• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

What is socialism?

TJS0110

Active member
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
327
Reaction score
0
Location
Missouri
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I agree, we just need to make sure that we don't help leaches. We also need to make sure we DO help those who need it.
 

Kelzie

The Almighty
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
13,534
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Denver, CO
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
jamesrage said:
I appologize, I did not read the whole thread.
I knew people who actually needed welfare and foodstamps and I knew alot more people who only abused welfare and foodstamps.
I remember this woman was complaining that the people at her child's school kept asking when she was going to get a job.She had the audacity to state that
welfare gives her the opportunity to not have to work and that it was her right to work.I also knew other women actually had more children just so they can get more money.
I beleave welfare should only be a helping hand and not a hand out.Hand outs only create dependancy.
I did not have this experience at the welfare office at all. My mom had to work hard to get food stamps. Like I said, she had to check in often. I find it hard to believe that they only monitered her.

Regardless, welfare is an invaluable part of our society. The solution would be to fix it, not to get rid of it because some people abuse it.
 

128shot

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Messages
1,258
Reaction score
31
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
that all depends on who you ask.


There is no why you're going to win public support to raise taxes, we're sick of them as it is.
 

Kelzie

The Almighty
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
13,534
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Denver, CO
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
128shot said:
that all depends on who you ask.


There is no why you're going to win public support to raise taxes, we're sick of them as it is.
Who mentioned raising taxes?
 

128shot

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Messages
1,258
Reaction score
31
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Do believe you said you'd pay more taxes...

anyway. I'd like to lower taxes if this became a more effective thing..
 

Kelzie

The Almighty
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
13,534
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Denver, CO
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
128shot said:
Do believe you said you'd pay more taxes...

anyway. I'd like to lower taxes if this became a more effective thing..
I would. But I don't think everyone else would want to.
 

drinch

New member
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Messages
13
Reaction score
0
Location
kiev Ua
Actually, there is no difference what kind of economy in certain country, whatever it is a socialism or capitalism. If there is a country with low developed economy and nation is not educated well enough (like Russia in early 20 century) - life in this country is going to be awful.
Yes, we can say that Stalin was a terrible tyrant, but regular soviet people, who informed the police that their neighbor is German spy, just because he expected to occupy his room in communal apartment, as well as police officer who could believe any crazy theory and have no other interrogation methods but torture was worst than even two Stalins. Funny thing, it did not go better after decline of communism.
However European states in modern times could provide civilized model of socialism.
So, it?s not a question of economy, but it in a question of a nation.
 

IValueFreedom

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2005
Messages
168
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Liberal
jamesrage said:
I also knew other women actually had more children just so they can get more money.
That's a valid point.

This a common problem of TANF. But just because the law has a giant loophole in it doesn't mean that the entire process should be thrown out.
 

128shot

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Messages
1,258
Reaction score
31
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
IValueFreedom said:
That's a valid point.

This a common problem of TANF. But just because the law has a giant loophole in it doesn't mean that the entire process should be thrown out.

Been thinking about this for a little bit...

Who says a different process wouldn't work much better?
 

Kelzie

The Almighty
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
13,534
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Denver, CO
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
128shot said:
Been thinking about this for a little bit...

Who says a different process wouldn't work much better?
And what process would you suggest?
 

128shot

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Messages
1,258
Reaction score
31
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I dunno, charity maybe?
 

Kelzie

The Almighty
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
13,534
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Denver, CO
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
128shot said:
I dunno, charity maybe?
:rofl No. You have an unrealistically high expectation of people. They complain about paying taxes now. What makes you think they'll pay it when it's optional?
 

128shot

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Messages
1,258
Reaction score
31
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
because rich men love tax breaks.
 

Kelzie

The Almighty
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
13,534
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Denver, CO
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
128shot said:
because rich men love tax breaks.
And so they'll celebrate theit tax break by giving money to the needy? No they'll invest it to make more money for themselves. Don't get me wrong, there are rich people who give to charity. But they usually don't have a problem with taxes either.
 

Bestial_Pagan

Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2005
Messages
61
Reaction score
0
Location
Scandinavia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Private
shortly said socialism is equal poorness to everyone (except party members)
 

128shot

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Messages
1,258
Reaction score
31
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Umm, rich men give to charity because of tax breaks they recieve by doing so.

