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What should Dems counter offer to Trump over the shutdown and the wall?

Superfly said:
Yes, but I am speaking of the one who, not 2 weeks ago, sat with Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi and said that he owned the shutdown, and he would take up the mantle. Paraphrasing, but that's what I am referring to.
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Pfffffft. We all knew that he would gaslight and pretend as if he never stated the shutdown was a tactic on his part.

One thing I've learned about hard-right conservatives is that they gaslight like no other ideological group of people. Seriously, just about anytime you argue with one of the hard-righties, they'll play switcheroo with what they said, in an attempt to reconstruct the record, and invent a new narrative.

The world record for this does not belong to Trump, believe it or not. It belongs to the Crypt Keeper, who when arguing against marijuana legalization (small government, wink-wink) stated "none of my friends smoke pot" and then later stated "many of my friends smoke pot" within ... six seconds.

 
Superfly said:
Well where's the fun in that?
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He'll become like old Charlie Manson after a few years in solitary.

Wait a minute.

tenor.gif
 
MovingPictures said:
Pfffffft. We all knew that he would gaslight and pretend as if he never stated the shutdown was a tactic on his part.

One thing I've learned about hard-right conservatives is that they gaslight like no other ideological group of people. Seriously, just about anytime you argue with one of the hard-righties, they'll play switcheroo with what they said, in an attempt to reconstruct the record, and invent a new narrative.

The world record for this does not belong to Trump, believe it or not. It belongs to the Crypt Keeper, who when arguing against marijuana legalization (small government, wink-wink) stated "none of my friends smoke pot" and then later stated "many of my friends smoke pot" within ... six seconds.

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:lol: Nice. I got about a minute and a half in, and that was all I could handle.

I hate that bitch, but man, she has great hair.
 
Superfly said:
:lol: Nice. I got about a minute and a half in, and that was all I could handle.

I hate that bitch, but man, she has great hair.
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Meh, knowing that twat she probably stole that hair from some cancer patients.

Now, Jennifer Lopez, has a lot of ****in hair.
 
Thread: What should Dems counter offer to Trump over the shutdown and the wall?


Why would they offer anything again after the Bi-partisan plan was agreed upon and offered before Trump suddenly decided he changed his mind when Rush/Coulter called him a wimp if he didn't stick to the wall that no one actually understands what it is.
 
Thread: What should Dems counter offer to Trump over the shutdown and the wall?


Why would they offer anything again after the Bi-partisan plan was agreed upon and offered before Trump suddenly decided he changed his mind when Rush/Coulter called him a wimp if he didn't stick to the wall that no one actually understands what it is.
 
well they need to pass a budget without funding for his border wall and send it to him for his signature.

and then just wait. he said he alone was responsible for the shutdown over wall funding. let him pay the price.

we have been here before because of republicans. America will survive to scourge of Trump.
 
independentusa said:
My suggestion would be the 5 billion for Trump's wall and the Dems get DACA, straight up. What would you suggest the Dems to counter offer?
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Nothing outside of the purview of Border Security Appropriations. Not DACA not anything else that is balancing unrelated policy on one end of a Bill and Appropriations on the other end. Its BS legislation. It always has been BS, lazy, sloppy legislation.

Besides, you cannot trust Donald not to pull a fast one.

Its stupid. Let him hang on his "I own the shutdown" pledge followed by the utterly asinine pulling the rug out from under his own Senate Majority.

Pelosi should just open the new congress by immediately passing exactly the same CR that the Republican Senate passed forcing the Senate to either pass or reject the same CR they passed just two weeks ago. Send that up to the President's desk and if he vetoes try to override his veto.

Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter don't run the country!

Plus "offering" Trump anything right now is bad negotiating strategy. Right now Trump is negotiating with himself. Keep him doing that. If Trump offers DACA straight up, I might go for that because he will have made the offer leaving the Congress to just accept or reject. Dems should offer NOTHING.
 
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Trump and Trumpets still all over the map as to what it is that Trump actually wants or would call a "Wall"

Remember where this started and where it has been:
Trump during 2016 campaign: 1900 miles of solid concrete wall
Trump earlier in presidency: ???????, literally impossible to tell he was so inconsistent
Trump more recently:New Physical barrier consisting of 550 miles of some combined solid concrete wall and fencing (Bollack I asume)

None of the Trumpets that speak for Trump or Trump himself have supported ANYTHING on this physical barrier issue for more than one month at a time before changing it or otherwise muddying the water.

