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What people don't get about Trump support...

Dans La Lune

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If you're waiting for the latest controversy or scandal to sink Trump for his supporters, keep waiting. It will never happen. I just watched an analysis on CNN between Chris Cuomo and Dick Gregory over whether Biden can peel off Trump-sympathetic voters in a battle for the soul of the nation. It was really sad how out of touch these people are; that Trump supporters are afraid of the left and like Trump 'in spite of his flaws because the alternative is worse'. As if Biden could just position himself square in the center and it would pull Trump supporters over to his side. Republicans do not want a compromise candidate. Why would they?

The vast majority of Trump's supporters do not like Trump in spite of his behavior, his laughably low intellect, his dictator-like tendencies, his seemingly inability to master object permanence, and utter inability to navigate the very basics of government and cooperative problem solving -- they like him because of it. They are using him to destroy the government and the institutions of modern civilization from within. That's why his support will never drop below a certain very enthusiastic group -- his supporters feel that government is the one thing blocking their their agenda. Whether it's right-wing libertarians, overt racists, Christian fundamentalists, dictators and and aspiring dictator followers, oligarchs, etc... they all share a similar goal, dismantling of effective government.

To a large extent its not emotional, it's ideological. They don't feel uncomfortable with Trump on any level, except perhaps for the PR aspects which impacts their ability to spread their message.

This is the inevitable result of the Republican's shift away being an opposing political party with a different economic philosophy, and towards being a vehicle for the demonization and dismantling of government. A goal which allowed the various factions of conservatism to unite under a single banner decades ago. Trump is the fulfillment of this direction; he IS the chosen one. He is not an aberration.

Anyone who thinks that Trump is doing a good job of managing the government, or that his supporters want effective management government, is not a serious person.
 

AmNat

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Anyone who thinks that Trump is doing a good job of managing the government, or that his supporters want effective management government, is not a serious person.

I prefer effective government in general, but since most of the current regime's operations are objectively harmful, I'm happy for Trump to obstruct them (to the limited extent he can).
 

CaughtInThe

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It's almost like we need someone other than a twelve-year-old to run our country.
 

BlueTex

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The election is not about hard core Trump supporters or hard core Biden supporters, it's about those in the middle that haven't decided who to vote for.... Haven't seen any recent numbers but am guessing that is around 10-15 percent of voters...
 

Cardinal

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I wonder how many Gondorians wondered why the orcs didn't abandon Sauron after he punched a baby in front of an audience for fun.
 

Cardinal

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If you listen very carefully, you can hear the inhabitants of Minas Tirith saying, "I don't get it. Sauron called a black person an 'Alabama porch monkey.' Why are the orcs still standing by him?"

 

SheWolf

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I prefer effective government in general, but since most of the current regime's operations are objectively harmful, I'm happy for Trump to obstruct them (to the limited extent he can).

Do you want a dictatorship?
 

Felis Leo

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If you're waiting for the latest controversy or scandal to sink Trump for his supporters, keep waiting. It will never happen. I just watched an analysis on CNN between Chris Cuomo and Dick Gregory over whether Biden can peel off Trump-sympathetic voters in a battle for the soul of the nation. It was really sad how out of touch these people are; that Trump supporters are afraid of the left and like Trump 'in spite of his flaws because the alternative is worse'. As if Biden could just position himself square in the center and it would pull Trump supporters over to his side. Republicans do not want a compromise candidate. Why would they?

The vast majority of Trump's supporters do not like Trump in spite of his behavior, his laughably low intellect, his dictator-like tendencies, his seemingly inability to master object permanence, and utter inability to navigate the very basics of government and cooperative problem solving -- they like him because of it. They are using him to destroy the government and the institutions of modern civilization from within. That's why his support will never drop below a certain very enthusiastic group -- his supporters feel that government is the one thing blocking their their agenda. Whether it's right-wing libertarians, overt racists, Christian fundamentalists, dictators and and aspiring dictator followers, oligarchs, etc... they all share a similar goal, dismantling of effective government.

