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What is the Role of the US Military in Today's world?

blackjack50

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As the title says: what do you think?

I personally feel that we have become a little too concerned with global police action, and we aren't playing games that benefit our national security enough. What do you say?
 

blackjack50

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Colonialism.

So you believe we should be colonial? I'm assuming you are trying to state that we are being colonial, which isn't the case either. But ya know...I figured I'd get at least one like that.
 

Winchester

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So you believe we should be colonial? I'm assuming you are trying to state that we are being colonial, which isn't the case either. But ya know...I figured I'd get at least one like that.

Okay, modern day colonialism. :2razz: But seriously we use our military to influence world politics and to open the way to exploit other countries economically. Our military has a big footprint around the world.
 

blackjack50

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Okay, modern day colonialism. :2razz: But seriously we use our military to influence world politics and to open the way to exploit other countries economically. Our military has a big footprint around the world.

Nothing we do truly falls under colonialism. We don't control or take care of the maintenance of the nations. What "we" exploit is done by corporations and private business. And our military has a big footprint as a result of the Cold War. Do you think we should have let communism take hold and "colonize" instead?
 

RJApple

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I don't think we should act as the world's police force, however, I am not opposed to a more imperialistic use of our military might. Further, opposing things such as Islam and communism might also legitimately require military force. Just to spare the impending attack of Islamic apologists, I mean radical Islam, not your Muslim neighbor.
 
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cpwill

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Okay, modern day colonialism. :2razz: But seriously we use our military to influence world politics and to open the way to exploit other countries economically. Our military has a big footprint around the world.

=/= Colonialism. At most you could say that we exercise Soft Imperialism through influence rather than coercion.
 

blackjack50

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I don't think we should act as the world's police force, however, I am not opposed to a more imperialistic use of our military might. Further, opposing things such as Islam and communism might also legitimately require military force. Just to spare the impending attack of Islamic apologists, I mean radical Islam, not your Muslim neighbor.

I think it is completely unrealistic to think that you can combat radical Islam with military might. Ask the Romans how well that worked against Christianity. Oh wait you can't.
 

RetiredUSN

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Our politicians recruit young sailors/soldiers/airmen/Marines to be used at their will while they slink around in the corridors of congress and the senate making bad back room deals with other world leaders.

They lie to them.

Handcuff them in battle.

After they are disabled, they are passed over to a corrupt VA administration filled with people who receive bonuses while simultaneously being investigated for incompetence.

I wouldn't serve in the military knowing what I know now.

ots1882E__12473.1410905082.220.290.jpg
 

RJApple

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I think it is completely unrealistic to think that you can combat radical Islam with military might. Ask the Romans how well that worked against Christianity. Oh wait you can't.

The difference there is that one group is actively seeking to kill people, and the other was a peaceful movement at the time. Obviously, one cannot effectively fight ideas, something immaterial, with the military, something material. To clarify, what I was getting at was using military force against groups such as ISIS, Hamas, etc.
 

Oozlefinch

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Okay, modern day colonialism. :2razz: But seriously we use our military to influence world politics and to open the way to exploit other countries economically.

Oh yes, we have made so much money from our actions overseas in the last 70 years.

*yawn*

I don't think we should act as the world's police force

Think of it this way.

Would you rather fight them overseas, or in our own country?

In the 1980's, we did a lot to fight the "budding jihadist movement" overseas, and had very few attacks in the US. Striking nations that supported them and training camps.

We stopped doing that around 20 years ago, and since then we have had problems with them in our own country.

Not equating one with the other, or saying that was right or wrong. But I would rather strike a camp in Yemen that was training people, then have them trained unmolested and coming to our country to carry on their jihad.

=/= Colonialism. At most you could say that we exercise Soft Imperialism through influence rather than coercion.

Actually, it is so simple that most just do not get it.

We have always been a mercantile nation. And primarily all our nation has wanted is open trade. Trade and deal fairly with us, we have no problem. In fact, colonialism is against such a concept, since it reduces the number of trading partners available to us (and increases administration). If anybody actually notices, we have tried to divest of ourselves with "colonies" as quickly as we could.

