What measures do you think the United States should take in response to Russian expansionism in Europe?

[Mircea]

You sure you want to keep shilling for Putin?

You don't seem to understand that it doesn't matter who is charge, the result would be the same, because any Russian leader would want to protect his people from NATO aggression.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

You don't seem to understand that it doesn't matter who is charge, the result would be the same, because any Russian leader would want to protect his people from NATO aggression.

What NATO aggression, it’s a purely defensive organization.

 

[Mircea]

Russian propaganda bullshit. By that same logic does Ukraine need a ****ing buffer state to halt Russian expansionism? Does Ukraine get to invade neighboring Belgorod O'blast or Rostov O'blast to create a "buffer"? Seems right now they have way more of a case seeing as they are the victims of Russian aggression as opposed to the other way around.

If the US can preemptively invade a country, why can't Russia?

Oh, that's right, you're one of the "Do as I say, not as I do" hypocrites and we all know what Jesus thinks about hypocrites.

Your history knowledge is weak.

NATO came first. Did NATO invite East Bloc States to join? Nope, but if NATO had, perhaps you could have spared Ukraine.

The Warsaw Pact didn't exist until 1955. It was created in response to NATO aggression.

Your history books like to tell stories by starting in the middle of the story, instead of the beginning of the story, but then if your history books told stories from the beginning, you'd see how hostile and aggressive NATO is.

Like the Berlin Blockade. The story starts with the US and Britain thumping on Germany to halt war reparations that were justly and legally owed to the Russians under international law and under treaty.

That hostile and aggressive act is what led Russia to respond, not by starting WW III, but by peaceably blocking Berlin.

The Kennedy Political Crisis is another.

Your history books start in the middle of the story, and leave out the beginning of the story, which is that the US/NATO engaged in an hostile and aggressive act by deploying Jupiter IRBMs to Italy and Turkey. The Russian deployment of SS-4 and SS-5 IRBMs to Cuba was in response to the hostile aggressive act by the US.

I could go on and on, but I'm hoping you get the point.

 

[Lord of Planar]

What NATO aggression, it’s a purely defensive organization.

Maybe this will help:

NATO-Ukraine Commission

There are more topics. Not all of the Ukrainian people want this. So many are ethnic Russian and want Russia's help. The western nations have stirred to pot, coming close to starting a civil war.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Maybe this will help:

NATO-Ukraine Commission

There are more topics. Not all of the Ukrainian people want this. So many are ethnic Russian and want Russia's help. The western nations have stirred to pot, coming close to starting a civil war.

You sure are showing your true colors.

 

[Lord of Planar]

You sure are showing your true colors.

Please tell me what my true colors look like when you are wearing your rose colored glasses.

By all means, please to tell.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Please tell me what my true colors look like when you are wearing your rose colored glasses.

By all means, please to tell.

You are acting as an apologist for a dictator that is easily the most corrupt world leader on earth, that has invaded a sovereign nation with a democratically elected government.

 

[Lord of Planar]

You are acting as an apologist for a dictator that is easily the most corrupt world leader on earth, that has invaded a sovereign nation with a democratically elected government.

How do you know he is that way?

Because the M$Ms tell you?

Have you ever been around lots of Ukrainian or Russian people? It appears you only know the propaganda. \

Why does the left want to continue to poke the bear, when we already defeated them in the early 90's?

Why do we need a villain?

Much of what I see reminds me of the movie "Canadian Bacon."

Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

The cold war is over, military contractors are scaling back, the presidents numbers are tanking. So... They create an enemy. Funny thing is, the Russians don't want to play. They like it that the war is over.

Maybe you can explain why how what Russia is doing, is any differenbt that things the USA and other first world nations have done?

 

[ALiberalModerate]

How do you know he is that way?

Because the M$Ms tell you?

Have you ever been around lots of Ukrainian or Russian people? It appears you only know the propaganda. \

Why does the left want to continue to poke the bear, when we already defeated them in the early 90's?

Why do we need a villain?

Much of what I see reminds me of the movie "Canadian Bacon."

Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

The cold war is over, military contractors are scaling back, the presidents numbers are tanking. So... They create an enemy. Funny thing is, the Russians don't want to play. They like it that the war is over.

Maybe you can explain why how what Russia is doing, is any differenbt that things the USA and other first world nations have done?

Russia has invaded a country with a democratically elected leader that posed no threat at all to Russia. Like I say, you are showing your true colors.

 

[cpwill]

Other.

Stay out of it. Do nothing. The leaders of the Ukrainian government are nothing but criminals, and the EU is inept for wanting them to join.

They had a properly elected president.

Their Parliament refused to change the laws that would allow them to get the help they needed from the EU, and improve the time for them to join.

Because their nation was suffering, their president asked Russia for help.

The powers to be went bonkers, and had him ousted. This lead to Crimea defecting, with Russia's help.

Most of the east population is ethnic Russian, and they want Russia's help.

Their criminal action of ousting their president should show they will not be ready for the entrance into the EU any time soon.

The best solution I see is to divide the nation in two, and let the eastern regions join Russia.

This is an interesting alternative history. It is certainly Putin's version. I noticed it leaves out a couple of elections, and actual self-government on the part of the Ukrainians.

Kharkiv is the most "Russian" city in Ukraine. It's citizens were last seen erecting barricades, tossing molotov cocktails at russian vehicles, and risking their lives to kill Russian soldiers (for which they were being bombed by Russian aircraft).