To a large extent its not emotional, it's ideological. They don't feel uncomfortable with Trump on any level, except perhaps for the PR aspects which impacts their ability to spread their message.

This is the inevitable result of the Republican's shift away being an opposing political party with a different economic philosophy, and towards being a vehicle for the demonization and dismantling of government. A goal which allowed the various factions of conservatism to unite under a single banner decades ago. Trump is the fulfillment of this direction; he IS the chosen one. He is not an aberration.

Anyone who thinks that Trump is doing a good job of managing the government, or that his supporters want effective management government, is not a serious person.

I think you are missing a major point, Dans La Lune. From what I have observed, personally, I would compare the support Donald Trump gets from his particular demographic of supporters to the support Democrats enjoy from the vast majority of black voters in the United States.

You may think that the comparison is ridiculous, but I think it is salient. And that is this: If forced to choose, people will almost always vote for someone who is objectively incompetent but at least signals that he cares about them, over someone who is clearly competent and qualified for the position, but who they think holds them in contempt. Most black voters, even conservative black voters, vote Democratic because they believe the Republican party is either racist or indifferent to their plight and everyday needs. Meanwhile, many Republicans, white Christians, and working class white people vote for Donald Trump because they are given to believe that the other party, the Democrats is either indifferent to their beliefs, their values, their way of life, or actively holds them in contempt.
 

CaughtInThe

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The election is not about hard core Trump supporters or hard core Biden supporters, it's about those in the middle that haven't decided who to vote for.... Haven't seen any recent numbers but am guessing that is around 10-15 percent of voters...

i still think it boils down to Florida.
 

HIP56948

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I believe all the people on the left should actually vote for Trump and every right-winger in local races. What better way to punish the Republicans?
 

SheWolf

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I think you are missing a major point, Dans La Lune. From what I have observed, personally, I would compare the support Donald Trump gets from his particular demographic of supporters to the support Democrats enjoy from the vast majority of black voters in the United States.

You may think that the comparison is ridiculous, but I think it is salient. And that is this: If forced to choose, people will almost always vote for someone who is objectively incompetent but at least signals that he cares about them, over someone who is clearly competent and qualified for the position, but who they think holds them in contempt. Most black voters, even conservative black voters, vote Democratic because they believe the Republican party is either racist or indifferent to their plight and everyday needs. Meanwhile, many Republicans, white Christians, and working class white people vote for Donald Trump because they are given to believe that the other party, the Democrats is either indifferent to their beliefs, their values, their way of life, or actively holds them in contempt.

But what is funny about working whites and white Christians, is that they don’t think Trump holds them in contempt? They are obviously being exploited by Trump.
 

Luckyone

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If you're waiting for the latest controversy or scandal to sink Trump for his supporters, keep waiting. It will never happen. I just watched an analysis on CNN between Chris Cuomo and Dick Gregory over whether Biden can peel off Trump-sympathetic voters in a battle for the soul of the nation. It was really sad how out of touch these people are; that Trump supporters are afraid of the left and like Trump 'in spite of his flaws because the alternative is worse'. As if Biden could just position himself square in the center and it would pull Trump supporters over to his side. Republicans do not want a compromise candidate. Why would they?

The vast majority of Trump's supporters do not like Trump in spite of his behavior, his laughably low intellect, his dictator-like tendencies, his seemingly inability to master object permanence, and utter inability to navigate the very basics of government and cooperative problem solving -- they like him because of it. They are using him to destroy the government and the institutions of modern civilization from within. That's why his support will never drop below a certain very enthusiastic group -- his supporters feel that government is the one thing blocking their their agenda. Whether it's right-wing libertarians, overt racists, Christian fundamentalists, dictators and and aspiring dictator followers, oligarchs, etc... they all share a similar goal, dismantling of effective government.

