What is the essence of Conservatism?

[AARguy]

What a beautiful fantasy you have there. Sounds like Pulitzer prize material.

Your vagueness makes your post irrelevant. What EXACTLY do you have a problem with? Are you capable of stating SPECIFICS so that we might discuss? Your vagueness makes your comment silly.

 

[LostInSeattle]

Sorry, but no. There are significant variations within conservatism, just as there are various types of centrism, progressivism, libertarianism, socialism etc. Just to name a few:

• Neoconservatism
• Paleoconservatism
• Movement conservatism
• Liberal conservatism
• Populist conservatism
• Social conservatism
• Fiscal conservatism
• Evangelical conservatism

I'd also argue that "Trumpism" is not an actual or genuine type of conservatism, though it shares the autocratic / authoritarian tendencies of the illiberal flavors of conservatism. His vaguely right-wing cult of personality capitalized upon and exacerbated numerous existing trends of the Republican Party to drop any concern for principle, in exchange for raw power, picking culture war fights they usually lose, and "pwning the libs." Among the common conservative principles widely violated in the past 4 years:

Federalism
Originalism
Separation of powers
Rule of law
Independence of law enforcement
Independence of the judiciary
Democracy
Involvement in foreign affairs
Fighting against dictators and dictatorships abroad
Fiscal responsibility
Cutting spending
Minimal government
Respect for the military
Not using the government to pick winners in the free market
Free trade
Balance of powers / reining in the POTUS - Executive branch
The importance of character
Individual responsibility
Holding elected officials accountable
Preventing foreign interference in US elections
Fighting corruption
Peaceful transition of power
Putting nation over self-interest
A basic respect for the truth

This is exactly why I don't use the terms liberal, conservative, libertarian, progressive, socialist etc., except in very specific and clearly defined ways. It's also why I have not posted my political leaning. There is sufficient variation in every category that it renders the terms not just meaningless but misleading, in part because they subsume so many things and in part because they often lead other people to project beliefs on you that may not be correct. It really grates when I hear people say, as they often do on this forum and others , "Liberals believe xxxx" or "conservatives always think Y...." Totally counterproductive to useful dialogue.

 

[LostInSeattle]

The essence of conservatism is self reliance. EARN everything. No freebies unless there is real hardship involved. If real need is present... help out. But let bums be bums. Let heroes excel. The rest is all issue by issue choice... issue by issue analysis required.

Let winners be joined by the commonality of purpose under a brother(/sister)hood of a united society, a common country based on that freedom to be an individual, without burdens imposed by others who would limit that freedom.

How do you feel about inheritance taxes?

 

[AARguy]

This is exactly why I don't use the terms liberal, conservative, libertarian, progressive, socialist etc., except in very specific and clearly defined ways. It's also why I have not posted my political leaning. There is sufficient variation every category that it renders the terms not just meaningless but misleading, in part because they subsume so many things and in part because they often lead other people to project beliefs on you that may not be correct. It really grates when I hear people, as they often do on this forum and others , "Liberals believe xxxx" or "conservatives always think Y...." Totally counterproductive to useful dialogue.

The variations in political thought are as endless as the numbers of minds thinking thoughts. Anyone who tries to categorize the limitless trends of human thought is doomed to failure. Even at a radical Antifa Convention... it would be very difficult to find two people that always agree.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

I tend to draw a line between Republicanism and Conservatism. Lots of people, it turned out, valued their identity as Republican Tribalists more than they did Conservatism :-

For all intents and purposes, conservatism in America is what the majority of people that identify as conservative believe it to be.

 

[AARguy]

How do you feel about inheritance taxes?

Much like I feel about blue-eyed wombats. They both have the same importance to me.

 

[Waddy]

The essence of Conservatism today is to hold rabid liberalism in check. I actually think liberals (Democrats) have done some good things. They were responsible for the consumer laws passed back in the 70's, which protect us all from shoddy, dangerous products. They led the way on environmental issues, Social Security and Medicare. Democrats have done some nice work. But then they always go too far. They can't just accept that the job is done, they got what they wanted on many issues. Of course, that attitude probably won't get them any more donations; politicians need issues, even if they have to be invented. So they invent and embrace such idiotic "issues" as trangenders in women's sports, or Critical Race Theory, or open borders. Or they contend that math is racist. The job of Conservatives is to rein them in. Save them from themselves.

 

[skeptic llc]

How do you feel about inheritance taxes?

Thank you, the party of supposed self-reliance is always desperate to not tax dead people's wealth.

 

[yankintx]

I would be interested to know how many Conservatives here have read Barry Goldwaters Conscience of a Conservative.

 

[rocket88]

So the guy is an anti trumper

Ironically, exactly the type of guy they love to rail against as a RINO.

 

[JohnnyDollar]

Well it used to mean a lot of things, but for the past 5 years and for the foreseeable future, conservatism is whatever Trump tells you it is. No one ever could've imagined you guys would flip on so many of your alleged deepest held convictions.

This is just one of the problems with a two party system. All the flip flopping that goes on in both party's. The GOP used to be for more open borders. And not that long ago. (Reagan). The democrats, back then, cared about the American working class. And wanted to secure the border. For the simple fact that illegals took jobs that Americans were still willing to do.
Both party's have flip flopped on many issues over the last 50 years. I think they do it to try to get more voters. Obviously, neither party give's a rats ass about "We the people."
Proof: Both parties have had the majority. When they do, nothing ever gets fixed.
Example: When W had a full majority of republicans, the "Sanctity of life" bill got stuck in committee like 5 times. Most republican voters don't know this. So they still blame the democrats for abortions still being legal.
When Obama had a full majority of democrats, the best healthcare plan they passed was nothing more than a bailout for insurance companies. And the democrat voters blamed the republicans.

