What is the rationale behind forgiving $250 billion in student debt?

[Noodlegawd]

To be clear.

I don't think we should just forgive student loan debt.
I think we should also subsidize future higher education so there aren't new loans created.

Ok, then maybe we don't disagree that much. I have no problem with the idea of helping to fund highly capable students with financial need, if they are going to major in subjects that are beneficial to our economy. But we already subsidize higher education a lot. There are many state schools that have very low tuition rates, and even those offer further financial aid to students who need it.

And those that still can't afford it have the option of taking loans or serving their country first to get a full ride when they get out.

 

[TearItAllDown]

The reasons it’s inadequate also pervade the college system, so there’s no reason to keep dumping money into failing systems

The educational system is failing because the entire educational system from pre-k to doctoral studies has been co-opted to support the democrat party. It's no longer about education and creating a competent workforce; its about the power grab.

 

[Noodlegawd]

European countries that pay for higher education don't seem to have any problem filling those "lower prestige" jobs. Probably because they pay a living wage and provide benefits to all.

The "American Way" is just one way to do things. And it's not even the best way, by many metrics.

They also don't peddle this nonsense that everyone should go to college. In Germany, not even everyone gets to go to a full academic high school. They're realistic.

 

[TearItAllDown]

Change the program to a one-time full scholarship, and limit it to those who study STEM courses and maintain a B or better in annual Federally moderated test scores.

This is just one example of rewarding excellence and not rewarding failure. Rewarding excellence is not popular at all with liberals. Rewarding failure will get you very far in the democrat party, look at the current POTUS.

 

[HK.227]

Biden is considering cancelling $321 billion in federal student loans.

In general, what we need is a system where it is the institutions of learning who misrepresent themselves and sell a bad product who are held accountable.
That is the only way we are ever going to weed out low quality education and eliminate all these associated problems in the long run.

 

[uptower]

All the options in the poll are emotive, not rational. Put aside a moment that higher education has become a racket and consider what economists have noted: those workers/consumers would be far more useful funneling their money directly back into the economy rather than merely servicing debt.

 

[I'm Immemorial]

We wouldn't be the only country to do so.

You are correct, sir! But we are also one of the only, if not one of the few, countries where a small but vocal minority would rather push their wheelchair-bound grandma into oncoming traffic to deny anything that could conceivably be of value to others. Yay!!

 

[molten_dragon]

I'm totally against any kind of student loan forgiveness unless the root cause of the problem (i.e. skyrocketing tuition rates) is solved first.

 

[Loulit01]

I'm totally against any kind of student loan forgiveness unless the root cause of the problem (i.e. skyrocketing tuition rates) is solved first.

That's fair.

 

[Loulit01]

The educational system is failing because the entire educational system from pre-k to doctoral studies has been co-opted to support the democrat party. It's no longer about education and creating a competent workforce; its about the power grab.

The education system is failing because kids can't read.

 

[TearItAllDown]

The education system is failing because kids can't read.

Why is that? How can a HS student graduate and only read and do math at a third grade level? I keep hearing horror stories about Baltimore public schools. Why doesn't the government do anything about this? My guess is politics and votes matter more than an educated populace. And an educated populace might begin to understand that the government is the problem, not the solution.

 

[TearItAllDown]

I'm totally against any kind of student loan forgiveness unless the root cause of the problem (i.e. skyrocketing tuition rates) is solved first.

And what are the root problems? Why are tuition rates skyrocketing? I bet if people keep digging further into this problem they will ultimately find that most of the responsibility belongs to the federal government, and the rest belongs to state and local government. Will the government ever accept blame? Doubt it. Most likely they will blame the failing education system on Putin or Trump, or concerned parents. Probably all 3. And a lot of improperly educated people will side with the government, thus the problem will never be fixed and just continue to get worse.

 

[Helix]

No, ability to pay is an excellent way to ration a resource. In any event if you overeducate too many people then who is supposed to do lower prestige jobs that need to be done?

I've sometimes wondered what it would be like to talk to someone who grew up in medieval Europe. Thanks, internet.

 

[post]

$3.9 billion is small potatoes compared to the possible $321 billion to be forgiven.
Does the fact that the contemplated forgiveness amount is 80 times larger than what you cited make any difference to you?

