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What is the Relationship Between Faith and Evidence?

Elvira said:
Sorry, your philosophical mumbo jumbo won't work on me...
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That's good because I didn't use any.

I already know the truth...John 17:17...
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Well God says you're wrong....read "I saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus"...



See what I mean? Can you explain why the statements made in the bible are more accurate than statements made in Christmas songs?
 
JustHanging said:
That's good because I didn't use any.



Well God says you're wrong....read "I saw Mommy Kissing Santa Claus"...



See what I mean? Can you explain why the statements made in the bible are more accurate than statements made in Christmas songs?
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I don't believe in Santa Clause nor do I celebrate Christmas so your argument is moot...
 
Elvira said:
Actually Jesus was in hell...the grave...for 3 days...
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So, he's god, it's not like he would have suffered. Or do you believe Jesus is a masochist, and wanted to suffer for three days?

"Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption." Acts 2:27
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Yeah, that doesn't mean Jesus suffered. Unless he wanted to of course. Essentially Jesus went on a weekend road trip, so why in the world is this be considered something special?
 
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Elvira said:
I don't believe in Santa Clause nor do I celebrate Christmas so your argument is moot...
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And I don't believe in the bible. As a Christian surely you can put together a coherent argument explaining why someone should put more belief in the bible than in Christmas songs?
 
JustHanging said:
So, he's god, it's not like he would have suffered. Or do you believe Jesus is a masochist, and wanted to suffer for three days?



Yeah, that doesn't mean Jesus suffered. Unless he wanted to of course.
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Jesus is not God...the Bible states he is the son of God...
 
JustHanging said:
And I don't believe in the bible. As a Christian surely you can put together a coherent argument explaining why I should put more belief in the bible than in Christmas songs?
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Christmas is pagan...the Bible is not...
 
Elvira said:
Christmas is pagan...the Bible is not...
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That's an assertion, not a coherent argument explaining why I should put more belief in the bible than in Christmas songs.

As a Christian, are you unable to produce such an argument? Perhaps you could pray to your God to help you, as surely this must be important to him?
 
JustHanging said:
That's an assertion, not a coherent argument explaining why I should put more belief in the bible than in Christmas songs.

As a Christian, are you unable to produce such an argument? Perhaps you could pray to your God to help you, as surely this must be important to him?
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Frankly, I don't care what you believe...
 
Elvira said:
Jesus is not God...the Bible states he is the son of God...
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So there are two gods. Fine.

But why would God make Jesus going on a road trip for a weekend be a requirement to forgive the sins the mankind?
 
Elvira said:
Frankly, I don't care what you believe...
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That makes no sense. You started a thread in a public forum to begin a discussion.

And as a Christian shouldn't you follow the bible?

2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.


Although to be fair, I've noticed that most Christians are really really good at ignoring the bible when it's convenient.
 
JustHanging said:
That makes no sense. You started a thread in a public forum to begin a discussion.

And as a Christian shouldn't you follow the bible?

2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching.


Although to be fair, I've noticed that most Christians are really really good at ignoring the bible when it's convenient.
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You have made it very clear what you believe...you've also made it clear that you are not the type Christians are looking for...

"And wherever people do not receive you, on going out of that city, shake the dust off your feet for a witness against them.” Luke 9:5

"But after they kept on opposing him and speaking abusively, he shook out his garments and said to them: “Let your blood be on your own heads. I am clean. From now on I will go to people of the nations." Acts 18:6

"When those of the nations heard this, they began to rejoice and to glorify the word of Jehovah, and all those who were rightly disposed for everlasting life became believers." Acts 13:48
 
Elvira said:
You have made it very clear what you believe...
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Well yes, it would be deceitful to do otherwise.

you've also made it clear that you are not the type Christians are looking for...

"And wherever people do not receive you, on going out of that city, shake the dust off your feet for a witness against them.” Luke 9:5

"But after they kept on opposing him and speaking abusively, he shook out his garments and said to them: “Let your blood be on your own heads. I am clean. From now on I will go to people of the nations." Acts 18:6

"When those of the nations heard this, they began to rejoice and to glorify the word of Jehovah, and all those who were rightly disposed for everlasting life became believers." Acts 13:48
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Yeah, it's crazy how a book that's supposedly written and/or inspired by an all knowing god, isn't able to communicate a coherent message.

Romans 15:7 – "Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God."
 