Make an actual proposal to Congress for what your administration actually wants because nobody can say what either you want or your administration wants any longer. Make a formal proposal for what you want at the border. I would not give Donald a red cent based on the garbage and crap this administration including Donald has tossed out there during and since 2016. Until you can put together a cohesive sentence on this topic, you don't get a dime Donald. That is where I am.

Do yourself a favor Donald, muzzle Neilson. Until she stops babbling like a 5 year old she is not doing you any good.
 
independentusa said:
My suggestion would be the 5 billion for Trump's wall and the Dems get DACA, straight up. What would you suggest the Dems to counter offer?
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They do not really have too, all the pressure is on Republicans to deal with their own President. Democrats and Republicans in Congress, even before Democrats take over the House in a few days, have been negotiating.

Trump is the hold out, and I doubt he'd give anything for his wall.
 
markjs said:
It's nice to dream. I think Ivanka and Jr. might do a bit of time, and I think his overall ineptitude/collusion/obstruction/criminality will end his presidency, but Nixon did no time, Bankers did noone, Rick Snyder of Michigan has done none, and I think sadly neither will DJT. I hope to see him broke, and maybe that will happen, but no, he'll do no time. Sadly that fact proves America is circling the drain. The rule of law has come to mean nothing. Look how long this administration was allowed to go on unimpeded by the GOP? The Democrats will be able to take him down with Mueller's help, eventually, but only because of his collosally stupid way of trying to cover up his foul stench of corruption, but as they been doing since Watergate, the guy will slide. Trump is more corrupt and dumber than NIxon, but at least you can't say Trump has blood on his hands like Nixon did through using Vietnam as a distraction. Unfortunately as far as America's place in the world and "recovering" from this failure of an administration, the consequences of Trump could prove worse than even Nixon. Someone should pay, and some might, probably not the one who most should though, we know this from long years of watching it unfold.
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I agree with you except for the "no blood on his hands" part. Mattis resigned in protest of trump's "claiming victory against Isis" and suddenly withdrawing from Syria. This will leave a power vacuum to be filled by the Kurds' enemies, the Turks and the Russians. Experts are claiming the Kurds will be slaughtered. I sure hope the experts are wrong!
 
independentusa said:
My suggestion would be the 5 billion for Trump's wall and the Dems get DACA, straight up. What would you suggest the Dems to counter offer?
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Depends on what the Democrats want. Along with how much priority each side gives to ending this partial shutdown. If this is an all or nothing battle, the shutdown may last a very long time. I don't think Trump would be interested in a DACA deal as he tried to end it. I also don't think Trump gives a flying hoot whether the partial government shutdown ends or not. Most Republicans in congress probably will go along with him on that as the next election is two full years away. More than enough time for most Americans to forget about the shutdown as we are famous for our short memory span.

I think we'll have to wait until the new House is seated and open for normal business before anything is done. I don't expect anything at all until around 7 January. Right now there is no clamor from the public about the partial shutdown. Either due to the holidays or due to the fact most folks haven't been affected by it.
 
Perotista said:
Depends on what the Democrats want. Along with how much priority each side gives to ending this partial shutdown. If this is an all or nothing battle, the shutdown may last a very long time. I don't think Trump would be interested in a DACA deal as he tried to end it. I also don't think Trump gives a flying hoot whether the partial government shutdown ends or not. Most Republicans in congress probably will go along with him on that as the next election is two full years away. More than enough time for most Americans to forget about the shutdown as we are famous for our short memory span.

I think we'll have to wait until the new House is seated and open for normal business before anything is done. I don't expect anything at all until around 7 January. Right now there is no clamor from the public about the partial shutdown. Either due to the holidays or due to the fact most folks haven't been affected by it.
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If the shutdown over this silly Wall nonsense reaches some stage of indefinite in time its the one thing that will get Trump Impeached and Removed.
 
jnug said:
If the shutdown over this silly Wall nonsense reaches some stage of indefinite in time its the one thing that will get Trump Impeached and Removed.
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I think you're dreaming there. Yes, the Democratically controlled house could impeach Trump for anything they want at any time they want. But it takes 67 senators to vote guilty and for removal in the senate trial. The Democrats have but 47, they need another 20 Republican senators to reach that mark. That isn't about to happen.