After a while, you start seeing a pattern. And you realize that they're not going to actually fix anything. Even when they can.

 

[JohnnyDollar]

This is exactly why I don't use the terms liberal, conservative, libertarian, progressive, socialist etc., except in very specific and clearly defined ways. It's also why I have not posted my political leaning. There is sufficient variation in every category that it renders the terms not just meaningless but misleading, in part because they subsume so many things and in part because they often lead other people to project beliefs on you that may not be correct. It really grates when I hear people say, as they often do on this forum and others , "Liberals believe xxxx" or "conservatives always think Y...." Totally counterproductive to useful dialogue.

Not to mention the fact that most people don't even know the difference. A Reagan defined conservative wouldn't make it in todays political world. Even amongst conservatives. Nor would JFK be accepted by todays liberals. The progressives would eat him alive.

 

[prometeus]

The sad part about it, Trump wasn't elected because he was a conservative.

True. He was elected because the scum of this nation found someone like themselves and voted for him. Have you asked yourself why he became the nominee?

 

[prometeus]

I would be interested to know how many Conservatives here have read Barry Goldwaters Conscience of a Conservative.

Didn't Bozell really write it?

 

[highroller]

I tend to draw a line between Republicanism and Conservatism. Lots of people, it turned out, valued their identity as Republican Tribalists more than they did Conservatism :-(

No Rush Limbaugh said after Donald Trump won that conservatism wins every time its tried.

Conservatism is whatever Republicans say it is because conservatism is nothing more than Republicanism.

 

[LostInSeattle]

I would be interested to know how many Conservatives here have read Barry Goldwaters Conscience of a Conservative.

I haven't read Goldwater's book, but I found Russell Kirk's The Conservative Mind to be quite thought provoking. And his ten principles are a good crib sheet: https://theimaginativeconservative.org/ten-conservative-principles#:~:text=by Russell Kirk. Being neither a religion nor,men have professed during the past two centuries

Also, in Hitchens' book on Thomas Paine, he has a wonderful depiction of the classic tete a tete Paine had with Burke that encapsulates so much of the debate between liberalism and conservatism.

 

[LostInSeattle]

Didn't Bozell really write it?

He did indeed.

 

[JohnnyDollar]

True. He was elected because the scum of this nation found someone like themselves and voted for him. Have you asked yourself why he became the nominee?

There's many reasons why people voted for Trump. I didn't vote for Trump, but I wasn't about to vote for Clinton. She was a war monger. Wars being one of my biggest voting issues.
Besides all that, I liked Tulsi Gabbard. Her (and others) exposing how the DNC rigged the primary for Clinton, convinced me she was crooked as well as being too pro war.
Trump spoke out against the wars. That resonated. Of course that turned out to be a lie, because he didn't end any wars.
His proposals to change Obamacare sounded good. His support getting more violent thugs off the streets, like the Mexican cartels that have infiltrated the US, also sounded good.
I consider Trump to be a lot like Reagan. Talks conservatively. But is actions didn't really fit his speeches. "What you do, means a whole lot more than anything you've got to say." Radney Foster

Being an ex salesman, I could tell Trump was FOS when he was campaigning. I recognized his sales pitches. But I, and a lot of others, recognized Clinton for her establishment connections. And basically, was just sick of the whole Bush/Clinton era. At least those in swing states.

Question: Why do the DNC and RNC always throw their decent candidates (Tulsi Gabbard and Ron Paul) under their bus?

 

[yankintx]

Didn't Bozell really write it?

Yes

But have you read it

The Conscience of a Conservative - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[prometeus]

Yes

But have you read it

Not all of it and now that it was brought up I will have to go back and read the whole thing.

 

[prometeus]

There's many reasons why people voted for Trump.

None. The important question is why and how he became the nominee?

She was a war monger.

Really? And who do you think she would have declared war on?

Trump spoke out against the wars. That resonated. Of course that turned out to be a lie

LIke everything he said and says.

His proposals to change Obamacare sounded good.

Why? In what way?

 

[JohnnyDollar]

None. The important question is why and how he became the nominee?

Really? And who do you think she would have declared war on?

LIke everything he said and says.

Why? In what way?

It's hard to have a conversation with someone who's completely on one side. Their information is limited to only what's given to those on that one side.
Let me guess, you probably think Tulsi Gabbard was actually a "Russian asset," right?

1. Not enough republicans liked any of the other candidates.
2. Declared war? We haven't had a congress to declare war since WW2.
3. Wrong. Trumps lies are usually filled with just enough truth, to make it all seem true.
4.

 

[Quag]

His lies are very obvious but he convinces the cult to twist his words and pretend it isnt a lie such as the OBVIOUS lie that Mexico would pay for the wall
Cultists on here say he never claimed they would pay for all of it (a lie) and that Mexico did help pay for it (also a lie)

They cant admit a guy who had lied his whole life is still lying

Trump lies as often as he breathes and is is very very very obvious to anyone who doesn't drink the Kool-ade

 

[prometeus]

It's hard to have a conversation with someone who's completely on one side. Their information is limited to only what's given to those on that one side.
Let me guess, you probably think Tulsi Gabbard was actually a "Russian asset," right?

Is that why you make stupid guesses?

1. Not enough republicans liked any of the other candidates.

So they let the imbeciles decide eh? Clever strategy.

2. Declared war?

You called her a warmonger.

3. Wrong. Trumps lies are usually filled with just enough truth, to make it all seem true.

Only to his low intellect and uneducated ass kissers.

 

[smb3802]

These days conservatism has become whatever dear leader Trump says.