Well how many 4 year olds regardless of race can play Minuite in G? Like one? You said that "my flight instructor, who happens to be black. As far as I can tell, he doesn't even have these feelings of self-invalidation, self-doubt, isolation, and fear that you claim all black people in America have as a result of being black," which definatly hinted that you didn't believe it was prevelant.
Actually, plenty of them can. Minuet in G is part of the Suzuki Violin Method Volume 1.
My point about my flight instructor was not that I don't think internalized racism is prevelant, but rather that I don't think it is permenant. I know for a fact that my flight instructor did not have the best home life in his youth, and was likely subject to a lot of the internalized racism we have discussed.
Instead of perpetuating the cycle by re-enacting it, he directed his energy into a very successful career as a pilot and aerospace engineer.
It was a response to this:
Blacks develop these patterns and act them out on their children because thats how the patterns work. You seriously think blacks have control over the developments of these patterns?
Did I not give you a study that showed the racism is very much present?
I disagree with your assertion that things have not changed. There is less white racism now than there was then.
Your attempts to instigate further racial conflict will not decrease white racism, but will rather increase it.
But even if it is percieved that something whites don't have to think about. They don't have to worry about racism.
Ah, and so by implementing agressive affirmative action, you want to make it so that racism
is something that white have to worry about. And in response, when better qualified applicants get turned down because they already had enough whites at a particular business, whites will become more racist towards blacks. In response to this increase in white racism there will be an increas of black racism, etc...
I just don't see how your method is going to solve any problems.
I expect you to say they should just trust the healthcare system.
Why would I say they should trust the healthcare system?
I don't trust the healthcare system. After Hillary gets elected I
really won't trust the healthcare system.
The fact that blacks do worse when the groups are controlled for socioeconomic status suggests that it must either be internalised racism or genetics. White people arn't using their voodoo powers to magically make black people sick.
Affirmative Action won't solve it in either case, and I suspect it will actually make it worse. Increased racial tension won't be any less of a hardship of black people than it is on white people.
Where did their parents own invalidation come from their parents. The grandparents of those children lived in society that undeniably caused them. White racism started the cycle.
And because of that you want to continue the cycle? People who perpetuate the cycle are just as guilty as those who start it. Its entirely likely that those who started the cycle didn't even really start it.
You think whites never took out their sense of self invalidation and self-doubt and fear by enslaving and abusing blacks? If they did, then by your logic, you can't really blame them for acting upon a distress pattern, since that is what distress patterns do.:roll:
I am sure you could trace passed on feelings of self-invalidation, self doubt, and fear all the way back to the first homo-erectus to leave Africa. He probably got discriminated against for not having as much body hair as his friends.
So really, blacks started the cycle over 10,000 years ago.
I for one don't care who started the cycle. Parents of any colour who take their own self-invalidation self-doubt or fear out on their kids are crappy parents any way you cut it.
White racism also still exists.
Do you seriously think AA will get rid of white racism? Have you ever tried to put out a fire using gasolene?
If white racism is gone then the inferiority complex will go away.
White racism going away isn't going to turn crappy parents into good parents. It isn't going to stop people from passing down a family tradition of self-invalidation.
AA isn't going to make white racism go away, and it isn't going to make the elements of black culture that reinforce the tendency to take self-invalidation out on children go away either.
But the kids don't just pick it up from their parents they pick it up from TV.
Art reflects life an life reflects art. Whichever way you push the cycle, art will keep it going in that direction. If an entire generation of black children grew up speaking with a Northern Irish accent, you would see black kids on tv speaking wih a Northern Irish accent, which would further increase the stereotype and lead more black kids to speak in a Northern Irish accent.
If you implement aggressive affirmative action, you will get shows with white protaganists being unfairly treated by the system, for the simple reason that there would be an audience for it. You would then have a brand spanking new stereotype of middle class black kids using the system as a crutch and laughing at the poor white kids they are sticking it to. This for the simple reason that there would be an audience for it.
They will be victims of white racism when they get older. The invalidation will develop whether or not their parents pass it on.
Ah, here we come to why I brought up my flight instructor. He didn't develop invalidation. He started with it, decided it was useless, and got rid of it.
The wealth gap if you read the source is not due to internalized racism. It is due to past racism. How did you benefit? Your ancestors were allowed to compete freely, they were allowed to accumulate wealth.
