such as you do.
I am not playing God I am just stating the truth.

This part is what every ***** and dickless mother ****er has said and or mightas well be saying on these type of threads.

"boo hoo sniff sniff what about the poor person who is morally and legally challenged.The individual who was unfortunaly deprived of his life can not be brought back to life no matter what justice we give the poor person who is legally and morally challenged and the person who was robbed can always replace their stuff.Whaa boo hoo sniff sniff whaa the poor man is suffering,Snif sniff boo hoo it is not his fault he is legally and morally challenged it is a mental desease that one day could perhaps be cured,so we should spare his life and study him"boo hoo sniff snif who are you to call this poor man suffering from some mental desease a lower than dirt piece of manure that is also a impure matter that rises to the top the surface of a body of water and bag,Jesus said we should ignore the sins of our fellow man and not punish in the justice system,you ar so mean why do you not have aheart for these morally and legalyl challenged persons?snif snif boo hoo these are people with feeling,Have you no heart and don't you beleave in redemption.boo hoo sniff sniff waa waa haven't you ever made a mistake before in yor life"



This part is what a real prison should be..Punishment!


This is what every prison should be.
http://www.spunk.org/texts/prison/sp001611.txt

In general. Supermax prisoners are locked into small cells
for approximately 23 hours a day. They have almost no contact
with other human beings.
There are no group activities: no work, no educational
opportunities, no eating together, no sports, no getting together
with other people for religious services, and no attempts at
rehabilitation.
There are no contact visits: prisoners sit behind a
plexiglass window. Phone calls and visitation privileges are
strictly limited. Books and magazines may be denied and pens
restricted. TV and radios may be prohibited or, if allowed, are
controlled by guards.
Prisoners have little or no personal privacy. Guards
monitor the inmates' movements by video cameras. Communication
between prisoners and control booth officers is mostly through
speakers and microphones. An officer at a control center may be
able to monitor cells and corridors and control all doors
electronically.
Typically, the cells have no windows. Lights are controlled
by guards who may leave them on night and day. For exercise
there is usually only a room with high concrete walls and a chin-up bar. Showers may be limited to three per week for not more
than ten minutes.
"Prisoners are confined to a concrete world in which they
never see a blade of grass, earth, trees or any part of the
natural world."
 

Conflict

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Re: What [b]Should[/b] the goal(s) of our Penal system be?

jamesrage said:
Do the words they broke the law mean anything to you?


To be made examples out of.To remind them that they are scum and have broke the law



I am not playing God I am just stating the truth.

This part is what every ***** and dickless mother ****er has said and or mightas well be saying on these type of threads.

"boo hoo sniff sniff what about the poor person who is morally and legally challenged.The individual who was unfortunaly deprived of his life can not be brought back to life no matter what justice we give the poor person who is legally and morally challenged and the person who was robbed can always replace their stuff.Whaa boo hoo sniff sniff whaa the poor man is suffering,Snif sniff boo hoo it is not his fault he is legally and morally challenged it is a mental desease that one day could perhaps be cured,so we should spare his life and study him"boo hoo sniff snif who are you to call this poor man suffering from some mental desease a lower than dirt piece of manure that is also a impure matter that rises to the top the surface of a body of water and bag,Jesus said we should ignore the sins of our fellow man and not punish in the justice system,you ar so mean why do you not have aheart for these morally and legalyl challenged persons?snif snif boo hoo these are people with feeling,Have you no heart and don't you beleave in redemption.boo hoo sniff sniff waa waa haven't you ever made a mistake before in yor life"



This part is what a real prison should be..Punishment!


This is what every prison should be.
http://www.spunk.org/texts/prison/sp001611.txt

In general. Supermax prisoners are locked into small cells
for approximately 23 hours a day. They have almost no contact
with other human beings.
There are no group activities: no work, no educational
opportunities, no eating together, no sports, no getting together
with other people for religious services, and no attempts at
rehabilitation.
There are no contact visits: prisoners sit behind a
plexiglass window. Phone calls and visitation privileges are
strictly limited. Books and magazines may be denied and pens
restricted. TV and radios may be prohibited or, if allowed, are
controlled by guards.
Prisoners have little or no personal privacy. Guards
monitor the inmates' movements by video cameras. Communication
between prisoners and control booth officers is mostly through
speakers and microphones. An officer at a control center may be
able to monitor cells and corridors and control all doors
electronically.
Typically, the cells have no windows. Lights are controlled
by guards who may leave them on night and day. For exercise
there is usually only a room with high concrete walls and a chin-up bar. Showers may be limited to three per week for not more
than ten minutes.
"Prisoners are confined to a concrete world in which they
never see a blade of grass, earth, trees or any part of the
natural world."
I just hope you don't proclaim yourself to be a Christian... because god is not a republican nor is he a democrat...
 

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Re: What [b]Should[/b] the goal(s) of our Penal system be?

Conflict said:
I just hope you don't proclaim yourself to be a Christian... because god is not a republican nor is he a democrat...
What the **** do you know about christianity?Did you watch a episode of 7th heaven or Book of Danial and suddenly once and suddenly you are well knowlagable about christianity?.Did you go to sunday school when you was kid and that makes you well knowlagable about christianity?Jesus is not piece of **** pinko communist that gave every moron a license to sin.
 

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Re: What [b]Should[/b] the goal(s) of our Penal system be?

Conflict said:
I just hope you don't proclaim yourself to be a Christian... because god is not a republican nor is he a democrat...
In the Old Testament, he's a republican, in the new testament, he's a socialist (pretty similar to being a democrat). So I wouldn't say that. lol
 

Stace

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Re: What [b]Should[/b] the goal(s) of our Penal system be?

jamesrage said:
What the **** do you know about christianity?Did you watch a episode of 7th heaven or Book of Danial and suddenly once and suddenly you are well knowlagable about christianity?.Did you go to sunday school when you was kid and that makes you well knowlagable about christianity?Jesus is not piece of **** pinko communist that gave every moron a license to sin.
Well, gee, if you're going to ask someone else what THEY know about Christianity, why don't you share with us what YOU know?
 
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