• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

What Liz Cheney has figured out about Donald Trump and 2024

j brown's body

A hail fellow well met
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
15,890
Reaction score
8,571
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Communist
"On Wednesday, Rep. Liz Cheney was asked a straightforward question by Fox News' Neil Cavuto: "If Donald Trump were the 2024 nominee, would you support him?" And the Wyoming House Republican gave an equally straightforward answer: "I would not." ... her outspokenness about Trump could cost her in 2022 as he works to primary her, which the ex-President added to with this statement released Wednesday night: "She is so far down in Wyoming polls that the only way she can win is numerous candidates running against her and splitting the vote. Hopefully, that won't happen. I'll make an Endorsement soon!"

... it's very hard to imagine how Trump doesn't remain deeply damaged goods to the general electorate in 2024. Democrats -- even many moderate and conservative ones -- will NEVER consider voting for him because of his actions in office, all of which culminated with January 6 and its aftermath. And it's almost as hard to imagine how independents, who tend to be swayed by the mood of the country and the economy, would opt for Trump amid what is almost certain to be a boom time in the country -- economically and otherwise -- following the battle against the Covid-19 virus.

...So, why is Cheney on an island in seeing how little Trump has of winning -- when compared to the rest of the 2024 aspirants? Well, she isn't. She's just the only one (or one of the only ones) willing to say it. Because the paradox of Trump is that while he is utterly damaged in a general election, he may well be unbeatable in a Republican presidential primary. Which is why the likes of former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley ruled out running in 2024 if Trump is in the race because, well, what's the point?

Fear remains the dominant emotion when it comes to how Republican elected officials view Trump. And it's that fear that could well relegate them to a near-certain second Trump loss in 2024 unless they find some political courage between now and then."

Link

I think she is right that Trump is not the path to victory in the general election in 2024. But is he unbeatable in the Republican primary? All the other speculative candidates: Hawley, Cruz, Cotton, Haley, Hogan, DeSantis, Rubion, etc. will be happy to throw dirt on his sagging fortunes should they decline (or atr the very least do nothing to lift them up). And I don't see his fortunes going anywhere but down. If they do, will Cheney be rewarded for getting their first, or blamed for getting the ball rolling?
 

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
71,348
Reaction score
28,165
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
"On Wednesday, Rep. Liz Cheney was asked a straightforward question by Fox News' Neil Cavuto: "If Donald Trump were the 2024 nominee, would you support him?" And the Wyoming House Republican gave an equally straightforward answer: "I would not." ... her outspokenness about Trump could cost her in 2022 as he works to primary her, which the ex-President added to with this statement released Wednesday night: "She is so far down in Wyoming polls that the only way she can win is numerous candidates running against her and splitting the vote. Hopefully, that won't happen. I'll make an Endorsement soon!"

... it's very hard to imagine how Trump doesn't remain deeply damaged goods to the general electorate in 2024. Democrats -- even many moderate and conservative ones -- will NEVER consider voting for him because of his actions in office, all of which culminated with January 6 and its aftermath. And it's almost as hard to imagine how independents, who tend to be swayed by the mood of the country and the economy, would opt for Trump amid what is almost certain to be a boom time in the country -- economically and otherwise -- following the battle against the Covid-19 virus.

...So, why is Cheney on an island in seeing how little Trump has of winning -- when compared to the rest of the 2024 aspirants? Well, she isn't. She's just the only one (or one of the only ones) willing to say it. Because the paradox of Trump is that while he is utterly damaged in a general election, he may well be unbeatable in a Republican presidential primary. Which is why the likes of former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley ruled out running in 2024 if Trump is in the race because, well, what's the point?

Fear remains the dominant emotion when it comes to how Republican elected officials view Trump. And it's that fear that could well relegate them to a near-certain second Trump loss in 2024 unless they find some political courage between now and then."

Link

I think she is right that Trump is not the path to victory in the general election in 2024. But is he unbeatable in the Republican primary? All the other speculative candidates: Hawley, Cruz, Cotton, Haley, Hogan, DeSantis, Rubion, etc. will be happy to throw dirt on his sagging fortunes should they decline (or atr the very least do nothing to lift them up). And I don't see his fortunes going anywhere but down. If they do, will Cheney be rewarded for getting their first, or blamed for getting the ball rolling?
1. Trump is correct. The only way Cheney can win in 2022 is by way of a vote splitting tactic. That tactic has been used before by the GOP Elites, most recently in the 2016 Republican primary. (it didn't work, though) I probably won't work in 2022 for Cheney, either.