Looks like you and Putin may have been a bit too sure of how the Ukrainians saw events.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Russia has invaded a country with a democratically elected leader that posed no threat at all to Russia. Like I say, you are showing your true colors.

Are you aware of the internal strife over there before Russian agreed to help the ethnic Russians being mistreated?

The last democratically elected leader in the Ukraine had to flee in 2014, when there was an illegal revolt. The current government is very corrupt, and we should not be dealing with them at all.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Are you aware of the internal strife over there before Russian agreed to help the ethnic Russians being mistreated?

The last democratically elected leader in the Ukraine had to flee in 2014, when there was an illegal revolt. The current government is very corrupt, and we should not be dealing with them at all.

Dude, turn the RT off.

 

[Lord of Planar]

This is an interesting alternative history. It is certainly Putin's version.

Kharkiv is the most "Russian" city in Ukraine. It's citizens were last seen erecting barricades, tossing molotov cocktails at russian vehicles, and risking their lives to kill Russian soldiers (for which they were being bombed by Russian aircraft.

Looks like you and Putin may have been a bit too sure of how the Ukrainians saw events.

Were you there, or is that selected media coverage?

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Were you there, or is that selected media coverage?

I am pretty you weren't there.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Dude, turn the RT off.

I never watch it.

Jumping to conclusions noted.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

I never watch it.

Jumping to conclusions noted.

Well you are certainly getting your pro-Putin propaganda somewhere.

 

[Lord of Planar]

I am pretty you weren't there.

I assume you meant to say "I am pretty sure you weren't there."

I have not been there. In 2014 I did some extensive reading on the topic. There are large groups of both Ukrainians and Russians here in Portlandia. I have worked with them, and one family is a next door neighbor.

Ever actually talk to the people from there? It can change one's perspective.

 

[cpwill]

Were you there, or is that selected media coverage?

The citizens of Kharkiv are posting themselves doing it from Kharkiv. Everything that is inconvenient to our priors is not the product of a MSM conspiracy.

 

[Lord of Planar]

The citizens of Kharkiv are posting themselves doing it from Kharkiv. Everything that is inconvenient to our priors is not the product of a MSM conspiracy.

Do you believe twitter as well for news?

 

[cpwill]

Do you believe twitter as well for news?

I believe that you can find events happening on twitter - twitter is not "news" in the sense that Special Report on FOX or the Wall Street Journal are news.

"Everyone On Twitter" is also not involved in a giant conspiracy with the MSM to tell you that the Ukrainians are fighting for their liberty and independence. The group of people busy doing that are called "the Ukrainians". Again, if our take on anything that challenges a prior is "this must be fake news", then all we have is unfalsifiable conspiracy theories, in which every piece of data that doesn't fit a preferred conclusion Is Just More Evidence Of How Sneaky They Are.

The Russian advance around Kharkiv is going slower than their advance along other axes. There are a few reasons for that, but, one of the major ones is the stiff local resistance they are facing from the local populace.

As a Libertarian, no doubt, you are thrilled by the news that another people wish to live under representative government vice an autocratic dictatorship intent on bringing back the Soviet Union's Greatest Hits

 

[Lord of Planar]

I believe that you can find events happening on twitter - twitter is not "news" in the sense that Special Report on FOX or the Wall Street Journal are news.

"Everyone On Twitter" is also not involved in a giant conspiracy with the MSM to tell you that the Ukrainians are fighting for their liberty and independence. The group of people busy doing that are called "the Ukrainians". Again, if our take on anything that challenges a prior is "this must be fake news", then all we have is unfalsifiable conspiracy theories, in which every piece of data that doesn't fit a preferred conclusion Is Just More Evidence Of How Sneaky They Are.

The Russian advance around Kharkiv is going slower than their advance along other axes. There are a few reasons for that, but, one of the major ones is the stiff local resistance they are facing from the local populace.

As a Libertarian, no doubt, you are thrilled by the news that another people wish to live under representative government vice an autocratic dictatorship intent on bringing back the Soviet Union's Greatest Hits

Just keep an open mind.

 

[cpwill]

Just keep an open mind.

I'm always willing to engage new data and see what it says.

But that requires me not tossing out real world results when they clash with my priors under the "well all this must be fake news" heading. That would be an incredibly close-minded approach of me to take, as it would admit no new data that didn't fit with the preferred conclusion.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

I assume you meant to say "I am pretty sure you weren't there."

I have not been there. In 2014 I did some extensive reading on the topic. There are large groups of both Ukrainians and Russians here in Portlandia. I have worked with them, and one family is a next door neighbor.

Ever actually talk to the people from there? It can change one's perspective.

Yes I have talked to people from there and a friend of mine served in the peace corps there and is close friends with many Ukrainians, it's simply not how you are portraying it. Moreover, if it were as you claim, the country would have folded in a day or 2, yet here we see the citizens and the military of Ukraine giving their lives on a daily basis to fight these supposed Russian liberators.

 

[Paradoxical]

Poll is multiple choice. I should also point out that none of these are mutually exclusive. For example, we can increase defense spending and encourage NATO nations to do the same. We can increase oil production and increase efficiency mandates and so on.

Get rid of the scourge of the woke Biden administration

 

[Mongidig]

Get rid of the scourge of the woke Biden administration

The berating of our sitting President during a time of war is un American. This should not be tolerated.