JustHanging said:
Well yes, it would be deceitful to do otherwise.



Yeah, it's crazy how a book that's supposedly written and/or inspired by an all knowing god, isn't able to communicate a coherent message.

Romans 15:7 – "Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God."
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Context is everything...Paul is giving advice to spiritual brothers and sisters in Christ to be united...verse 6...

"so that unitedly you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."
 
JustHanging said:
Um, whoopie?

There were people who spent longer than that studying and believing in Zeus. Does that make Zeus exist?
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There's better evidence for Jesus and the God of the Bible. If you had done your homework you would know that.

JustHanging said:
I've studied it, and I have found no reason to believe anything magical occurred. There are no accounts written at the time. The gospels are all anonymous. The stories differ. Heck, historians aren't even sure that there was a Jesus.
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If you believe all that then you haven't done a good job studying it.
 
Elvira said:
It's also funny to see an atheist claim he has read the Bible once, maybe twice, at most, when Christians spend their whole lives reading and studying the Bible too many times to count...
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Only those indoctrinated into believing that it is the word of god willingly spend their whole lives reading and studying it. For the rest of us too much effort for very little payoff in terms of entertainment or life lessons. Aesop did a better job.
 
Cephus said:
Wallace is a joke. The religious have no clue what evidence actually is. They think that anything they can rationalize to make them feel better about their pre-existing beliefs qualifies as evidence and nothing could be further from the truth. Just because you want it to be true, that's not evidence that it is true. Just because you can't dream up a better explanation doesn't mean the explanation that makes you feel good is the right explanation. Just because a particular religious book gives you a warm fuzzy, that's not evidence that the book is true. The religious have no clue what evidence is, which is why they wind up looking so ridiculous when they trot it out.

Maybe they should do better.
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All paradises, all utopias are designed by who is not there, by the people who are not allowed in.
-- Toni Morrison


Nothing is so vulgar as the wish to be remarkable.
-- My father paraphrasing Oliver Wendell Holmes' Autocrat at the Breakfast Table​
 
Logicman said:
There's better evidence for Jesus and the God of the Bible.
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And yet so far you've been unable to provide it. Neither has any other Christian. Ever.

If you had done your homework you would know that.
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Then enlighten me. I'm always happy to learn.

If you believe all that then you haven't done a good job studying it.
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That outside of the bible, nobody has been able to produce good evidence that Jesus, son of God, exists? As I said, please enlighten me, I'm always happy to learn.

I hope it's something better than Tacitus.
 
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Elvira said:
I keep hearing comments about faith being blind...there is no proof...yet J Warner Wallace is able to make the connection between faith and evidence...faith is not blind but is based on good evidence...not complete proof but reasonable evidence...



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Everyone defined faith differently. The way I see it, if you have good evidence, you don't need faith.
 
JustHanging said:
And yet so far you've been unable to provide it. Neither has any other Christian. Ever.

Then enlighten me. I'm always happy to learn.

That outside of the bible, nobody has been able to produce good evidence that Jesus, son of God, exists? As I said, please enlighten me, I'm always happy to learn.

I hope it's something better than Tacitus.
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Do your own homework. I didn't take you to raise.

See - this is a prime example of why I keep telling you that you haven't done your homework.

Please don't bother me with any more of your sophomoric postings.
 
Logicman said:
Do your own homework. I didn't take you to raise.

See - this is a prime example of why I keep telling you that you haven't done your homework.

Please don't bother me with any more of your sophomoric postings.
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I run into this attitude all the time in on-line discussions.

It's where someone has been backed into a corner and cannot defend their position any more.

They will say "the truth is out there".

When asked for references, authors, academic papers, ISBN's etc etc they will either stop posting or say their proof is to be found in the public library and to come back when you've found evidence to support their position and they they're not going to do the other guy's "homework" for him.




The best one on her recently was Gfm7175...he claimed ancient Greece was a country and had a democracy that failed (proving all democracies fail and that the USA cannot therefore be a democracy). When asked directly for a source of his claims, he replied "History".

Gotta love him.
 
Elvira said:
Baloney...the Bible describes faith as being neither blind nor illogical...

“Faith is the assured expectation of things hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities though not beheld.”​ Hebrews 11:1
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'Not beheld', means blind.

Just saying
 
RAMOSS said:
'Not beheld', means blind.

Just saying
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It's really sad how the religious can't even read their own books of mythology without running them through the "religion filter" isn't it?
 
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