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What it would take for me to believe in a god [W:73:222]

Re: What it would take for me to believe in a god

blarg said:
i still have to disagree with you about maters of love and justice but i shout try to be nicer about it glad you had a good time till the next time then
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Which proves we can disagree with one another without resorting to insults and mocking...that's a good thing...I look forward to the next time...:)
 
Re: What it would take for me to believe in a god

Elvira said:
Human beings are the only ones God created with the prospect of living forever...of being able to think and make decisions for ourselves, to be able to express love for our Creator and to look to Him for guidance...so no...animals are created with instincts, not free will...
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Human beings die. They don't live forever. History has a lot of evidence of that. There is no evidence to the contrary.
 
Re: What it would take for me to believe in a god

Elvira said:
Human beings are the only ones God created with the prospect of living forever...of being able to think and make decisions for ourselves, to be able to express love for our Creator and to look to Him for guidance...so no...animals are created with instincts, not free will...
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Animals make choices.
 
Re: What it would take for me to believe in a god

I'd like to start this litany by explaining that I do hold very strong beliefs in...what we term..God. However, to distinguish my beliefs from the classical, I prefer to name this entity 'GAWD'. And I know in my heart that this entity doesn't mind that a bit.

There is a story about a guy named Abraham, who climbed a large hill in the Middle East, and spoke with Gawd. The offshoot of this tragic event has been, what I call, 'The Dirty Three'. Christianity, Judaism and Islam. Between these 3 'religions', they have hacked and slashed at the human race relentlessly for thousands of years. So my question to the followers of this...thing Abraham and others claimed to have conversed with, is simple and 'assumes this thing actually exists...which I don't believe but anyway...

Knowing the bloody history of this Gawd and it's teaching/direction, and assuming there is an opposite entity called the Devil or Satan, who do you all really think Abraham and the others were really conversing with up on that hill?
 
Re: What it would take for me to believe in a god

Buzz62 said:
I'd like to start this litany by explaining that I do hold very strong beliefs in...what we term..God. However, to distinguish my beliefs from the classical, I prefer to name this entity 'GAWD'. And I know in my heart that this entity doesn't mind that a bit.

There is a story about a guy named Abraham, who climbed a large hill in the Middle East, and spoke with Gawd. The offshoot of this tragic event has been, what I call, 'The Dirty Three'. Christianity, Judaism and Islam. Between these 3 'religions', they have hacked and slashed at the human race relentlessly for thousands of years. So my question to the followers of this...thing Abraham and others claimed to have conversed with, is simple and 'assumes this thing actually exists...which I don't believe but anyway...

Knowing the bloody history of this Gawd and it's teaching/direction, and assuming there is an opposite entity called the Devil or Satan, who do you all really think Abraham and the others were really conversing with up on that hill?
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Abraham spoke with Jehovah...I have no idea who the others spoke with...nor do I care to know...
 
Re: What it would take for me to believe in a god

Elvira said:
Abraham spoke with Jehovah...I have no idea who the others spoke with...nor do I care to know...
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Huh? You don't care to know? You hold deep beliefs in the Gawd of Abraham, yet don't care if this Gawd had anything to do with the other 2 religions?
I'm gonna assume you're Christian, but correct me if I'm wrong. Either way it doesn't matter. You would throw your soul to an entity, without knowing this entity?
You invite blind acquiescence? WHY??? HOW???
 
Re: What it would take for me to believe in a god

Buzz62 said:
Huh? You don't care to know? You hold deep beliefs in the Gawd of Abraham, yet don't care if this Gawd had anything to do with the other 2 religions?
I'm gonna assume you're Christian, but correct me if I'm wrong. Either way it doesn't matter. You would throw your soul to an entity, without knowing this entity?
You invite blind acquiescence? WHY??? HOW???
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His name is Jehovah...the Bible tells me everything I need to know about the only one true God...my soul is not some thing I own...I am a living soul and when I die, I will be a dead soul...not complicated at all...
 
Re: What it would take for me to believe in a god

Elvira said:
Yeah, some wanna get hit over the head by God or get a good swift kick in the rear to believe...that day's a comin'...
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I know, right? Have you started praying 5 times a day and had a chance to visit Mecca yet? Better get moving! Time is short! Here are some other quick tips:

judge.jpg
 
Re: What it would take for me to believe in a god

Elvira said:
His name is Jehovah...the Bible tells me everything I need to know about the only one true God...my soul is not some thing I own...I am a living soul and when I die, I will be a dead soul...not complicated at all...
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OK Jehovah.
Evidently a 'guy', who came to, or appeared to, another 'guy' named Abraham, and who dictated to this Abraham, his...ideas on how we could be his...friends?
You don't own your own soul? You don't own your sense of self?
A dead soul??? Don't you mean a soul outside its physical embodiment?
 
