What is the moral difference between Robert E Lee and German Generals like Herman Goring, Alfred Jodl and Wilhelm Keitel?

[ColdHardTruth]

And what about Erwin Rommel?

Erwin Rommel (The Desert Fox) was murdered on Hitler's orders (he was forced to commit suicide) because somebody mentioned his name during the investigation into the assassination attempt at Wolf's Lair) because Hitler thought he was part of Valkarie. He was not.

And what about Claus Graf Schenk von Staufenberg?

von Staufenberg is an anomaly. He tried to kill Hitler at the Wolf's Lair. He was still a Nazi and still responsible for his own actions.

And what about Hindenburg?
Etc etc etc ....

Hindenburg was the president of Germany in the 20s. This was before the Nazis.

 

[Juin]

What is the moral difference between Robert E Lee and German Generals like Alfred Jodl and Wilhelm

Or what is the moral difference between Gen George Washington and Jodl? If I am not mistaken Washington fought for a slave state and himself was a big industrial scale slave owner

 

[ColdHardTruth]

Exactly that. The US political leadership answers for the campaign against Iraq, not the soldiers.

This is true.

The "Nazis", yes. No German soldier was hung for just being a soldier

No, they didn't. If they were in any way implicated in war crimes, they were hung or imprisoned.

 

[Tigerace117]

The political leadership answers to that.





Of course it is.

Nope, just following orders is not a defense. That’s been throughly established.

 

[Juin]

The German generals, as nasty as they were, were not traitors to their county. Lee was absolutely a traitor. All of them were racists of the highest caliber and most were terrible human beings.

Was Gen George Washington a traitor to his country? And was George Washington an industrial scale slaver?

 

[CLAX1911]

Dude, you are just dodging and playing dumb

blame me if it makes you feel better I don't really care.

Let me know when you want a straight forward conversation.

All I'm ever interested in is straightforward conversation. That's why I refuse to jump down rabbit holes if that's the game you want to play I'm going to frustrate you.

 

[ColdHardTruth]

Was Gen George Washington a traitor to his country? And was George Washington an industrial scale slaver?

Gen. Washington was an American. He defended his country from the British and then surrendered his sword to congress.

 

[Yes_Minister]

blame me if it makes you feel better I don't really care.


All I'm ever interested in is straightforward conversation. That's why I refuse to jump down rabbit holes if that's the game you want to play I'm going to frustrate you.

No, you are not, you constantly trying to change the subject or demand clarification for things I have done already.

I keep asking whether former Confederates created the black codes and the share cropping system, what evidence do you have that the Confederates would done away with slavery in 3 years and you try to change the subject to third world exploitation or something else off topic.

 

[CLAX1911]

No, you are not, you constantly trying to change the subject or demand clarification for things I have done already.

It's okay you can blame me. Taking responsibility comes with maturity.

I keep asking whether former Confederates created the black codes and the share cropping system, what evidence do you have that the Confederates would done away with slavery in 3 years and you try to change the subject to third world exploitation or something else off topic.

No I gave you a direct answer you just didn't like it because the self doesn't get to be looking bad if that answer is true.

I think slavery would have ended a few years after the Civil war because of the industrial revolution I'm not talking about the third world I wasn't the first time I said that.

You wanted to distract with some off topic nonsense about Hitler and his campaign to subjugate people.

 

[bomberfox]

Probably more of a Guderian lol..

 

[Juin]

.
Juin said:
Was Gen George Washington a traitor to his country? And was George Washington an industrial scale slaver?

Gen. Washington was an American. He defended his country from the British and then surrendered his sword to congress.

What was Gen George Washington's country before 1776? Gen George Washington and all his merry men were all British subjects. Was that not the case? In that sense Gen Robert E Lee did nothing that Gen George Washington did not do. The difference is that one was successful and the other was not.

 

[ColdHardTruth]

.
Juin said:
Was Gen George Washington a traitor to his country? And was George Washington an industrial scale slaver?

What was Gen George Washington's country before 1776? Gen George Washington and all his merry men were all British subjects. Was that not the case? In that sense Gen Robert E Lee did nothing that Gen George Washington did not do. The difference is that one was successful and the other was not.

Defending the confederate traitors doesn't change anything. Lee was a traitor, he died a traitor, he was buried a traitor.

Washington was living in America, as an American. All of use were subjegated in those days. Then some of us stood up and told the king to go sit on a landmine.

 

[Juin]

Good question.

Those German generals were fighting for their country.

