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What is the Greatest Tragedy this Nation has Endured?

What is the Greatest Tragedy this Nation has had to Endure?

  • Katrina

    Votes: 4 5.8%
  • 9/11

    Votes: 7 10.1%
  • JFK Assassination

    Votes: 2 2.9%
  • RFK Assassination

    Votes: 1 1.4%
  • MLK Assassination

    Votes: 1 1.4%
  • Pearl Harbor

    Votes: 1 1.4%
  • Cuban Missile Crisis

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Vietnam

    Votes: 8 11.6%
  • Great Depression

    Votes: 8 11.6%
  • Civil War

    Votes: 37 53.6%

  • Total voters
    69
Many have selected the Civil War. It makes sense, because of the devistation of life between borthers. Families were torn apart and the country was divided. But despite racial tension that blew over during the 50's and 60's and the continuing improvement today, something good came out of it. We are a whole country that has quickly grown to become the greatest power on earth.

I selected the Vietnam War. The war itself was not what made this era so tragic, rather than reaction our society took. Aside from racial tensions coming to a head, the country was torn in two on seperate fronts. Not between North and South, but between the youth and the elderly, between the military and the civilian, between the rich college bound citizen and the poor military bound citizen, and an individual's ideologies and their sense of patriotism. It was a horribly confusing and hateful time for everyone. Our society showed the world how despicable Americans could be. Either an individual was for the war or they were not. Back then, there was no politically correct notion of "Support the troop, not the war." A huge percentage of combatants were drafted and did not want any part of the war and were left with two choices - Do your duty or dodge the draft. If they dodged, they would have to leave the country or simply dissapear into the population forever branded. If they donned the uniform, they would be gauranteed a distasteful return home (if they survived) to the chants of "baby killer" or simply to be ignored. The war was being fought in the halls of Congress and by the sentiments of the protestors on the streets of our cities. Victory had nothing to do with the soldier or Marine's efforts in the field. Someone wrote on another thread that WWII was our last 'patriotic' war and will probably be our last. It was during the Vietnam War era that our unity was torn apart and our conspiracy like suspicion of government became deep rooted. We have largely remained this way today. We still look back into our officials pasts with great interest as to where they stood and many base their votes on this.

A lesson learned from this era for the Government was that victory should fall on the responsibility of the tactics and know how of the military, not the politics of Washington. BUT, the most noticable lesson learned from this era, could probably be given to the protester. Yesterday's protesters are today's parents and civil leaders. They look back and realize how unfair they were with regret and rightfully so. The protestors of old mixed their precarious convictions with the fashion of protesting (still seen in Colleges today for one thing or another), rampant drug use, hippie like "peace, love, and harmony" communes, and an almost complete disregard for stability. At least with today's protestor, we see more maturity (Moore excluded) and a truer sincerity (however misguided I may think they are.) I might not understand "Support the troop, but not the war", but it's better than being spit on.
 
Originally posted by GySgt:
A lesson learned from this era for the Government was that victory should fall on the responsibility of the tactics and know how of the military, not the politics of Washington
If this is a passive-aggresive way of denouncing Rumsfield, I'll buy you a beer.
 
If this is a passive-aggresive way of denouncing Rumsfield, I'll buy you a beer.

Well then I guess someone will save his money tonite.
 
GySgt said:
Many have selected the Civil War. It makes sense, because of the devistation of life between borthers. Families were torn apart and the country was divided. But despite racial tension that blew over during the 50's and 60's and the continuing improvement today, something good came out of it. We are a whole country that has quickly grown to become the greatest power on earth.

I selected the Vietnam War. The war itself was not what made this era so tragic, rather than reaction our society took. Aside from racial tensions coming to a head, the country was torn in two on seperate fronts. Not between North and South, but between the youth and the elderly, between the military and the civilian, between the rich college bound citizen and the poor military bound citizen, and an individual's ideologies and their sense of patriotism. It was a horribly confusing and hateful time for everyone. Our society showed the world how despicable Americans could be. Either an individual was for the war or they were not. Back then, there was no politically correct notion of "Support the troop, not the war." A huge percentage of combatants were drafted and did not want any part of the war and were left with two choices - Do your duty or dodge the draft. If they dodged, they would have to leave the country or simply dissapear into the population forever branded. If they donned the uniform, they would be gauranteed a distasteful return home (if they survived) to the chants of "baby killer" or simply to be ignored. The war was being fought in the halls of Congress and by the sentiments of the protestors on the streets of our cities. Victory had nothing to do with the soldier or Marine's efforts in the field. Someone wrote on another thread that WWII was our last 'patriotic' war and will probably be our last. It was during the Vietnam War era that our unity was torn apart and our conspiracy like suspicion of government became deep rooted. We have largely remained this way today. We still look back into our officials pasts with great interest as to where they stood and many base their votes on this.