Re: What it would take for me to believe in a god

Buzz62 said:
OK Jehovah.
Evidently a 'guy', who came to, or appeared to, another 'guy' named Abraham, and who dictated to this Abraham, his...ideas on how we could be his...friends?
You don't own your own soul? You don't own your sense of self?
A dead soul??? Don't you mean a soul outside its physical embodiment?
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You might wanna do some research on that soul of yours...go back to the original rendering of the word and start from there...in Hebrew, nephesh and the Greek, psykhe...

As to being Jehovah's friend, that is exactly what Abraham was called...he was so attuned to God’s feelings and displayed such strong faith and obedience that “he came to be called ‘Jehovah’s friend”...James 2:23

Abraham's intimate knowledge of God’s thinking was clearly evident when Jehovah informed him that Sodom and Gomorrah would be destroyed because of their depravity...he knew Jehovah well enough to conclude that it was unthinkable that God would put to death the righteous man with the wicked...Genesis 18:17-33

Even years later, in obedience to God’s direction, Abraham “as good as offered up Isaac,” for “he reckoned that God was able to raise him up even from the dead.”...Hebrews 11:17-19; Genesis 22:1-18

So the key to being God's friend is...get to know Jehovah through His Written Word, the Bible...
 
Re: What it would take for me to believe in a god

Elvira said:
You might wanna do some research on that soul of yours...go back to the original rendering of the word and start from there...in Hebrew, nephesh and the Greek, psykhe...

As to being Jehovah's friend, that is exactly what Abraham was called...he was so attuned to God’s feelings and displayed such strong faith and obedience that “he came to be called ‘Jehovah’s friend”...James 2:23

Abraham's intimate knowledge of God’s thinking was clearly evident when Jehovah informed him that Sodom and Gomorrah would be destroyed because of their depravity...he knew Jehovah well enough to conclude that it was unthinkable that God would put to death the righteous man with the wicked...Genesis 18:17-33

Even years later, in obedience to God’s direction, Abraham “as good as offered up Isaac,” for “he reckoned that God was able to raise him up even from the dead.”...Hebrews 11:17-19; Genesis 22:1-18

So the key to being God's friend is...get to know Jehovah through His Written Word, the Bible...
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Wow. OK first of all, I know my soul and what it is. I don't need a book for that one.
But here's the problem I have.

This 'Jehovah' guy, started a chain of events that lead to some of the most wicked acts in human history.
This Bible of the Christians', both of 'em, are full of edicts to maim, kill etc...other people...in his name.

1 Samuel 15:3 Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

NUMBERS 21:3 The Lord gave the Canaanites over to Israel, who "completely destroyed them and their towns."

NUMBERS 31:17-18 God commanded Moses to kill all of the male Midianite children and "kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man." The virgins were presumably raped. (NOTE: How could the soldiers know which women were virgins?)
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https://christianity.stackexchange....he-old-testament-does-he-still-command-people

This guy should be blindly followed?
Look, 1 of 2 things has to be true here.
1. Abraham, Moses and Mohamed never really 'spoke' with anyone except themselves, and this is all just the rules of the power-hungry.
2. 'Jehovah' or something portraying himself as 'Jehovah', spoke with these 3 gents, and convinced them to serve death, in his name.

This 'reckoning' you've eluded to...I think it's soon coming too.
And I think the followers of this...thing...are in for a nasty surprise.
And I feel sorry for them.
 
Re: What it would take for me to believe in a god

Buzz62 said:
Wow. OK first of all, I know my soul and what it is. I don't need a book for that one.
But here's the problem I have.

This 'Jehovah' guy, started a chain of events that lead to some of the most wicked acts in human history.
This Bible of the Christians', both of 'em, are full of edicts to maim, kill etc...other people...in his name.



https://christianity.stackexchange....he-old-testament-does-he-still-command-people

This guy should be blindly followed?
Look, 1 of 2 things has to be true here.
1. Abraham, Moses and Mohamed never really 'spoke' with anyone except themselves, and this is all just the rules of the power-hungry.
2. 'Jehovah' or something portraying himself as 'Jehovah', spoke with these 3 gents, and convinced them to serve death, in his name.

This 'reckoning' you've eluded to...I think it's soon coming too.
And I think the followers of this...thing...are in for a nasty surprise.
And I feel sorry for them.
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OK, that's your choice, if you think you already know...