Lets not forget the money collected by churches and other religious establishments...
 

jamesrage

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
34,498
Reaction score
16,290
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
And so they'll celebrate theit tax break by giving money to the needy? No they'll invest it to make more money for themselves. Don't get me wrong, there are rich people who give to charity. But they usually don't have a problem with taxes either.
Raising taxes on the rich would only screw us.They would only pass down the cost of more taxes down to us the consumer by raising the price of their products.Or in a worst case scenario, just leave the country and set up shop in another country and sell us "cheap" imports.
 

Kelzie

The Almighty
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
13,534
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Denver, CO
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
jamesrage said:
Raising taxes on the rich would only screw us.They would only pass down the cost of more taxes down to us the consumer by raising the price of their products.Or in a worst case scenario, just leave the country and set up shop in another country and sell us "cheap" imports.
The "trickle down" theory? I thought everyone knew that doesn't work.
 

Kelzie

The Almighty
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
13,534
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Denver, CO
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
128shot said:
Umm, rich men give to charity because of tax breaks they recieve by doing so.

Lets not forget the money collected by churches and other religious establishments...
If we were able to pay for welfare, etc with charities and private donations, we would be doing so already. You seem to be saying that we can get rid of taxes, and still afford these organizations because people will be so grateful to get rid of taxes, that they will all rush to donate. I'm saying you're delusional.

If you meant something else, I apologize.
 

128shot

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2005
Messages
1,258
Reaction score
31
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
We donate as it is, all the time. Many many people donate money at church, thats a huge rake in.

Lets not forget the millions given by the rich for tax breaks.

The reason why we are not doing so is so politicans can gain votes.
 

Kelzie

The Almighty
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
13,534
Reaction score
1,000
Location
Denver, CO
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
128shot said:
We donate as it is, all the time. Many many people donate money at church, thats a huge rake in.

Lets not forget the millions given by the rich for tax breaks.

The reason why we are not doing so is so politicans can gain votes.
I tell you what. You find me some numbers on how much charities and private donations rake in a year, and then find the total costs of ALL the different services our government provides, and see if they are anywhere close. I highly doubt it.
 
A

Androvski

ncallaway said:
I hear a lot coming from capitalists about what socialism is. I hear a lot about Stalin, and tyrannical communist states. From the little bit I've gathered that's not what socialism actually is about. So I ask you socialists, what is socialism?

I don't wanna bunch of replies from self-proclaimed capitalists talking about all the bad things about socialism. I let capitalists describe capitalism to me, so it seems only fair that socialists should define socialism.

Oh, and I know I should read Marx. I plan to later this summer. If there are any other good authors out there that I should know about, let me know. For the capitalists, I do want to know some good authors in favor of capitalism. So any suggested reading is cool to post.

Thanks all.
The Soviet union had the potential to be a perfect example of a socialist state.When Stalin came to power any chance of that ended.
Lenin was a political genius and had he lived longer Iam certain that true socialism would have succeeded in Russia and would have possibly encouraged other countries to"follow in it's footsteps"
Stalin turned the Soviet union into a "state capitalist system",where those in charge had everything and the masses had nothing.Unfortunately,when many consider socialism,it is actually Stalinism they are referring to.
I can't really think of any country where socialism as Marx intended it to be has existed!
 

jamesrage

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
34,498
Reaction score
16,290
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Originally Posted by Kelzie
The "trickle down" theory? I thought everyone knew that doesn't work.
Stores do it all the time when it comes to shoplifting,paas the cost to consumer to make up losses.
 
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
1,011
Reaction score
306
Location
Geelong, Australia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Androvski said:
The Soviet union had the potential to be a perfect example of a socialist state.When Stalin came to power any chance of that ended.
Lenin was a political genius and had he lived longer Iam certain that true socialism would have succeeded in Russia and would have possibly encouraged other countries to"follow in it's footsteps"
Stalin turned the Soviet union into a "state capitalist system",where those in charge had everything and the masses had nothing.Unfortunately,when many consider socialism,it is actually Stalinism they are referring to.
I can't really think of any country where socialism as Marx intended it to be has existed!

Yet another Lenin apologist. It was Lenin that created the predecesor to the KGB. Yeah he was a great guy wasn't he?

Red rose tinted view of Lenin?

If anything Marxism can be achieved in a capitalist system, by allowing workers to invest in their own companies and share the company profits. I think the greatest folly was to think that capitalism, can only be opposed by nationalising any business or corporation. That misses the point, because at the end of workers' master has only changed, and the wage struture, not the actual way in which the workers interact with the company.
 
Top Bottom