First of all, I havn't recieved any money from my family, and with any luck I shant for a good long while.
Second of all, even i I did, your argument makes no sense.
You are claiming that if a bunch of idiots in America didn't portray blacks as savages and didn't make fun of them or put them in ghettos that my anscestors in Europe wouldn't have been allowed to compete freely and aquire wealth? What kind of argument is that?
Probably some dude in China is raping some girl in China right now. Is that somehow giving you some sort of benefit that you can pass on to your children?
If you go for a job it is likely the interviewer will be white.
I have already gone for a couple of interviews. My first minimum wage job at a music store I got hired by a guy who was a Philipino/Simoan mix.
Then when he got promoted, (passing up several white male store managers in the process) I filled his position.
Then I got hired by an Asian lady.
No in-group bias helping me out I am afraid.
Your less likely to be harrassed by police,
I drive the speed limit, never even tried marujuana, and always party with a designated driver.
Besides of which, AA won't make police officers less racist. I don't trust them any more than I trust our health care system.
less likely to be a victim of violence,
I think everyone who excersizes their second amendment rights is less likely to be a victim of violence.
How does the saying go? God made men, Sam Colt made 'em equal.
more likely recieve adequate healthcare,
I get healthcare from a job that I worked my way up to from the very bottom, without in-group bias helping me out.
more likely to recieve a fair trial,
You got me there. Blacks get royally screwed in our legal system.
Still, that isn't a benefit I recieved because a bunch of idiots in America portrayed blacks as savages and made fun of them and put them in ghettos.
If none of that had happened, my trial would remain unaffected. I did not benefit from it, blacks just got screwed by it. I don't benefit at all from blacks getting screwed by our legal system, and if blacks started getting fair trials, it wouldn't make mine any less fair.
In any event, AA won't solve that either. Getting rid of lawyers would solve it though I think. I don't think there is any problem in our legal system that can't be traced back to lawyers.
But you have nothing left to hide behind. You can't hide behind Cosby, he's a hypocrite.
Cosby is a man who made mistakes, acknowledged them, and maybe even learned from them. His advocacy of taking charge of ones own life has no less merit because of it.
You can't hide behind asian success, i debunked that.
No you didn't. You said that a bunch of Asians moved here recently. If the system of white privililege were so powerful as you proclaim, they should not have been able to compete, much less outpace white America after they came here.
They should have come here with high hopes, run into a barrier of white privilige, and gone home in disgust.
Besides of which, recent Asian immigrants arn't the only ones doing well. Asian students score higher in school across the board. Their average income is over 10% hiher than whites. How does having recently immigrated here give them that much of an advantage in a society whose very foundation you claim is based on giving white people every advantage possible and systematticaly keeping everyone else out?
Your argument doesn't add up at all.
You can't hide behind the idea that I imagine the racism.
There is some racism left, but certainly not as much as you imagine there is.
Whats left of it is quickly dying off and will be gone completely within two or three generations unless someone succeeds in reviving widespread racial tension.
So what do you do? You pass up all that I debunk and claim everything else to be internalized.
What exactly have I claimed to be an effect of internalized racism that you are claiming is not?
That internalized racism is a result of white racism but you blame it on them.
You have any evidence to suggest that humans haven't been passing feelings of self-invalidation, self-doubt and fear on to other humans for the past 10,000 years? Otherwise I maintain that blacks started it before they left Africa the first time.
Sure AA can't cure it but blacks in higher socioeconomic status can more properly protect themselves from racism. AA can help remove the white racism that causes it.
Where is your evidence that AA will remove racism? And please find something other than another J Stor link that I can't access.
But at worst maybe the fact that we have to this internalized oppression maybe because we have to live with we should get a little prefrence. Maybe because we would do better if we didn't have it. Whites made sure AA was only a tiebreaker but many of them don't even want that.
Maybe the team whose average height is shorter should get some free throws in basketball games to make up for their disadvantage.
Maybe a competetive weightlifter who doesn't have as much musclemass as a result of his genetic heritage shouldn't have to lift as much in order to win.
Maybe musicians who wern't born with perfect pitch should be given preferential treatment to those who were.
Maybe because dumb people would do better if they were smarter, dumb people should get preferential treatment, after all it isn't their fault that they're dumb. Maybe maybe mabye...