• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

What Liz Cheney has figured out about Donald Trump and 2024

j brown's body

A hail fellow well met
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
15,926
Reaction score
8,614
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Communist
I liked Trump because he was a fighter. His main problem was all too often he was obnoxious. He should have learned how to use humor more often to attack his opponents and to ignore criticism form people who don’t matter.

For the next president I could prefer a conservative fighter who wasn’t wimpy, wimpy, wimpy like RINO Romney. A younger candidate not afraid to take on the democrats and the liberal media and someone who does not believe this nation should be a socialist workers paradise.

Since I ive in Florida I have watched my Governor, Ron DeSantis with interest. He may well be the candidate I back for president if he chooses to run. He is a fighter and his leadership durning the COVID-19 pandemic has made living in Florida much easier than living in many other states. He also doesn’t love BLM and Antifa riots like so many other governors do. Shortly he will sign a tough law to deal with rioters in Florida.


Not sure why being a fighter matters when you only fight for yourself.
 

gbg3

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2020
Messages
2,528
Reaction score
1,255
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
I liked Trump because he was a fighter. His main problem was all too often he was obnoxious. He should have learned how to use humor more often to attack his opponents and to ignore criticism form people who don’t matter.

For the next president I could prefer a conservative fighter who wasn’t wimpy, wimpy, wimpy like RINO Romney. A younger candidate not afraid to take on the democrats and the liberal media and someone who does not believe this nation should be a socialist workers paradise.

Since I ive in Florida I have watched my Governor, Ron DeSantis with interest. He may well be the candidate I back for president if he chooses to run. He is a fighter and his leadership durning the COVID-19 pandemic has made living in Florida much easier than living in many other states. He also doesn’t love BLM and Antifa riots like so many other governors do. Shortly he will sign a tough law to deal with rioters in Florida.

I think the whole country is watching DeSantis, both Republicans and Democrats. I think Democrats are going after him harder than anyone else, because he's their biggest concern right now. Republicans, who don't live in Florida, wish DeSantis was their governor. He's one potential candidate I'll be watching with interest. I don't know much about him yet so I googled and read Wikipedia about him - and he has a very impressive resume. I was a bit surprised at his resume because he's not the overly polished type at all, which I think is a bonus for him. I can imagine he could appeal to many.
 

Quag

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 8, 2012
Messages
29,130
Reaction score
12,716
Location
Earth
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Not sure why being a fighter matters when you only fight for yourself.
Even at that he was lazy, he was all talk and no actual fight.
He loved to pick fights with people but aside from obnoxious comments and threats to sue he never actually did anything
 

Glitch

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 3, 2019
Messages
10,016
Reaction score
3,575
Location
Alaska (61.5°N, -149°W)
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I think the whole country is watching DeSantis, both Republicans and Democrats. I think Democrats are going after him harder than anyone else, because he's their biggest concern right now. Republicans, who don't live in Florida, wish DeSantis was their governor. He's one potential candidate I'll be watching with interest. I don't know much about him yet so I googled and read Wikipedia about him - and he has a very impressive resume. I was a bit surprised at his resume because he's not the overly polished type at all, which I think is a bonus for him. I can imagine he could appeal to many.
I have a few issues with my Governor, but I certainly would not want DeSantis as Governor of Alaska. That would be disastrous!

I will admit, however, it is very uncommon to see a Republican with a back-bone. That is the only reason both DeSantis and Trump stood out in the Republican crowd - they have a spine. Nobody else in the Republican Party does.
 

Batcat

Active member
Joined
Dec 5, 2016
Messages
350
Reaction score
93
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Not sure why being a fighter matters when you only fight for yourself.

A political fighter can fight for a large number of people. Such an individual will tell a large group of people in a political party that he will do his best to represent their views and will make promises on what he hopes to accomplish.

Trump fit that image and to a large degree delivered on many if not most of his promises. Trump was a vast improvement over the previous Republican candidate for president, Mitt Romney, who was a RINO who managed to fool no one.
 