We have traded with pretty much everybody, even nations who were technically "enemies", like the UK after the revolution and even the USSR and Warsaw Pact during the Cold War. If we wanted to we could have hurt the USSR badly by withholding things like grain during their times of short harvests, but we did not. Why? Because it made sense in so many ways to keep them friendly. plus they also bought from us, which makes the money go round.

The difference there is that one group is actively seeking to kill people, and the other was a peaceful movement at the time. Obviously, one cannot effectively fight ideas, something immaterial, with the military, something material. To clarify, what I was getting at was using military force against groups such as ISIS, Hamas, etc.

Actually, you can. It all depends upon the amount of effort you are willing to put into it.

Think of this. half a century ago, Fascism and Genocide were "ideals", and "immaterial". Does anybody think that the Imperial Aid Society and NAZI Party still exist?

And yes, the Ba'ath Party was a National Socialist movement, does anybody dispute that they are dead and gone? That that idea has been crushed and destroyed?

Groups like ISIS and HAMAS and others can indeed be destroyed. And with proper follow-up they can be prevented from rising again. All that is needed is the will to do it right.

And in the current age, we tend to lack that will. So it is will much more than power that prevents this from happening.
 

cpwill

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Oozlefinch said:
Actually, it is so simple that most just do not get it.

We have always been a mercantile nation. And primarily all our nation has wanted is open trade. Trade and deal fairly with us, we have no problem. In fact, colonialism is against such a concept, since it reduces the number of trading partners available to us (and increases administration). If anybody actually notices, we have tried to divest of ourselves with "colonies" as quickly as we could.

We have traded with pretty much everybody, even nations who were technically "enemies", like the UK after the revolution and even the USSR and Warsaw Pact during the Cold War. If we wanted to we could have hurt the USSR badly by withholding things like grain during their times of short harvests, but we did not. Why? Because it made sense in so many ways to keep them friendly. plus they also bought from us, which makes the money go round.

Pretty much. Trying to rule other peoples is expensive, messy, and often violates our core principles. We really just want to make a buck selling them an iPhone.

Actually, you can. It all depends upon the amount of effort you are willing to put into it.

Think of this. half a century ago, Fascism and Genocide were "ideals", and "immaterial". Does anybody think that the Imperial Aid Society and NAZI Party still exist?

And yes, the Ba'ath Party was a National Socialist movement, does anybody dispute that they are dead and gone? That that idea has been crushed and destroyed?

Groups like ISIS and HAMAS and others can indeed be destroyed. And with proper follow-up they can be prevented from rising again. All that is needed is the will to do it right.

And in the current age, we tend to lack that will. So it is will much more than power that prevents this from happening.

Precisely. The way that you destroy an ideal is to destroy it's practitioners, examples, and proselytizers. Want Islamist Fundamentalism to lose it's appeal? Embarrass it by absolutely wrecking it.
 

Ntharotep

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You guys are overcomplicating things.
We all know that the primary purpose of the military is to defend and build Walmarts.
 

Oozlefinch

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Pretty much. Trying to rule other peoples is expensive, messy, and often violates our core principles. We really just want to make a buck selling them an iPhone.

The US has really only had 2 "colonies", the Philippines and Cuba. It created neither of those, and as quickly as it reasonably could it let them go.

And gained 2 new nations to trade with. And with the Philippines it is interesting. Originally we bought raw materials from them and sold finished products. Now with the cost of labor, we sell them raw materials and buy finished products.

I realized long ago that those who talk about "American Colonialism" really have their head up their bottoms. Hell, after WWII the "Big 3" car companies were even offered VW by the German Government as a way to resolve debt, and all 3 turned them down. Now what kind of colonialism is it where the US companies stay out and promote growth of the "Colonial" corporations? We do not have Atari and Universal buying out Japanese film companies. But we sure as hell have Sony buying out Columbia and RCA.

Just shows how bass-ackwards those who say such things are from reality.

You guys are overcomplicating things.
We all know that the primary purpose of the military is to defend and build Walmarts.

And how many "Walmarts? are there in Iraq? Or Kuwait? Or Afghanistan? How about Germany or Japan?