It would take some very serious charges, along with most Americans wanting impeachment and removal. We're not even close to either one. Those wanting impeachment has been between 35-40% since Trump first took office. But most of those are Democrats with a smattering of independents. Impeachment won't work if it is just one party wanting it. Look back at Bill Clinton's impeachment and trial.
 
Perotista said:
I think you're dreaming there. Yes, the Democratically controlled house could impeach Trump for anything they want at any time they want. But it takes 67 senators to vote guilty and for removal in the senate trial. The Democrats have but 47, they need another 20 Republican senators to reach that mark. That isn't about to happen.

It would take some very serious charges, along with most Americans wanting impeachment and removal. We're not even close to either one. Those wanting impeachment has been between 35-40% since Trump first took office. But most of those are Democrats with a smattering of independents. Impeachment won't work if it is just one party wanting it. Look back at Bill Clinton's impeachment and trial.
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Which is why an indefinite shutdown would likely get him removed by the Senate. They are nothing if pragmatists. Thinking Trump could survive the pragmatism of politics in forcing an indefinite shutdown flies in the face of reality. Washington always wins in the end. I don't care who you are, Washington always wins.
 
lurchadams said:
I agree with you except for the "no blood on his hands" part. Mattis resigned in protest of trump's "claiming victory against Isis" and suddenly withdrawing from Syria. This will leave a power vacuum to be filled by the Kurds' enemies, the Turks and the Russians. Experts are claiming the Kurds will be slaughtered. I sure hope the experts are wrong!
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Fair enough, but you have to see it's nothing like the scale of what Nixon did.
 
jnug said:
Which is why an indefinite shutdown would likely get him removed by the Senate. They are nothing if pragmatists. Thinking Trump could survive the pragmatism of politics in forcing an indefinite shutdown flies in the face of reality. Washington always wins in the end. I don't care who you are, Washington always wins.
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We'll see, but I highly doubt it. Unless the partial shutdown begins to affect lots and lots of people, who begin clamoring and shouting. I really doubt the senate would vote to remove. There's a lot of red state senators which in their states Trump is very popular as is building the wall. What you have with the wall is a very partisan issue. Democrats against it, Republicans for it, independents fairly split.

Opposition to the was is 90 - 8 percent among Democrats. Republicans support the wall 86 - 14 percent. Independent voters are divided as 45 percent support the wall, with 51 percent opposed. 18 Dec 2018 Quinnipiac Poll.

https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2590

The nation as a whole wants the Democrats in congress to focus on national issues, not impeachment by an 86-12 margin. Question 28. In general, do you think that the Democrats in Congress should focus more on impeaching President Trump, or focus more on other national issues?
 
Perotista said:
We'll see, but I highly doubt it. Unless the partial shutdown begins to affect lots and lots of people, who begin clamoring and shouting. I really doubt the senate would vote to remove. There's a lot of red state senators which in their states Trump is very popular as is building the wall. What you have with the wall is a very partisan issue. Democrats against it, Republicans for it, independents fairly split.

Opposition to the was is 90 - 8 percent among Democrats. Republicans support the wall 86 - 14 percent. Independent voters are divided as 45 percent support the wall, with 51 percent opposed. 18 Dec 2018 Quinnipiac Poll.

https://poll.qu.edu/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2590

The nation as a whole wants the Democrats in congress to focus on national issues, not impeachment by an 86-12 margin. Question 28. In general, do you think that the Democrats in Congress should focus more on impeaching President Trump, or focus more on other national issues?
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You do realize that one of the Depts of Government functioning without pay is......DHS. So all those Customs and Border Patrol Officers are working without pay. Sort of puts the Right in a bind if that goes on for very long...don't you think. "We are for Border Security...Border Security...Border Security....never mind the Border Agents working without pay....Border Security....Border Security....Border Security"

I don't see long shelf life on that argument. Cobbling together bandaid backpay solutions does not sound like much of a plan either as it still leaves those involved wondering when that will not be maintained.

If I am not mistaken the IRS is completely out of business for now.
 
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I think the dems should offer to pay as much for the wall as the repubs are offering to pay for abortions
 
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