911Sparky

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2020
Messages
1,655
Reaction score
1,139
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Moderate
After Joe drags the country into one mess after another Donald Trump will have a huge resurgence and he will be back. Cheney betrayed the republican voters with her behavior.
I know, the pillow guy has already stated trump will be back in office by August, although he gave no indication as to how that would happen. trump will have no resurgence, as he will be busy fighting civil and criminal cases for years, and if he did run there are enough of us who saw through him to eliminate any chance of his re-election.
 

gbg3

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 24, 2020
Messages
2,528
Reaction score
1,255
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
A political fighter can fight for a large number of people. Such an individual will tell a large group of people in a political party that he will do his best to represent their views and will make promises on what he hopes to accomplish.

Trump fit that image and to a large degree delivered on many if not most of his promises. Trump was a vast improvement over the previous Republican candidate for president, Mitt Romney, who was a RINO who managed to fool no one.
Trump was someone who boldly said what he would do - even it it was different from what other candidates were discussing. He'd say it again and again and stick to it/not flip flop. Then, very much to my surprise, he took office and worked on precisely those things. SUCH a change from what most do once in office. He just bypassed the swamp and tried to knock them aside but the swamp in both parties is thick and murky. Trump's personality was hated by so many, liked/loved by others, noticed by all - and that all got in his way. But, Trump policy was excellent and his ability to think outside the box was incredible. It would not surprise me at all if he runs again and, after Joe, it would not surprise me at all if Trump won again. The Dem party successfully hid Joe during the campaign and I think SO many thought Joe would truly be the moderate who would unite. Instead, he's turned out to be the puppet willing to go as far left as anyone cares to push him - and instead of calm/boring, the policy and actions have been shocking (and crazy).
Trump is laying surprisingly low publicly (and I read he's lost 20 lbs. and quit the spray tan) but, the few times he's done interviews, he sounds like he's very interested in running. I think he just wants to see how 2022 goes and how influential he can be at helping to drain the congressional swamp in 2022. I also think Trump doesn't want to try to own the news cycle because, it appears Trump has been convinced (and I doubt it was easy to convince him), it's far better Biden own it. It's extremely important Americans hear all about what Biden and the Dem party has done, is doing and wants to do.
 

Batcat

Active member
Joined
Dec 5, 2016
Messages
350
Reaction score
93
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Trump was someone who boldly said what he would do - even it it was different from what other candidates were discussing. He'd say it again and again and stick to it/not flip flop. Then, very much to my surprise, he took office and worked on precisely those things. SUCH a change from what most do once in office. He just bypassed the swamp and tried to knock them aside but the swamp in both parties is thick and murky. Trump's personality was hated by so many, liked/loved by others, noticed by all - and that all got in his way. But, Trump policy was excellent and his ability to think outside the box was incredible. It would not surprise me at all if he runs again and, after Joe, it would not surprise me at all if Trump won again. The Dem party successfully hid Joe during the campaign and I think SO many thought Joe would truly be the moderate who would unite. Instead, he's turned out to be the puppet willing to go as far left as anyone cares to push him - and instead of calm/boring, the policy and actions have been shocking (and crazy).
Trump is laying surprisingly low publicly (and I read he's lost 20 lbs. and quit the spray tan) but, the few times he's done interviews, he sounds like he's very interested in running. I think he just wants to see how 2022 goes and how influential he can be at helping to drain the congressional swamp in 2022. I also think Trump doesn't want to try to own the news cycle because, it appears Trump has been convinced (and I doubt it was easy to convince him), it's far better Biden own it. It's extremely important Americans hear all about what Biden and the Dem party has done, is doing and wants to do.
Obviously if Trump is a candidate for President he will get my vote If for no other reason than he will upset the political establishment and the Deep State if elected.
 

tshade

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 12, 2021
Messages
662
Reaction score
263
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Moderate
1. Trump is correct. The only way Cheney can win in 2022 is by way of a vote splitting tactic. That tactic has been used before by the GOP Elites, most recently in the 2016 Republican primary. (it didn't work, though) I probably won't work in 2022 for Cheney, either.

2. Those who find it "very hard to imagine how Trump doesn't remain deeply damaged goods" find that hard to imagine because they believe their own BS. Unfortunately for them, a LOT of American don't believe their BS...including Democrats and Independents.