2. Those who find it "very hard to imagine how Trump doesn't remain deeply damaged goods" find that hard to imagine because they believe their own BS. Unfortunately for them, a LOT of American don't believe their BS...including Democrats and Independents.

3. As far as why Cheney is shooting her mouth off about Trump, it doesn't matter...except to the Trump hating media because it gives them something to spout of about that's anti-Trump...like that article. They are desperately trying to manipulate people with their propaganda.

4. The fact is, if Trump decides to run in 2024, he will be President again. If he doesn't decide to run, then whomever he endorses will be President.
 

tres borrachos

HoHoHo
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 20, 2012
Messages
79,697
Reaction score
54,925
Location
New England
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
1. Trump is correct. The only way Cheney can win in 2022 is by way of a vote splitting tactic. That tactic has been used before by the GOP Elites, most recently in the 2016 Republican primary. (it didn't work, though) I probably won't work in 2022 for Cheney, either.

2. Those who find it "very hard to imagine how Trump doesn't remain deeply damaged goods" find that hard to imagine because they believe their own BS. Unfortunately for them, a LOT of American don't believe their BS...including Democrats and Independents.

3. As far as why Cheney is shooting her mouth off about Trump, it doesn't matter...except to the Trump hating media because it gives them something to spout of about that's anti-Trump...like that article. They are desperately trying to manipulate people with their propaganda.

4. The fact is, if Trump decides to run in 2024, he will be President again. If he doesn't decide to run, then whomever he endorses will be President.

Trump will win in 2024 like he won in 2020, right?
 

SNOWFLAKE

Crazy Canuck
Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Messages
7,503
Reaction score
3,643
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
1. Trump is correct. The only way Cheney can win in 2022 is by way of a vote splitting tactic. That tactic has been used before by the GOP Elites, most recently in the 2016 Republican primary. (it didn't work, though) I probably won't work in 2022 for Cheney, either.

2. Those who find it "very hard to imagine how Trump doesn't remain deeply damaged goods" find that hard to imagine because they believe their own BS. Unfortunately for them, a LOT of American don't believe their BS...including Democrats and Independents.

3. As far as why Cheney is shooting her mouth off about Trump, it doesn't matter...except to the Trump hating media because it gives them something to spout of about that's anti-Trump...like that article. They are desperately trying to manipulate people with their propaganda.

4. The fact is, if Trump decides to run in 2024, he will be President again. If he doesn't decide to run, then whomever he endorses will be President.
images.jpg
 

SNOWFLAKE

Crazy Canuck
Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Messages
7,503
Reaction score
3,643
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Why would ANYONE support someone like Liz Cheney when we have bootlickers like Majorie Taylor Greene to lead the country.

MAGA!


And one wonders why there are so many mental issues in the good ole U.S. of A.
 

j brown's body

A hail fellow well met
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
15,890
Reaction score
8,571
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Communist
1. Trump is correct. The only way Cheney can win in 2022 is by way of a vote splitting tactic. That tactic has been used before by the GOP Elites, most recently in the 2016 Republican primary. (it didn't work, though) I probably won't work in 2022 for Cheney, either.

2. Those who find it "very hard to imagine how Trump doesn't remain deeply damaged goods" find that hard to imagine because they believe their own BS. Unfortunately for them, a LOT of American don't believe their BS...including Democrats and Independents.

3. As far as why Cheney is shooting her mouth off about Trump, it doesn't matter...except to the Trump hating media because it gives them something to spout of about that's anti-Trump...like that article. They are desperately trying to manipulate people with their propaganda.

4. The fact is, if Trump decides to run in 2024, he will be President again. If he doesn't decide to run, then whomever he endorses will be President.

I think he's fading already. His calling McConnell a "son of a bitch" was met with shrugs. He made himself a popular vessel of grievance, but all of his grievances now relate just to him and not much else. His complaining about a stolen election has grown tiresome. I don't think its there for him anymore.
 

tres borrachos

HoHoHo
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 20, 2012
Messages
79,697
Reaction score
54,925
Location
New England
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
"On Wednesday, Rep. Liz Cheney was asked a straightforward question by Fox News' Neil Cavuto: "If Donald Trump were the 2024 nominee, would you support him?" And the Wyoming House Republican gave an equally straightforward answer: "I would not." ... her outspokenness about Trump could cost her in 2022 as he works to primary her, which the ex-President added to with this statement released Wednesday night: "She is so far down in Wyoming polls that the only way she can win is numerous candidates running against her and splitting the vote. Hopefully, that won't happen. I'll make an Endorsement soon!"