A lesson learned from this era for the Government was that victory should fall on the responsibility of the tactics and know how of the military, not the politics of Washington. BUT, the most noticable lesson learned from this era, could probably be given to the protester. Yesterday's protesters are today's parents and civil leaders. They look back and realize how unfair they were with regret and rightfully so. The protestors of old mixed their precarious convictions with the fashion of protesting (still seen in Colleges today for one thing or another), rampant drug use, hippie like "peace, love, and harmony" communes, and an almost complete disregard for stability. At least with today's protestor, we see more maturity (Moore excluded) and a truer sincerity (however misguided I may think they are.) I might not understand "Support the troop, but not the war", but it's better than being spit on.

Actually, I would say many of your observations about the Vietnam conflict would also be applicable to the Civil war.

Indeed the civil war was also a conflict that ripped the country apart, literally. Soldiers were drawn from the the most impoverished areas of the country at the time, drafted to destroy their own land, many of whome came to that land to escape the very situation they were drafted into. Those soldiers were forced to endure un-imaginable hardships at the hands of their own countrymen be it withstanding horrific conditions upon capture or conditions under their own leaders.

The war itself was premised upon the worst of principles, maintaining economic strength over abolishing slavery and resulted in a similar sentiment of distrust in goverment and other citizens under reconstruction. That sentiment led to the murder of President Lincoln and a conspiracy that threatened the whole federal government and many acts of violence in retribution. Worse still was that the same division carried over into the 20th century through anti re-construction confederate sentiment in the South that resulted in organizations like the Klu Klux Klan, sentiment that unfortunately still exists at the core of many American's beliefs to this day.

I completely agree with your assessment of Vietnam in every way and I think save the Civil Waryou may very well have a likely candidate, but I'd still have to say that the Civil war takes the prize because of the magnitude of the conflict, the resulting Coup that threatened the Union at its most Fragile time and the resulting Political and Social residual ramifications the lasted for so long afterwards.

Ultimately I think your right to say good things came out of the Civil war but it was a terrible price to pay as a nation.
 
Aryan Imperium said:
I would vote the "granting of equal rights to the non-white races" but you don`t have that option on your poll.

You are so wrong.

The correct answer is; Your daddy's condom breaking.

Just when I thought I'd made enough fun of stupid Nazi's.
 
Billo_Really said:
If this is a passive-aggresive way of denouncing Rumsfield, I'll buy you a beer.


The General's in the field are controlling the war. The only clear cut interference by the Government (that I'm aware of) was our first assault into Fallujah (I was there for that one). After making our way through the city with a minimum of violence, we had the bad guys cornered. Intsead of finishing the job, we were told to pull out in the interests of settling the political bickering between Shi'ites and Sunni. The result of our pull out was a two month later trip back into Fallujah where the bad guys had gathered more forces and dug in. We lost more Marines and more civilians died, because politics interefered with military know how and we were not allowed to finish the job the first time. Oh yeah..and about the Sunni / Shi'ite bickering...they're still doing it.

In Vietnam, this was common place.
 
Crispy said:
Actually, I would say many of your observations about the Vietnam conflict would also be applicable to the Civil war.

Indeed the civil war was also a conflict that ripped the country apart, literally. Soldiers were drawn from the the most impoverished areas of the country at the time, drafted to destroy their own land, many of whome came to that land to escape the very situation they were drafted into. Those soldiers were forced to endure un-imaginable hardships at the hands of their own countrymen be it withstanding horrific conditions upon capture or conditions under their own leaders.

The war itself was premised upon the worst of principles, maintaining economic strength over abolishing slavery and resulted in a similar sentiment of distrust in goverment and other citizens under reconstruction. That sentiment led to the murder of President Lincoln and a conspiracy that threatened the whole federal government and many acts of violence in retribution. Worse still was that the same division carried over into the 20th century through anti re-construction confederate sentiment in the South that resulted in organizations like the Klu Klux Klan, sentiment that unfortunately still exists at the core of many American's beliefs to this day.

I completely agree with your assessment of Vietnam in every way and I think save the Civil Waryou may very well have a likely candidate, but I'd still have to say that the Civil war takes the prize because of the magnitude of the conflict, the resulting Coup that threatened the Union at its most Fragile time and the resulting Political and Social residual ramifications the lasted for so long afterwards.

Ultimately I think your right to say good things came out of the Civil war but it was a terrible price to pay as a nation.


I can certainly appreciate your points on the Civil War.
 