3. As far as why Cheney is shooting her mouth off about Trump, it doesn't matter...except to the Trump hating media because it gives them something to spout of about that's anti-Trump...like that article. They are desperately trying to manipulate people with their propaganda.

4. The fact is, if Trump decides to run in 2024, he will be President again. If he doesn't decide to run, then whomever he endorses will be President.
May I ask why you think Trump is the best to be president?? Over half the nation thinks the opposite. The division is deep.
 

tshade

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 12, 2021
Messages
662
Reaction score
263
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Moderate
Obviously if Trump is a candidate for President he will get my vote If for no other reason than he will upset the political establishment and the Deep State if elected.
What is so wrong with the nation that you would want Trump back in???
 

tshade

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 12, 2021
Messages
662
Reaction score
263
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Moderate
Trump was someone who boldly said what he would do - even it it was different from what other candidates were discussing. He'd say it again and again and stick to it/not flip flop. Then, very much to my surprise, he took office and worked on precisely those things. SUCH a change from what most do once in office. He just bypassed the swamp and tried to knock them aside but the swamp in both parties is thick and murky. Trump's personality was hated by so many, liked/loved by others, noticed by all - and that all got in his way. But, Trump policy was excellent and his ability to think outside the box was incredible. It would not surprise me at all if he runs again and, after Joe, it would not surprise me at all if Trump won again. The Dem party successfully hid Joe during the campaign and I think SO many thought Joe would truly be the moderate who would unite. Instead, he's turned out to be the puppet willing to go as far left as anyone cares to push him - and instead of calm/boring, the policy and actions have been shocking (and crazy).
Trump is laying surprisingly low publicly (and I read he's lost 20 lbs. and quit the spray tan) but, the few times he's done interviews, he sounds like he's very interested in running. I think he just wants to see how 2022 goes and how influential he can be at helping to drain the congressional swamp in 2022. I also think Trump doesn't want to try to own the news cycle because, it appears Trump has been convinced (and I doubt it was easy to convince him), it's far better Biden own it. It's extremely important Americans hear all about what Biden and the Dem party has done, is doing and wants to do.
What, in the name of all that's holy, did Trump DO besides destroy the economy and help kill 500, 000 people from poor leadership??? Seriously? I challenge you to name ONE item only that puts trump ahead of either HRC or Biden, or just about anyone else for that matter. Just one. I will effectively counter any item you choose. Let's debate !
 

Batcat

Active member
Joined
Dec 5, 2016
Messages
350
Reaction score
93
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
What is so wrong with the nation that you would want Trump back in???
I don’t like the fact that Joe Biden sold his inference to China our, largest enemy, Using his son Hunter as the bagman. That means China owns Sleepy Joe and can take advantage of him. China wins, we lose.


 

Craig234

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2019
Messages
17,787
Reaction score
6,366
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
my concern is that the next person that the Republicans nominate will actually be intelligent enough to do more lasting damage. Punkinhead's ridiculously incompetent clown show mostly just let the rich raid the treasury and gave him a chance to undo Obama's legacy for a couple years. an intelligent Republican might be able to destroy our social safety nets while claiming to just be trying to make them better.

When you combine the con man of trump, the depravity of a Hitler, and the merciless corruption of a Koch, you get the danger you're talking about. trump is incompetent at actually pursuing evil more competently, Koch is unable to get elected (Koch tried as the Libertarian VP candidate in 1972), and so on. What's scary is how oblivious Republican voters are to the evil, and what willing cult members they are.
 

RaleBulgarian

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 20, 2018
Messages
20,687
Reaction score
9,085
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
"On Wednesday, Rep. Liz Cheney was asked a straightforward question by Fox News' Neil Cavuto: "If Donald Trump were the 2024 nominee, would you support him?" And the Wyoming House Republican gave an equally straightforward answer: "I would not." ... her outspokenness about Trump could cost her in 2022 as he works to primary her, which the ex-President added to with this statement released Wednesday night: "She is so far down in Wyoming polls that the only way she can win is numerous candidates running against her and splitting the vote. Hopefully, that won't happen. I'll make an Endorsement soon!"