Does the fact you are scapegoating / demonizing per the G.O.P. wedge issue script make any difference to you?
Your rulze: 71 million, predominantly undereducated white adults can be misinformed into voting for a grifter cult leader to literally "**** the country," militantly demanding no consequence for voting to detonate their own democratic checks and balances along with every other American's, and not being phased in the least by that grifter's $25 million Trump University settlement or by his appointment of "Ms. Amway" to turn the Department of Education into a collection agency!

At one time, this RWE propaganda outlet contradicted the crux of your "blame shifting". Before Bezos, the money losing Washington Post was literally carried by the Graham family's predatory tuition harvesting...

Scandal at The Washington Post: Fraud, Lobbying & Insider Trading

In the summer of 2010, business columnist for The Washington Post Steven Pearlstein lifted the veil on the little-known company operating procedure that involves an incestuous relationship between his own employer, and the scandal-plagued, for-profit university known as Kaplan.1 In his column, Pearl

www.aim.org

by Rusty Weiss on March 8, 2012
"In the summer of 2010, business columnist for The Washington Post Steven Pearlstein lifted the veil on the little-known company operating procedure that involves an incestuous relationship between his own employer, and the scandal-plagued, for-profit university known as Kaplan.1 In his column, Pearlstein made the argument that while personnel in the newsroom may have nothing to do with Kaplan, they most certainly have “benefited from its financial success.”.."

Trump University - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

An article in the National Review described the organization as a "massive scam".[7]

Amway - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Amway has been investigated in various countries and by institutions such as the Federal Trade Commission (FTC) for alleged pyramid scheme practices. It has never been found guilty, though it has paid tens of millions of dollars to settle these suits.[8][9][10][11][12][13]

Judge gives tentative OK to $6 billion student debt relief deal​

https://www.courthousenews.com › judge-gives-tentativ...
Aug 4, 2022 — Student debt relief requests which then-Education Secretary Betsy DeVos' department denied could be settled in the $6 billion deal.

Judge Slams DeVos For Blanket Denials Of Student Loan ...​

https://www.forbes.com › adamminsky › 2020/10/20
Oct 20, 2020 — A federal judge issued a scathing rebuke to Education Secretary Betsy DeVos for issuing mass denials of student loan forgiveness ...

Free College Tuition: What Really Happened When We Tried It​

Shortly after being elected governor of California in 1966, Ronald Reagan proposed a tuition, a 10% cut from state funding and the firing of UC President Clark Kerr, who stood by students who were protesting rising costs. Apr 4, 2016

 

[molten_dragon]

And what are the root problems? Why are tuition rates skyrocketing? I bet if people keep digging further into this problem they will ultimately find that most of the responsibility belongs to the federal government, and the rest belongs to state and local government. Will the government ever accept blame? Doubt it. Most likely they will blame the failing education system on Putin or Trump, or concerned parents. Probably all 3. And a lot of improperly educated people will side with the government, thus the problem will never be fixed and just continue to get worse.

It's a pretty complicated issue with lots of blame to go around. The federal and state governments certainly deserve some of the blame but not all of it.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

It's a pretty complicated issue with lots of blame to go around. The federal and state governments certainly deserve some of the blame but not all of it.

It is not complicated at all. The government is encouraging so many people who should not be in college to go to college. When you stimulate demand you increase price.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

Biden ... forgiveness.

none of the poll choices seem to be rationales


so, this is probably just a troll thread, yes?

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Not true. Taxpayers pay what they pay, and the government spends tax receipts, but they also deficit spend. It never gets paid off, so no cost to taxpayers. And the govt. is not constrained by what they spent yesterday, or last year. They can create whatever money they need. No need to cut funding for other things.

If the govt. decided to deficit spend $2 trillion tomorrow, the net effect would be $2 trillion more in bonds held as assets by the private sector, and $2 billion added to GDP. Tax receipts won't change much, except for some that would come back due to the increased national income.

If the government creates too much money through deficit spending, you run the risk of inflation. This is monetarism 101 and the last year has once again showed the monetarist were right about the relationship between the supply of money in an economy and inflation.

The fact is, no one has to assume crushing financial debt to get a college degree, people choose to.