And how about this little bit of information. I am currently working for WM. While people all over are screaming in California for a "Minimum wage" of $15, I started out at $16 an hour there. With a quarterly bonus, shift bonus, and other performance bonus.

Funny how so many love to throw around WM as some kind of evil company, when in my experience it is actually one of the better ones around. How many hire zero skilled workers at $10+ an hour with benefits? Then I see people make statements like the above, and know they have HUA syndrome.
 

Ntharotep

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The US has really only had 2 "colonies", the Philippines and Cuba. It created neither of those, and as quickly as it reasonably could it let them go.

And gained 2 new nations to trade with. And with the Philippines it is interesting. Originally we bought raw materials from them and sold finished products. Now with the cost of labor, we sell them raw materials and buy finished products.

I realized long ago that those who talk about "American Colonialism" really have their head up their bottoms. Hell, after WWII the "Big 3" car companies were even offered VW by the German Government as a way to resolve debt, and all 3 turned them down. Now what kind of colonialism is it where the US companies stay out and promote growth of the "Colonial" corporations? We do not have Atari and Universal buying out Japanese film companies. But we sure as hell have Sony buying out Columbia and RCA.

Just shows how bass-ackwards those who say such things are from reality.



And how many "Walmarts? are there in Iraq? Or Kuwait? Or Afghanistan? How about Germany or Japan?

And how about this little bit of information. I am currently working for WM. While people all over are screaming in California for a "Minimum wage" of $15, I started out at $16 an hour there. With a quarterly bonus, shift bonus, and other performance bonus.

Funny how so many love to throw around WM as some kind of evil company, when in my experience it is actually one of the better ones around. How many hire zero skilled workers at $10+ an hour with benefits? Then I see people make statements like the above, and know they have HUA syndrome.

Actually. There's a **** ton of Walmarts in Germany and many in Japan.
In Germany, you used to have cobblestone streets with architecture that spoke of ages and ages. In many areas, this has been replaced with Walmarts, McDonalds and other conglomerates that have puked themselves all over that particular country.
In the Saudi lands here's a nice Walmart story for you:
Israeli National News: Saudis Demand a Wall to Divide Sexes in Walmart

If you didn't know that Walmart exists in other countries then you might not throw around comments about reality so haphazardly...
 

Oozlefinch

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Actually. There's a **** ton of Walmarts in Germany and many in Japan.

Research, ever heard of it?

Here, let me give you a little clue, ok?

Let me google that for you

There, is that so very freaking hard?

Here, let me give a link to those that do not want to bother. This is the first result. From no less than the "Huffington Post", obviously a well known Right-Wing shill site, pushing the ideals of Republicans and Capitolists:

Walmart can boast that it has more than 8,500 stores in 15 countries, under 55 different names, that it’s the largest private employer in the United States, the largest in Mexico (as Walmex), and the third largest in Canada. In fact, it’s the biggest private employer in the whole world. It has 108 stores in China alone, and operates another 100 Chinese outlets under the name of Trust-Mart.

Still, for all of Walmart’s conspicuous success, the retailing giant, after having set up shop in Germany in 1997, was forced to withdraw from the country in 2006, abandoning Germany’s lucrative $370 billion retail market.
Why Did Walmart Leave Germany?

OK, so please, give us a list of the locations of the "*** ton" of Walmarts in Germany.

Oh, and no, there is not a single Walmart in Japan. Never has been. Now to be technical, in 2006 Walmart did buy the chain known as Seiyu when it was literally on the verge of bankruptcy. It was a chain that had been in financial trouble for over a decade, and would have failed otherwise. And it still operates as Seiyu, with little input from the "Home Office" other then management training.

But please, tell us all about those "*** ton" of Walmarts in Germany and Japan.

*sits back and waits, laughing*
 

braindrain

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Research, ever heard of it?

Here, let me give you a little clue, ok?

Let me google that for you

There, is that so very freaking hard?

Here, let me give a link to those that do not want to bother. This is the first result. From no less than the "Huffington Post", obviously a well known Right-Wing shill site, pushing the ideals of Republicans and Capitolists:


Why Did Walmart Leave Germany?