... it's very hard to imagine how Trump doesn't remain deeply damaged goods to the general electorate in 2024. Democrats -- even many moderate and conservative ones -- will NEVER consider voting for him because of his actions in office, all of which culminated with January 6 and its aftermath. And it's almost as hard to imagine how independents, who tend to be swayed by the mood of the country and the economy, would opt for Trump amid what is almost certain to be a boom time in the country -- economically and otherwise -- following the battle against the Covid-19 virus.

...So, why is Cheney on an island in seeing how little Trump has of winning -- when compared to the rest of the 2024 aspirants? Well, she isn't. She's just the only one (or one of the only ones) willing to say it. Because the paradox of Trump is that while he is utterly damaged in a general election, he may well be unbeatable in a Republican presidential primary. Which is why the likes of former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley ruled out running in 2024 if Trump is in the race because, well, what's the point?

Fear remains the dominant emotion when it comes to how Republican elected officials view Trump. And it's that fear that could well relegate them to a near-certain second Trump loss in 2024 unless they find some political courage between now and then."

Link

I think she is right that Trump is not the path to victory in the general election in 2024. But is he unbeatable in the Republican primary? All the other speculative candidates: Hawley, Cruz, Cotton, Haley, Hogan, DeSantis, Rubion, etc. will be happy to throw dirt on his sagging fortunes should they decline (or atr the very least do nothing to lift them up). And I don't see his fortunes going anywhere but down. If they do, will Cheney be rewarded for getting their first, or blamed for getting the ball rolling?
Whatever happens with Cheney’s political career, short term, in the long run she’ll come out on top.
 

Batcat

Active member
Joined
Dec 5, 2016
Messages
350
Reaction score
93
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
What, in the name of all that's holy, did Trump DO besides destroy the economy and help kill 500, 000 people from poor leadership??? Seriously? I challenge you to name ONE item only that puts trump ahead of either HRC or Biden, or just about anyone else for that matter. Just one. I will effectively counter any item you choose. Let's debate !

Poor leadership? If Joe Biden, Obama or any other democrat or republican had been in the Oval Office we would have ZERO vaccines at this time. It would be in development for the next couple of years.

 

RaleBulgarian

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 20, 2018
Messages
20,687
Reaction score
9,085
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
1. Trump is correct. The only way Cheney can win in 2022 is by way of a vote splitting tactic. That tactic has been used before by the GOP Elites, most recently in the 2016 Republican primary. (it didn't work, though) I probably won't work in 2022 for Cheney, either.

2. Those who find it "very hard to imagine how Trump doesn't remain deeply damaged goods" find that hard to imagine because they believe their own BS. Unfortunately for them, a LOT of American don't believe their BS...including Democrats and Independents.

3. As far as why Cheney is shooting her mouth off about Trump, it doesn't matter...except to the Trump hating media because it gives them something to spout of about that's anti-Trump...like that article. They are desperately trying to manipulate people with their propaganda.

4. The fact is, if Trump decides to run in 2024, he will be President again. If he doesn't decide to run, then whomever he endorses will be President.
Unfortunately for Trumpsters like yourself, MOST is more than “a LOT”.

And as for Trump running and winning in 2024, bwahahahaha!!! 🤣
 

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
71,348
Reaction score
28,167
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
May I ask why you think Trump is the best to be president?? Over half the nation thinks the opposite. The division is deep.
Because, unlike the other half, I am not affected by propaganda. I examine facts and think for myself.

The facts clearly show that Trump is best for America.
 

Craig234

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2019
Messages
17,787
Reaction score
6,366
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Here's the situation. Remember Bernie was the frontrunner in 2020, but all the rest had more corporate/party ties that made them united against Bernie, able (with Obama's pushing behind the scenes) to unite to jointly oppose him?

In one way, that's the situation with trump. All the candidates have loyalty to the far-right donors and want to defeat trump, who is loyal to his own ego (Bernie was loyal to the American people).

But while the Democrats could pretty openly oppose Bernie, just having to be 'nice enough' to not alienate his supporters TOO much as they needed their votes, the Republicans have to pretend to be loyal trump supporters while looking for how to defeat him. So far, they're just hoping something will happen without their having to attack him like Liz Cheney.

It's sort of each of them wanting another to find a way to stick in a knife and get the wrath of the trump voters, so the rest can pretend to be on trump's side and try to get those votes. trump understands this dynamic well and is very able to rule them with threats.