You are blaming God for what Satan and the first human pair did...they and they alone are responsible for their own actions...and the rest is history...many things have been done in God's name that He does not approve of...

NO man should be followed...EVER...a Christian's leader is and should be Jesus Christ...no other...principles for Christians to live by are all laid out in the Bible...nowhere else...by nobody else...

As to your last part...I agree...many will be surprised...and not in a good way...it will be just as Jesus said in Luke 13:23-27...
 
Re: What it would take for me to believe in a god

Elvira said:
OK, that's your choice, if you think you already know...
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Trust me...I do.

Elvira said:
You are blaming God for what Satan and the first human pair did...they and they alone are responsible for their own actions...and the rest is history...many things have been done in God's name that He does not approve of...
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OK what do Adam, Eve, Satan and his apple, have to do with a Gawd's commands to kill? Do you think these commands are a direct result of that event? That somehow all humanity is guilty and therefore murder is justifiable? Please don't tell me that's the case?
As for what man does, we're talking about his apparent direct words and commandments.

Elvira said:
NO man should be followed...EVER...a Christian's leader is and should be Jesus Christ...no other...principles for Christians to live by are all laid out in the Bible...nowhere else...by nobody else...
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Wasn't Jesus a man?

Elvira said:
As to your last part...I agree...many will be surprised...and not in a good way...it will be just as Jesus said in Luke 13:23-27...
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Fine I'm actually OK with that. Dealers in iniquity aren't allowed.
But that's not the issue...is it.
No, the issue here is the edicts from the very beginning. I cannot nor will I try to justify either the cold-bloodedness of the commands, nor the acts of mass murder as a result of these commands. The force I believe in would not nor could not make such commands, mostly because they are nonsense and make no difference to it. The outcome is not altered. You cannot avoid the inevitable, unless you really want to.

But your argument does not satisfy the 2 possibilities. Man's greed, or Satan's commands.
 
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Re: What it would take for me to believe in a god

Buzz62 said:
Trust me...I do.


OK what do Adam, Eve, Satan and his apple, have to do with a Gawd's commands to kill? Do you think these commands are a direct result of that event? That somehow all humanity is guilty and therefore murder is justifiable? Please don't tell me that's the case?
As for what man does, we're talking about his apparent direct words and commandments.


Wasn't Jesus a man?

As to your last part...I agree...many will be surprised...and not in a good way...it will be just as Jesus said in Luke 13:23-27...
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[/QUOTE]


When was the last time God gave a direct order to kill anyone through his Written Word?

Yes, Jesus was a man when he came to earth...he also had a pre-human existence in the heavens as an angel...can any other human make that claim?
 
Re: What it would take for me to believe in a god

Elvira said:
When was the last time God gave a direct order to kill anyone through his Written Word?

Yes, Jesus was a man when he came to earth...he also had a pre-human existence in the heavens as an angel...can any other human make that claim?
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Many have made that claim...
None were proven to be true.
Neither was his divinity.

Here's the biggest problem...You, me, and every soul in existence...are all Gawds.
We each carry our own individual force or energy that is a part of the whole...Gawd.

Was Jesus the son of Gawd? Yes.
Just as you are the daughter of the same Gawd...or spring of life...or whatever you wish to call it.
CREATION.

And I thought your Bible was the written word of this Gawd Jehovah?
It is a pretty bloody book ya know...
 
Re: What it would take for me to believe in a god

Buzz62 said:
Many have made that claim...
None were proven to be true.
Neither was his divinity.

Here's the biggest problem...You, me, and every soul in existence...are all Gawds.
We each carry our own individual force or energy that is a part of the whole...Gawd.

Was Jesus the son of Gawd? Yes.
Just as you are the daughter of the same Gawd...or spring of life...or whatever you wish to call it.
CREATION.
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Well, I could claim to be the Queen of Sheba...would that make it true? lol...

Don't hold God responsible for what deceitful, stupid men do in His name...
 
Re: What it would take for me to believe in a god

Elvira said:
Well, I could claim to be the Queen of Sheba...would that make it true? lol...

Don't hold God responsible for what deceitful, stupid men do in His name...
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That's not an explanation. It's a cop-out. It's blind acquiescence to ideas and edicts that are immoral as hell.
I'm sorry if that's insulting or hurtful, but it is, unfortunately true.
This Jehovah either told man to commit murder, or he didn't. If he didn't, then how is it the written word of your Gawd says to commit murder?
Or has man 'perverted' these words?
 
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