OK, so please, give us a list of the locations of the "*** ton" of Walmarts in Germany.

Oh, and no, there is not a single Walmart in Japan. Never has been. Now to be technical, in 2006 Walmart did buy the chain known as Seiyu when it was literally on the verge of bankruptcy. It was a chain that had been in financial trouble for over a decade, and would have failed otherwise. And it still operates as Seiyu, with little input from the "Home Office" other then management training.

But please, tell us all about those "*** ton" of Walmarts in Germany and Japan.

*sits back and waits, laughing*
Ouch. That has to hurt. I was going to comment on his claim about walmarts in Japan as that is where I currently am stationed but I think after your post there is no longer the need.
 

QuadpolarNutjob

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none, call it home, and the next time you have an earthquake don't whine when we don't help. let the 'BRICS' take up the slack. :lamo

$300,000,000,000/year, that's not our military budget, that's what we spend base-line operating it outside of America. what could we build with that? well, 10,000,000 home solar power systems, per year. that means if we tell the rest of you to BUGGER OFF for a decade, we have a 100% renewable de-centralized energy system.

sorry, energy independence means more to me than your ungrateful foreign selves, why the hell is this even a discussion? CALL THE BOYS HOME!
 
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Thoreau72

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Nothing we do truly falls under colonialism. We don't control or take care of the maintenance of the nations. What "we" exploit is done by corporations and private business. And our military has a big footprint as a result of the Cold War. Do you think we should have let communism take hold and "colonize" instead?

I think you're being naïve.

We have a long history of changing governments that are not favorable to our interests, and our military and CIA work together to achieve that.

Without such involvement, for example, United Fruit Company would never have had the success in various central American countries. We took real estate from Colombia to create the country Panama.

The list is long. The governments of Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam and many others are just puppet governments installed by our Boots On The Ground. Think "Green zone".
 

Oozlefinch

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Ouch. That has to hurt. I was going to comment on his claim about walmarts in Japan as that is where I currently am stationed but I think after your post there is no longer the need.

Sorry, but it simply pisses me off when people can not even bother to do a few minutes of really simple research, and then make things up trying to show that they are "right".

And yes, I already knew the answer to Walmarts in Japan and Germany because I did a few minutes to look into it before I had made the first post. Unlike some, I do not have almost insane hatred to companies, and lash out in a kneejerk response whenever they are mentioned. And what does he use as his proof that Walmart is in Germany?

A post about Walmart in Saudi Arabia. Yea, because everybody knows that Germany and Saudi Arabia are the same thing.

And yea, like you I have also been all over the world. Japan for over a year, the Middle East (not SA) where I have seen "American Fast Food" spread around. But guess what? Fast food is almost universally a franchise operation. Want to set up a McDonalds at the South Pole? Go ahead, pay the franchising fee and transportation for the products and you can pretty much set one up wherever you want. The company largely does not give a damn. And American companies have been successful in this for over half a century simply because they francise things. The McDonalds in Germany are not owned by McDonalds, they are owned by Germans.

I remember seeing the giant A&W in Okinawa City, but can honestly not think of a single American retiail store during my entire time there. Once again short of a few small franchise ones like 7-11. But those with political axes to grind do not give a damn about the reality and facts, they want to throw their biased crap around and simply hope that they can stir up hatred to get a mob mentality to back their insane beliefs.

And I for one was saddened when I heard that the McDonalds at Camp Ali Al Salem closed a couple of years ago. It was a real landmark of the base, and beloved to all that came through on their way to other postings. For many it was the last bit of home they got to see, and the first one they saw on their way home after a long deployment.

009.JPG


Probably the most photographed McDonald's in the world during the last 15 years.
 

Grand Mal

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=/= Colonialism. At most you could say that we exercise Soft Imperialism through influence rather than coercion.

Yikes.
Saddam Hussein looks like the good old days in the Middle East thanks to influence rather than coercion.
Or is that all soo last year?
 

DA60

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Butt the 'f' out of everyone elses's business unless a declared state of war exists or major genocide is going on.

Anyone (read neocons) who thinks America running all over the world trying to police everything is actually helping either America or the world is staggeringly ignorant on this subject, IMO.
 
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