 

[post]

If the government creates too much money through deficit spending, you run the risk of inflation. This is monetarism 101 and the last year has once again showed the monetarist were right about the relationship between the supply of money in an economy and inflation.

The fact is, no one has to assume crushing financial debt to get a college degree, people choose to.

"The last year"? LOL! The massive borrowing was signed into law by Trump, not Biden. Since Biden's inauguration, the borrowing trend has reversed, as almost all appropriations signed by Biden are spent over a number of coming years and demanded by Sen. Joe Manchin to include revenue offsets designed to make these progressive supported appropriations pay for themselves, except, of course for Manchin's "compromise" with G.O.P. senators, "the Bi-Partisan Infrastructure Legislation," the only major legislation not entirely boycotted by G.O.P., because Manchin caved to G..O.P. demands that it be entirely funded by increasing the national debt!

Where do you obtain you're absurd POV?

https://www.unionleader.com ›

Our choice is Joe Biden* | Editorials | unionleader.com​

Oct 25, 2020 "...
"Since Trump took over, the national debt has exploded by more than 7 TRILLION dollars. While the last several trillion was in response to the COVID-19 economic crisis, at least the first three trillion was on the books well before the pandemic, while Trump was presiding over “...the best economy we’ve ever had in the history of our country.” (Trump’s words.)..."

Pre-pandemic debt vs debt level of $20.245 Trillion at end of 2017 fiscal year on 09/30/17. By early 2020, Trump boasted that this was the best economy, ever. So why was $3 trillion borrowed in just 29 months between 10/01/17 and 02/25/20?

Lumber cost $319 per thousand board feet when Trump was inaugurated and $913 on January 20, 2021.

Currently, 1,000 board feet of lumber costs $598.

US National Debt by Year

The U.S. national debt was over $31 trillion in 2022. In 1930, it was just $16 billion. The biggest impacts have been defense spending, recessions, and recently, the pandemic.

www.thebalance.com

End of Fiscal Year	Debt (in billions, rounded)	Debt-to-GDP Ratio	Major Events by Presidential Term

2016	$19,573	105%	Brexit
2017	$20,245	104%	Congress raised the debt ceiling
2018	$21,516	105%	Trump tax cuts
2019	$22,719	107%	Trade wars
2020	$27,748	129%	COVID-19 and 2020 recession
2021	$29,617	124%	COVID-19 and American Rescue Plan Act

https://www.crfb.org › blogs › infrastructure-plan-will-add-400-billion-deficit-cbo-finds

Infrastructure Plan Will Add $400 Billion to the Deficit, CBO Finds​

Aug 5, 2021 Offsetting revenue and spending provisions would save about $206 billion in budget authority and generate $173 billion of actual savings. On net, the legislation would cost over $340 billion based on its direct effects. This is roughly in line with our prior estimate of the bill. *CRFB outlay estimate based on CBO contract authority.

https://www.bloomberg.com › news › articles › 2021-12-20 › super-rich-americans-feel-relief-as-tax-hikes-cancelled-for-now

Super-Rich Americans Feel Relief as Tax Hikes Are Cancelled - Bloomberg.com​

Dec 20, 2021One bright spot is that pandemic relief has helped the poorest half of U.S. households boost their savings a bit. The bottom 50% of Americans now hold 2.5% of U.S. wealth, up 0.7 points since the...

 

[ALiberalModerate]

"The last year"? LOL! The massive borrowing was signed into law by Trump, not Biden. Since Biden's inauguration, the borrowing trend has reversed, as almost all appropriations signed by Biden are spent over a number of coming years and demanded by Sen. Joe Manchin to include revenue offsets designed to make these progressive supported appropriations pay for themselves, except, of course for Manchin's "compromise" with G.O.P. senators, "the Bi-Partisan Infrastructure Legislation," the only major legislation not entirely boycotted by G.O.P., because Manchin caved to G..O.P. demands that it be entirely funded by increasing the national debt!

Where do you obtain you're absurd POV?

https://www.unionleader.com ›

Our choice is Joe Biden* | Editorials | unionleader.com​

Oct 25, 2020 "...
"Since Trump took over, the national debt has exploded by more than 7 TRILLION dollars. While the last several trillion was in response to the COVID-19 economic crisis, at least the first three trillion was on the books well before the pandemic, while Trump was presiding over “...the best economy we’ve ever had in the history of our country.” (Trump’s words.)..."

