• We will be taking the server down at approximately 3:30 AM ET on Wednesday, 10/8/25. We have a hard drive that is in the early stages of failure and this is necessary to prevent data loss. We hope to be back up and running quickly, however this process could take some time.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

What is your opinion on Redistribution of Wealth?

Life is about working hard and earning your way in this world. I'm not for it.
 
Folks who make more in income, can afford to pay a higher percentage in income tax. Its very simple.

The graduated income tax is fair, just, and right.

Just because they can afford to is not a reason why they should. What an utter non-sequitur.
 
Last edited:

I am not plucking the golden goose.... Just saying if it sucks so bad to live here, then MOVE
 
I am not plucking the golden goose.... Just saying if it sucks so bad to live here, then MOVE

I own the land and property here that I live on, so why should I leave?
 
Folks who make more in income, can afford to pay a higher percentage in income tax. Its very simple.

The graduated income tax is fair, just, and right.

:shrug: currently the middle class and the poor could afford to pay a higher percentage in income tax. Certainly I could - every month I have money left over that I label "savings". that you can afford to have more taken from you does not morally justify those who do the taking.
 
I am not plucking the golden goose.... Just saying if it sucks so bad to live here, then MOVE

SheWolf, what is your opinion of off-shoring?
 

depends of the effect of taking that money. If it would somehow create a better life for all, then yes, it would be very moral to take that money. I'd find it much more moral to "steal" your savings and to keep our gov from collapsing, then to allow our gov to collapse bringing your savings down with it.

But taxation is not a matter of morality, it's a matter of practicality. Some people on this forum claim that any taxation whatsoever, no matter how small or how neccessary is illmoral. Others on this forum think that having to pay the doc for healthcare serves is illmoral. Some think that it is illmoral to drive a car.
 
depends of the effect of taking that money. If it would somehow create a better life for all, then yes, it would be very moral to take that money.

Only to a utilitarian. Let's not act as if utilitarianism is the only ethical code that exists.

I'd find it much more moral to "steal" your savings and to keep our gov from collapsing, then to allow our gov to collapse bringing your savings down with it.

Though the government has destroyed more savings than such a collapse would? Do you know what the price of gold was when the Fed was first created? See what it is now? If that's not destruction of savings I don't know what is. I see the better option as actually allowing the government to collapse if that is the path that it is going to take.


It's not practicality. All of the things that the government could provides could instead be operated by private companies.
 

I agree. Avoiding the collapse of the state is a superior goal. But keeping the state from collapsing is also superior to maintaining entitlement spending - and unfortunately, what is collapsing our government is not revenue, it is spending. Our government's income has continued to grow geometrically while her spending has exploded and is currently set to continue to grow exponentially.

But taxation is not a matter of morality, it's a matter of practicality.

it is a matter of both - our current tax code is a moral one - it makes cheats and liars of huge swaths of Americans. It encourages us to live off of others, to take their wealth from them for our own use. It encourages us to become bullies, utilizing the demographic superiority of some to take from minority groups.

however, as a practical matter (and it is one of those as well), the problem becomes one of potential - you simply aren't going to be able to raise tax rates and get enough money to pay for a federal government that consumes 24% of GDP. Hiking tax rates isn't even likely to get your revenue to bump up as a % of GDP.
 
Last edited:

No sympathies for dissolution? I see it as the only way to get real reform.
 


Where did I suggest I think it's wrong to pay the owner to use their property?

My objection is to the abridgement of one owner's property rights by other property owners who lobby for restrictions on what the first property owner can do with their property, and to government actions which abridge those property rights.

As an involuntary renter, I literally need the greatest supply of rental housing that the private sector is willing, able, and allowed to provide. When one property owner enjoys more zoning clout in six months of residency than 30-year residents who rent, I have a problem with that, because government then is engaging in social engineering and class warfare, and picking winners (omeowners) and losers (renters).

I'm perfectly happy to pay market rents in a free market. But crippling the property rights of developers who seek to provide rental housing makes the market unfree and artificially drives up those rents. Even a conservative like Sowell was able to recognize that.
 
In my opinion it is not ok to take money from somebody who has earned to and give it to somebody who has not. We have equal opportunity in this country so the choice of one person should not result in "stealing" from another.

Does that mean you are aginst ALL subsidies or just those that benefit the poor?
 


Actually in this case voting has a lot to do with it. The case I describe entails one group of property owners using government to prohibit another property owner from developing is property in a way the group didn't like - with the local renter majority being completely irrelevant to the issue. The homeowners had the votes and the developer didn't. The renter should be under the control of the landlord, but the landlord should not be under the control of other property owners - THAT is the issue.

Government effectively imposes financial requirements on ownership (or at least purchase); you are effectively saying that renters cannot be responsible until they (have enough money to) buy a home. I think ownership should be up to a willing seller and a willing buyer - not to government.

Of course a property owner should be able to tell whose using his property what to do, again the issue is whether other property owners have the right to tell that man what he can and cannot do with his property.
 
Try to make an argument that property owners shouldn't be in control of their property. Can you manage? Don't worry, I won't be waiting around for something that will never happen.



Of course, property owners should be in control of THEIR property. They should not be in control of other people's property, which is my complaint.
 
In my opinion it is not ok to take money from somebody who has earned to and give it to somebody who has not. We have equal opportunity in this country so the choice of one person should not result in "stealing" from another.

I consider it a moral obligation and necessity, as long as it is moderate and does not hamper economic development too much.
 


Government effectively creates and maintains an ample pool of involuntary renters who by definition must pay landlords or become homeless. If it were up to me, I would pitch a tent and a shed in a friend's back yard, but the tent is unlawful.

Yes there's the rub the renter has more need than the owner, and government further deprives the renter from exercising certain options he would naturally enjoy (like pitching a tent in a friend's back yard).

Government makes it much more expensive for a frugal renter to live than he would choose to pay if government didn't get in his way.
 
If he wishes to have lower rent he needs to move to a different area that has lower demand. San Diego I would imagine is a very bad place to rent or own if you want low prices.


Developers and landlords should be free to enter the market and offer cheaper housing, of lower quality if that's what it takes. Why do you want to curtail property rights?
 


Actually, the Obamacare tax/penalty for not having the right insurance has a logical extension:

A tax/penalty for not owning a home. I believe eventually we will phase out the mortgage interest deduction and create a tax/penalty for not owning a home.
 



It's worse that you think. Half of all low-income renters (low income includes some people who are not poor) pay at least half their income for shelter, according to Mortgage News Daily.
 
Have you ever seen a poor person win the lottery? What happens?

They spend it all and are poor again.

What would be the point?


A lot of poor people would actually sock the money away - I know I would, because earning any significant amount of money is difficult for me. But poor people who would sock away the money are precisely the people who don't buy lottery tickets. So poor people who buy lottery tickets are precisely the ones most likely to blow the money the fastest.
 


Down at the mill
they got a new machine
the foreman says
it cuts manpower
'bout fifteen

- Elton John
 



My scholarship was merit-based, but they said I didn't have need and therefore was limited to $100.
 
actually I have met lots of trust fund idiots who are howling libs because they feel guilty while I rarely have met hard workers who are whiners



The ones who aren't whiners have either had teir ship come in, or are still naively expecting their sip to one day come in.

It's when they ultimately realize their ship is never going to come in that they start whining.
 


This works only for women.
 
giving money to the rich? do you labor under the delusion that a tax cut is giving someone money?


A tax cut, if not across-the-board, merely redistributes income from one set of taxpayers to a different set of taxpayers.
 
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…