Probably the best thing that could happen for Democrats is for trump to get the nomination and take the whole party down. THEN they will turn on him. But what seems more likely is for trump to try to grift, but not actually run knowing he'd lose, and just try to get things from the process. But the temptation to run and fundraise and get all that money might be tempting.

Liz Cheney is a horrible person. She has the freedom to attack trump more because trump has been openly trying to get her fired from her position. She was already monstrous before any of the conflicts with trump. The Republicans rode trump in 2016 when he beat them all - but he's an anchor also. Now he's a gift to Democrats.

My guess is the best thing the Republicans could do is persuade trump to be a 'kingmaker', not a candidate, offering him rewards and praise to try to use him as a frontman telling his cult to vote for Republicans, without having him as an anchor in the general election.

A little like many Democrats felt with Hillary in 2016 - that she was a force they couldn't stop, but an anchor for the party dragging it down. Imagine if Hillary had decided to drop out and strongly back Bernie in 2016. We'd have had a far better situation.
 

Craig234

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2019
Messages
17,787
Reaction score
6,366
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Poor leadership? If Joe Biden, Obama or any other democrat or republican had been in the Oval Office we would have ZERO vaccines at this time. It would be in development for the next couple of years.

I see the cult is fully in operation. Because ya, the party that created the pandemic preparation plan trump threw out and disbanded just hated the goal of a vaccine and wouldn't listen to the experts like Dr. Fauci.
 

Grand Mal

Question authority
DP Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2013
Messages
38,083
Reaction score
20,118
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Liberal
I have a few issues with my Governor, but I certainly would not want DeSantis as Governor of Alaska. That would be disastrous!

I will admit, however, it is very uncommon to see a Republican with a back-bone. That is the only reason both DeSantis and Trump stood out in the Republican crowd - they have a spine. Nobody else in the Republican Party does.
And Trump isn't even a Republican. He's a populist who hijacked a political party to be a vehicle to take him to power.
Hm. What does that remind me of?
 

Craig234

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2019
Messages
17,787
Reaction score
6,366
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
He just bypassed the swamp and tried to knock them aside but the swamp in both parties is thick and murky. Trump's personality was hated by so many, liked/loved by others, noticed by all - and that all got in his way. But, Trump policy was excellent and his ability to think outside the box was incredible.

It's like watching a four year old blind child push his way into an operating room for brain surgery and grab a scalpel and start stabbing the patient's head, killing him, and seeing people say 'oh the child is a prodigy, so much better than the usual idiot surgeons, but some people are haters and don't understand how excellent he was, incredible at thinking outside the box!' It's like watching North Koreans praise great leader getting 18 holes in one in a row.
 

Glitch

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 3, 2019
Messages
10,016
Reaction score
3,575
Location
Alaska (61.5°N, -149°W)
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
And Trump isn't even a Republican. He's a populist who hijacked a political party to be a vehicle to take him to power.
Hm. What does that remind me of?
Technically, Trump became a Republican in 2012. However, for the overwhelming majority of his life, you are correct. Trump was, and still is at heart, a New York City Democrat leftist. That was made very apparent by his desire to violate the Due Process clause of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments in order to seize firearms. He would not be the first Democrat to pretend to be Republican either.

We get a lot of dishonest Democrat pretenders in Alaska. They claim to be "Independent" but they run and get nominated in the Democratic Party State primary, and then get their nose bent out of shape when the State refuses to list them as an Independent and lists them as a Democrat instead.

In the last election alone there were 25 Republican and 15 Democrat State House Representatives. However, because six of the Republicans were actually Democrats in disguise they decided to caucus with the Democrats, giving them a 21 to 19 majority. It is just another level of leftist dishonesty with which we have to contend.

It has resulted in streamlining the recall process. We can get a recall petition on the next ballot in a matter of weeks now, thanks to the dishonesty of leftist filth.
 

reflechissez

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Messages
3,827
Reaction score
1,831
Location
Wakanda
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
He had no chance from the beginning, because the dems and the media were against from day one. All because he beat your queen Hillary.
Good thing there were no republicans who were critical of trump. Oh....wait...
 
Top Bottom