... it's very hard to imagine how Trump doesn't remain deeply damaged goods to the general electorate in 2024. Democrats -- even many moderate and conservative ones -- will NEVER consider voting for him because of his actions in office, all of which culminated with January 6 and its aftermath. And it's almost as hard to imagine how independents, who tend to be swayed by the mood of the country and the economy, would opt for Trump amid what is almost certain to be a boom time in the country -- economically and otherwise -- following the battle against the Covid-19 virus.

...So, why is Cheney on an island in seeing how little Trump has of winning -- when compared to the rest of the 2024 aspirants? Well, she isn't. She's just the only one (or one of the only ones) willing to say it. Because the paradox of Trump is that while he is utterly damaged in a general election, he may well be unbeatable in a Republican presidential primary. Which is why the likes of former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley ruled out running in 2024 if Trump is in the race because, well, what's the point?

Fear remains the dominant emotion when it comes to how Republican elected officials view Trump. And it's that fear that could well relegate them to a near-certain second Trump loss in 2024 unless they find some political courage between now and then."

Link

I think she is right that Trump is not the path to victory in the general election in 2024. But is he unbeatable in the Republican primary? All the other speculative candidates: Hawley, Cruz, Cotton, Haley, Hogan, DeSantis, Rubion, etc. will be happy to throw dirt on his sagging fortunes should they decline (or atr the very least do nothing to lift them up). And I don't see his fortunes going anywhere but down. If they do, will Cheney be rewarded for getting their first, or blamed for getting the ball rolling?

Hawley and Cruz are traitors and hopefully there aren't enough stupid people to support them. Haley didn't do herself any good with her "Trump is the devil" in February comments followed by her oozing gushiness this week about him. DeSantis is Trump lite. Rubio was my candidate in 2016 but he has disappointed me with his petty behavior.

I'd love to see Charlie Baker or Chris Sununu toss their names in. I'd vote for either one of them.
 

Mr Person

A Little Bitter
Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Messages
46,616
Reaction score
30,245
Location
Massachusetts
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Other
1. Trump is correct. The only way Cheney can win in 2022 is by way of a vote splitting tactic. That tactic has been used before by the GOP Elites, most recently in the 2016 Republican primary. (it didn't work, though) I probably won't work in 2022 for Cheney, either.
2. Those who find it "very hard to imagine how Trump doesn't remain deeply damaged goods" find that hard to imagine because they believe their own BS. Unfortunately for them, a LOT of American don't believe their BS...including Democrats and Independents.
3. As far as why Cheney is shooting her mouth off about Trump, it doesn't matter...except to the Trump hating media because it gives them something to spout of about that's anti-Trump...like that article. They are desperately trying to manipulate people with their propaganda.
4. The fact is, if Trump decides to run in 2024, he will be President again. If he doesn't decide to run, then whomever he endorses will be President.

Trump will win in 2024 like he won in 2020, right?


He's just hoping all that GOP gerrymandering and vote suppression works.
 

Mycroft

Genius is where you find it.
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 27, 2011
Messages
71,348
Reaction score
28,165
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Trump will win in 2024 like he won in 2020, right?
If the Trump haters don't break the law like they did in 2020 and if they get away with it like they did in 2020, then yes.
 

mrjurrs

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 22, 2019
Messages
10,189
Reaction score
3,908
Location
The Bay
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
I think he's fading already. His calling McConnell a "son of a bitch" was met with shrugs. He made himself a popular vessel of grievance, but all of his grievances now relate just to him and not much else. His complaining about a stolen election has grown tiresome. I don't think its there for him anymore.
The only issue I'd add in is that the R's he represents (a shrinking number) are all about grievance.
 

j brown's body

A hail fellow well met
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
15,890
Reaction score
8,571
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Communist
If the Trump haters don't break the law like they did in 2020 and if they get away with it like they did in 2020, then yes.

Could you vote for Cheney if she won the nomination?
 

Helix

Administrator
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
72,617
Reaction score
55,658
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
my concern is that the next person that the Republicans nominate will actually be intelligent enough to do more lasting damage. Punkinhead's ridiculously incompetent clown show mostly just let the rich raid the treasury and gave him a chance to undo Obama's legacy for a couple years. an intelligent Republican might be able to destroy our social safety nets while claiming to just be trying to make them better.
 

j brown's body

A hail fellow well met
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
15,890
Reaction score
8,571
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Communist
Hawley and Cruz are traitors and hopefully there aren't enough stupid people to support them. Haley didn't do herself any good with her "Trump is the devil" in February comments followed by her oozing gushiness this week about him. DeSantis is Trump lite. Rubio was my candidate in 2016 but he has disappointed me with his petty behavior.

I'd love to see Charlie Baker or Chris Sununu toss their names in. I'd vote for either one of them.

What about DeSantis?