Just as General Lee was (hear tell that he did not want the South to secede, but he felt loyalty to the South when it did. Remember: Many people assumed that a state could secede, since the Constitution is mum on the topic).

The American generals who fought in Vietnam and Iraq were also fighting for their country.

As far as the "morality" is concerned, that is up to each general.

Who knows? Maybe some generals throughout history have resigned rather than fight in what they consider to be an immoral war. (Are there some Russian generals who are dragging their feet because they are appalled by the war in Ukraine?)

Agree with all your points. Especially, "As far as the "morality" is concerned, that is up to each general." A General has to be judged based only on how he conducted himself as a General according to acceptable conducts in war.

 

[Juin]

Defending the confederate traitors doesn't change anything. Lee was a traitor, he died a traitor, he was buried a traitor.

How was Gen George Washington not a traitor to his King, George III of Great Britain? You appear to prefer to pick and chose your history.

Washington was living in America, as an American. All of use were subjegated in those days. Then some of us stood up and told the king to go sit on a landmine.

You are making the case for the Confederates as well.

 

[Yes_Minister]

It's okay you can blame me. Taking responsibility comes with maturity.

Ha! Your funny.

No I gave you a direct answer you just didn't like it because the self doesn't get to be looking bad if that answer is true.

No, you didn't, you didn't say who created share cropping system and you provided no evidence that Confederates would get rid of slavery in 3 years, where is any serious documentation of that claim.

I think slavery would have ended a few years after the Civil war because of the industrial revolution I'm not talking about the third world I wasn't the first time I said that.

You wanted to distract with some off topic nonsense about Hitler and his campaign to subjugate people.

If we are saying what's difference between a Nazi and Confederate General, that is on topic.

 

[StillBallin75]

Nothing, other than that American nationalism dictates that we worship Confederates for fear of hurting their descendants' feelings.

 

[ColdHardTruth]

How was Gen George Washington not a traitor to his King, George III of Great Britain? You appear to prefer to pick and chose your history.

You are making the case for the Confederates as well.

No, I am not. The confederacy was and is a collection of traitors. If Lincoln had bigger balls, we wouldn't have this problem today.

 

[Tigerace117]

Agree with all your points. Especially, "As far as the "morality" is concerned, that is up to each general." A General has to be judged based only on how he conducted himself as a General according to acceptable conducts in war.

The German commanders systematically violated the laws of war on numerous occasions, in addition to support genocide. Many levels of the Heer were as enthusiastic believers in Nazi ideology as the SS.

 

[j brown's body]

Or what is the moral difference between Gen George Washington and Jodl? If I am not mistaken Washington fought for a slave state and himself was a big industrial scale slave owner

There was more to Washington than fighting to protect slavery. For instance, he could have become a dictator, but he declined it.

 

[j brown's body]

How was Gen George Washington not a traitor to his King, George III of Great Britain? You appear to prefer to pick and chose your history.






You are making the case for the Confederates as well.

Rejecting monarchy is a good thing.

 

[j brown's body]

I could be wrong but if I'm not mistaken, Lee told his Confederates to STOP BEING Confederates after the war, told his wife that he did not want to be buried in Confederate uniform and was opposed to erecting monuments to Confederate heroes.

Lee did nothing to aid the bringing of 4 million former slaves into the country. He never condemned the violence against them. He could have made a difference.

Grant, who really should have been venerated, said Lee was “setting an example of forced acquiescence so grudging and pernicious in its effects as to be hardly realized.”

 

[j brown's body]

The South EXPLICITLY stated they were fighting to defend slavery.

He refuses to regard the primary source evidence put before his eyes.

 

[Juin]

Juin said:
Or what is the moral difference between Gen George Washington and Jodl? If I am not mistaken Washington fought for a slave state and himself was a big industrial scale slave owner

There was more to Washington than fighting to protect slavery. For instance, he could have become a dictator, but he declined it.

LOL I am sure the hundreds of slaves George Washington owned at Mt Vernon Vernon. I can imagine the human chattels chatting with themselves, "There was more to Massa Washington than putting us in chains, and branding us occassionally with hot irons; Massa Washington could have been a dictator, in addition to slaver, but declined it" This is too funny.

 

[Juin]

.
Juin said:
How was Gen George Washington not a traitor to his King, George III of Great Britain? You appear to prefer to pick and chose your history.

Rejecting monarchy is a good thing.

If one is not a monarchist

 

[j brown's body]

.
Juin said:
How was Gen George Washington not a traitor to his King, George III of Great Britain? You appear to prefer to pick and chose your history.




If one is not a monarchist

It's called the Enlightenment.