To a large extent its not emotional, it's ideological. They don't feel uncomfortable with Trump on any level, except perhaps for the PR aspects which impacts their ability to spread their message.

This is the inevitable result of the Republican's shift away being an opposing political party with a different economic philosophy, and towards being a vehicle for the demonization and dismantling of government. A goal which allowed the various factions of conservatism to unite under a single banner decades ago. Trump is the fulfillment of this direction; he IS the chosen one. He is not an aberration.

Anyone who thinks that Trump is doing a good job of managing the government, or that his supporters want effective management government, is not a serious person.

Famous Cults:

This (the Trump cult) may be the biggest cult ever seen but it is a cult. Cults believe blindly in their leader. Jim Jones with the People's Temple convinced all of his members to commit suicide. All 900 of them. David Berg and The Children of God convinced his people that pedophilia was okay. Children of the members were regularly raped, even a 4-year old. David Koresh convinced his people that he was talking to God and that the world was ending. He convinced more than 100 people to move to a compound in Waco, Texas and they held off the FBI for more than 50 days. In the end, the compound was set to fire by them and 75 of the members died. Marshall Applewhite convinced his members that he was the second coming of Jesus Christ. He convinced to give away all their money and then commit convinced 8 male members to get castrated to get rid of their sexual thoughts. In the end, he convinced his flock to commit suicide by putting bags over their heads and suffocate themselves.

All of these people believed blindly that their leader was right and they needed to follow everything he said.

With the only exception that this is a cult of tens of millions, the belief in their leader is total and blind.

It is a cult.

Definition of a cult: a misplaced or excessive admiration for a particular person or thing.

Cult Leader Characteristics

Cult Leader Characteristics

Cult groups often have a dynamic leader whose authority is respected and, in many cases, unquestioned. Obedience to the leader is often required, even when it involves deviant or unhealthy activity. For example, a cult leader might require that all female members be required to have sex with him.

Usually, a cult leader is a person of tremendous charisma who makes followers feel loved and accepted. It's often suggested that cult leaders use brainwashing tactics to attract and keep followers. In many instances, cult members deeply identify with and admire their leader. Cult leaders often require degrees of conformity among members. For example, they might require all members to wear matching white jumpsuits and shave their heads. Fostering feelings of belonging is a central tactic cult leaders employ. (MAGA hats, for example)
 
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SheWolf

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Is any successful business run as a democracy? Or by an unaccountable civil service?

The government isn’t a business. Has any dictatorship ever worked out well? Has any dictatorship outperformed the success of companies like Apple?
 

Dans La Lune

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Is any successful business run as a democracy? Or by an unaccountable civil service?

That you think a government should be run like a business is a large of the problem. What would be the end goal of running a government like a business? A higher GDP? To what end? For the benefit of who?

And thank you for confirming what I already knew. Yes, Trump supporters prefer dictatorships, as long as they are on the receiving end of the perceived privilege (in truth, they are forfeiting their freedom for the illusion of privilege). Democracies precede dictatorships in many cases. Certain people cannot handle freedom, and need a king/ruler to function.

I hear Caligula was a lot of fun.
 

AmNat

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The government isn’t a business.

What is it?

Has any dictatorship ever worked out well?

Most governments to have ever existed were dictatorships. Most were more effective (adjusted for technology) and less malignant (adjusted or not) than ours.

Has any dictatorship outperformed the success of companies like Apple?

Apple is a dictatorship. So are all successful businesses.
 

AmNat

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That you think a government should be run like a business is a large of the problem. What would be the end goal of running a government like a business? A higher GDP? To what end? For the benefit of who?

The goal of government always depends on the values of those in power. The form of government only directly impacts the government's ability to act in a goal-oriented manner. Though over time it can have a selective effect on the ruling ideology.

I hear Caligula was a lot of fun.

No more than any random period in the late Republic. Caesar and Augustus were a breath of fresh air though.
 

AmNat

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More importantly, what do you think government should do?