I am predicting now that Trump won't run. I don't see him endorsing any one person outright. I see him dropping a few names and seeing how much they degrade themselves by ingratiating themselves to him, and then maybe picking the one most likely to win.

Seems like the primary will be a bloodbath.
 

phoenix2020

Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2020
Messages
2,326
Reaction score
1,812
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
What about DeSantis?

I am predicting now that Trump won't run. I don't see him endorsing any one person outright. I see him dropping a few names and seeing how much they degrade themselves by ingratiating themselves to him, and then maybe picking the one most likely to win.

Seems like the primary will be a bloodbath.

It will be a mess because if Trump doesn't run, he will do everything he can to make it about him. That likely means that he'll be coy about whether to run well into the primary just to generate attention. I also imagine he'll flip-flop a couple of times - again that will keep the field of sycophants on their toes and generate press. I can imagine him opting in, then opting out, then opting back in late in the process just to settle grievances and soothe his ego.

As for 2024, he'll still get the Mycroft-caliber votes of course but that is an increasingly diminishing group.
 

j brown's body

A hail fellow well met
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
15,890
Reaction score
8,571
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Communist
my concern is that the next person that the Republicans nominate will actually be intelligent enough to do more lasting damage. Punkinhead's ridiculously incompetent clown show mostly just let the rich raid the treasury and gave him a chance to undo Obama's legacy for a couple years. an intelligent Republican might be able to destroy our social safety nets while claiming to just be trying to make them better.

More intelligent and not so lazy.
 

SNOWFLAKE

Crazy Canuck
Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Messages
7,503
Reaction score
3,643
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
If the Trump haters don't break the law like they did in 2020 and if they get away with it like they did in 2020, then yes.
Trump lost!!! Time to accept that, and stop lamenting.
bf9b417a2f3db66781e23f7caa6a9a03888b82ce2496cf8e2ae1500a505e7b31.png
 

SNOWFLAKE

Crazy Canuck
Joined
Feb 23, 2019
Messages
7,503
Reaction score
3,643
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
my concern is that the next person that the Republicans nominate will actually be intelligent enough to do more lasting damage. Punkinhead's ridiculously incompetent clown show mostly just let the rich raid the treasury and gave him a chance to undo Obama's legacy for a couple years. an intelligent Republican might be able to destroy our social safety nets while claiming to just be trying to make them better.
That should be the fear, a smart Trump, but then again, even a smart Trump like figure will still only attract a constantly shrinking demographic.
 

Helix

Administrator
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
72,617
Reaction score
55,658
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
More intelligent and not so lazy.

imagine what an intelligent Tweety could have done with a Republican congress if he hadn't been so focused on direct revenge for every perceived slight. instead, he put on a circus.
 

Helix

Administrator
Moderator
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 1, 2011
Messages
72,617
Reaction score
55,658
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
That should be the fear, a smart Trump, but then again, even a smart Trump like figure will still only attract a constantly shrinking demographic.

they can delay the consequences of that reality by suppressing the vote and gerrymandering. HR1 is still sitting there, and the Democrats are, of course, focusing on other things.
 

phoenix2020

Supporting Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2020
Messages
2,326
Reaction score
1,812
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Centrist
Yeah, ironically what saved our Republic was the fact that Trump was a lazy, narcissistic idiot. Defeating Democracy takes a lot of planning and work and, well, we know Donald Trump isn't the sort to sweat the details. He can't even get the easy stuff right (sharing a NOAA hurricane forecast? explaining his 2021-24 agenda on Fox? a wedding toast?) so it's no surprise his insurrection was about as successful as Trump University.
 

Yakshi

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 16, 2019
Messages
6,301
Reaction score
3,748
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
Sometimes I wonder how many forumers here--and on other political forums like this one--are banned on Twitter for violating their terms of service by posting some of the transparent falsehoods they repeat here as if they've got a specialized form of Tourette's.

Then I figure, None, because their tweets would go unnoticed.
 
Last edited:

tres borrachos

HoHoHo
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 20, 2012
Messages
79,697
Reaction score
54,925
Location
New England
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
What about DeSantis?

I am predicting now that Trump won't run. I don't see him endorsing any one person outright. I see him dropping a few names and seeing how much they degrade themselves by ingratiating themselves to him, and then maybe picking the one most likely to win.

Seems like the primary will be a bloodbath.

DeSantis? Like I said, he's Trump lite. A better looking and less grotesque version of Trump. No, I would not vote for him.

Yes, I suspect we will have to witness Ted "Insult my wife again Mr. President and I'll lick your other testicle" Cruz get on his knees for Trump's endorsement.
 
Top Bottom