Again no war is as devastating to this country then liberalism is. Liberalism has repudiated and concocted what this country means and stands for. The ACLU should be taken out and shot for their standpoints.

"Liberalism is a mental disorder." Savage
 
SKILMATIC said:
Again no war is as devastating to this country then liberalism is. Liberalism has repudiated and concocted what this country means and stands for. The ACLU should be taken out and shot for their standpoints.

"Liberalism is a mental disorder." Savage


:yt :applaud

to true
 
SKILMATIC said:
Again no war is as devastating to this country then liberalism is. Liberalism has repudiated and concocted what this country means and stands for. The ACLU should be taken out and shot for their standpoints.

"Liberalism is a mental disorder." Savage

Liberalism is actually the first thing I always think of when giving thoughts to how far we have strayed. It's a definate path to anarchy where values hold no strength and law has no meaning. We can see this everytime someone pushes the line of decency by exercising a "freedom" and our liberal masses defend it by re-interpreting "what our Fore Father's meant."
 
I would have to say the american civil war. I really hope it never comes to that again. Americans killing other americans wouldn't be something I would enjoy doing. Anyone ever read the Killer Angels?
 
FinnMacCool said:
I would have to say the american civil war. I really hope it never comes to that again. Americans killing other americans wouldn't be something I would enjoy doing. Anyone ever read the Killer Angels?

No...but if this country ever had a civil war, it would definately be between liberals and conservatives. Guess which side would have the benefit of the military? BWAHAHAHAHA!
 
No...but if this country ever had a civil war, it would definately be between liberals and conservatives. Guess which side would have the benefit of the military? BWAHAHAHAHA!

Which is impart the reason why they are so passive dont you think? They beleive that no defense is defense. They beleive that no killing is ok. Well I bet you that if they did have support of the military that they would love to harness it for their political gain as they use everything else as political gain. Just look at what happened to katrina? Please dont get me started on that issue.
 
Originally posted by SKILMATIC:
Which is impart the reason why they are so passive dont you think? They beleive that no defense is defense. They beleive that no killing is ok. Well I bet you that if they did have support of the military that they would love to harness it for their political gain as they use everything else as political gain. Just look at what happened to katrina? Please dont get me started on that issue.
Earth to SKIL, let me know when your done playing make-believe.
 
Earth to SKIL, let me know when your done playing make-believe.

Well I would if you would kindly descend fomr Mars. :2razz:
 
Originally posted by SKILMATIC:
Well I would if you would kindly descend fomr Mars
Wrong, not on Mars. Try again, maybe your luck will change. Or just stop trying to speak for others and just speak for yourself!
 
Wrong, not on Mars. Try again, maybe your luck will change. Or just stop trying to speak for others and just speak for yourself!

Are you sure buddy? I coudve sworn that your talking points memo was from out of space? Mabe I was misguided by your inability to discern from facts and non facts. But dont worry your not the only person with this problem. It comes with the terrirtory of liberalism. I still love you though
 
Originally posted by SKILMATIC:
Are you sure buddy? I coudve sworn that your talking points memo was from out of space? Mabe I was misguided by your inability to discern from facts and non facts. But dont worry your not the only person with this problem. It comes with the terrirtory of liberalism. I still love you though
Care to give some examples of this?
 
No, I won't.

WEll ok I will give you one.

You and ban keep claiming there were no WMD's when infact there were. Sadaam used chem weapons on his own people which were WMD's. So your wrong on that one. Do I need to carry on with more or can you just admit that one.
 
Originally posted by SKILMATIC:
WEll ok I will give you one.

You and ban keep claiming there were no WMD's when infact there were. Sadaam used chem weapons on his own people which were WMD's. So your wrong on that one. Do I need to carry on with more or can you just admit that one.
There is evidence to indicate he didn't gas the Kurds. That is was the Iranians gas that led to the deaths.

But what is your point about the WMD's? Whether he had or hadn't, neither one is a legal reason to invade.
 
Whether he had or hadn't, neither one is a legal reason to invade.

Well then why do you consistently keep bringing it up? I mean there have been countless posts about this. Why all the sudden demote this argument that you were so staunchly for?
 
There is evidence to indicate he didn't gas the Kurds.

Well theres evidence showing that hitler wasnt trying to exterminate the jews either but we all know that was a sham.
 
Originally posted by SKILMATIC:
Well then why do you consistently keep bringing it up? I mean there have been countless posts about this. Why all the sudden demote this argument that you were so staunchly for?
What the hell are you talking about? I asked you to cite some examples of my "un-discerning nature". You brought the WMD example, which is quite a bad one. In addition, it didn't answer my question. In fact, it generated more questions. I want answers! So produce!
 
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