"Salus populi suprema lex"

Long experience shows that owners are better stewards than renters or administrators.
 

Integrityrespec

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If you're waiting for the latest controversy or scandal to sink Trump for his supporters, keep waiting. It will never happen. I just watched an analysis on CNN between Chris Cuomo and Dick Gregory over whether Biden can peel off Trump-sympathetic voters in a battle for the soul of the nation. It was really sad how out of touch these people are; that Trump supporters are afraid of the left and like Trump 'in spite of his flaws because the alternative is worse'. As if Biden could just position himself square in the center and it would pull Trump supporters over to his side. Republicans do not want a compromise candidate. Why would they?

The vast majority of Trump's supporters do not like Trump in spite of his behavior, his laughably low intellect, his dictator-like tendencies, his seemingly inability to master object permanence, and utter inability to navigate the very basics of government and cooperative problem solving -- they like him because of it. They are using him to destroy the government and the institutions of modern civilization from within. That's why his support will never drop below a certain very enthusiastic group -- his supporters feel that government is the one thing blocking their their agenda. Whether it's right-wing libertarians, overt racists, Christian fundamentalists, dictators and and aspiring dictator followers, oligarchs, etc... they all share a similar goal, dismantling of effective government.

To a large extent its not emotional, it's ideological. They don't feel uncomfortable with Trump on any level, except perhaps for the PR aspects which impacts their ability to spread their message.

This is the inevitable result of the Republican's shift away being an opposing political party with a different economic philosophy, and towards being a vehicle for the demonization and dismantling of government. A goal which allowed the various factions of conservatism to unite under a single banner decades ago. Trump is the fulfillment of this direction; he IS the chosen one. He is not an aberration.

Anyone who thinks that Trump is doing a good job of managing the government, or that his supporters want effective management government, is not a serious person.

Trump supporters will never vote Biden and are not going to support a Biden Presidency. I suspect if Lying Joe Biden gets elected he will meet with much the same attitude from the opposition party that Trump saw. The nation is divided over policy and it's not likely any President can fix that since the split is very wide.
 

Dans La Lune

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The goal of government always depends on the values of those in power.

People elected through representative democracy, ultimately answerable to the people they govern. What mechanism exists to oust a dictator? Yer guns?

The form of government only directly impacts the government's ability to act in a goal-oriented manner. Though over time it can have a selective effect on the ruling ideology.

What?

No more than any random period in the late Republic. Caesar and Augustus were a breath of fresh air though.

Compared to Caligula.
 

Dans La Lune

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"Salus populi suprema lex"

Long experience shows that owners are better stewards than renters or administrators.

Wow, just wow. That's some powerful wisdom. When did you decide that you want to forfeit your freedom and submit yourself to a master? Honest question.
 

Perotista

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The election is not about hard core Trump supporters or hard core Biden supporters, it's about those in the middle that haven't decided who to vote for.... Haven't seen any recent numbers but am guessing that is around 10-15 percent of voters...

I'd say somewhere between 7-10%. That includes both the undecided and those who state they'll vote other or third party. RCP averages of all the recent polls have Biden ahead 49.9 to 42.8 which would leave an average of only 7.2% in the undecided/third party column. What the polls don't show is the strength of the commitment.

RealClearPolitics - Election 2020 - General Election: Trump vs. Biden

The last three months have shown Biden no lower than 48% and no higher than 51% rounded. Trump has been between 40-43%, no lower and no higher. That's pretty steady. In other words, there hasn't been a big fluctuation one normally gets, especially in the early goings. So it's possible that approximately 88% of the people have their minds made up baring a totally unexpected, unforeseen event or happening upsetting the apple cart.

This is completely opposite of 2016 when at this time, 8 Sep 2016 there were 20% of the electorate still in the undecided/third party column instead of the 7-10% that we have today. We still have a long time to go, we still have the debates and probably a billion dollars worth of TV political ads from both sides. But I would say, Biden is in a very comfortable position as of today.
 
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