Pre-pandemic debt vs debt level of $20.245 Trillion at end of 2017 fiscal year on 09/30/17. By early 2020, Trump boasted that this was the best economy, ever. So why was $3 trillion borrowed in just 29 months between 10/01/17 and 02/25/20?

Lumber cost $319 per thousand board feet when Trump was inaugurated and $913 on January 20, 2021.

Currently, 1,000 board feet of lumber costs $598.

US National Debt by Year

The U.S. national debt was over $31 trillion in 2022. In 1930, it was just $16 billion. The biggest impacts have been defense spending, recessions, and recently, the pandemic.

www.thebalance.com

End of Fiscal Year	Debt (in billions, rounded)	Debt-to-GDP Ratio	Major Events by Presidential Term

2016	$19,573	105%	Brexit
2017	$20,245	104%	Congress raised the debt ceiling
2018	$21,516	105%	Trump tax cuts
2019	$22,719	107%	Trade wars
2020	$27,748	129%	COVID-19 and 2020 recession
2021	$29,617	124%	COVID-19 and American Rescue Plan Act

https://www.crfb.org › blogs › infrastructure-plan-will-add-400-billion-deficit-cbo-finds

Infrastructure Plan Will Add $400 Billion to the Deficit, CBO Finds​

Aug 5, 2021 Offsetting revenue and spending provisions would save about $206 billion in budget authority and generate $173 billion of actual savings. On net, the legislation would cost over $340 billion based on its direct effects. This is roughly in line with our prior estimate of the bill. *CRFB outlay estimate based on CBO contract authority.

https://www.bloomberg.com › news › articles › 2021-12-20 › super-rich-americans-feel-relief-as-tax-hikes-cancelled-for-now

Super-Rich Americans Feel Relief as Tax Hikes Are Cancelled - Bloomberg.com​

Dec 20, 2021One bright spot is that pandemic relief has helped the poorest half of U.S. households boost their savings a bit. The bottom 50% of Americans now hold 2.5% of U.S. wealth, up 0.7 points since the...

I know who signed most of the borrowing. The last year is when we felt the inflationary effects though.

 

[jaypatriot]

what we need is a system where it is the institutions of learning who misrepresent themselves and sell a bad product who are held accountable.

One important reason there is more than $1.7 trillion in student loans outstanding is because there is no generally accepted way to hold colleges accountable for poor student economic outcomes. Students who graduate are not like cookies on a pan all looking alike. Some students become gainfully employed and some are looking for work because they are not qualified or they are over qualified. How do you hold schools accountable for student outcomes?



What is the total amount of student debt?

• The total amount of outstanding student loans was $1.75 trillion in 2021, growing from $1.7 trillion in 2020 and $1.57 trillion in 2019. 2 Roughly 43% of all Americans who went to college took on some form of debt to do so. Student loans were by far the most common borrowing options (95% of those who hold education debt took out student loans).

These five charts show how bad the student loan debt situation is​

www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/student-loan-statistics-2019-n997836

 

[jaypatriot]

none of the poll choices seem to be rationales


so, this is probably just a troll thread, yes?

The thread is having its desired effect. Good discussions on a somewhat insoluble subject. And you are not being forced to volunteer your opinion.

 

[jaypatriot]

It's a pretty complicated issue with lots of blame to go around. The federal and state governments certainly deserve some of the blame but not all of it.

I keep wondering how many students are gaming the student loan system thinking that the federal government is going to forgive student loans.

 

[TearItAllDown]

You gotta' love the timing. The dems knew they would get crushed in the midterms from the start and just went about being dems, knowing they can just buy votes right before the midterms. Now that inflation might be subsiding a bit, it's time to flood the system with another 300 million on top of the 700 million they just passed to feed the swamp. Oh, and expect college tuition to soon become 100K a year for those very important Transgender Studies degrees. You gotta' love democrat management of the economy and the country.

 

[The flaming lib]

1) Stick it to the tax payers yet again. Thanks pedo Joe

2) Votes. Dems don’t do squat without researching what votes are available