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What is more important to you?

What is more important to you?

  • Protection of the USA from terrorist attacks.

    Votes: 4 18.2%
  • Protection of our Civil Rights

    Votes: 18 81.8%

  • Total voters
    22
steen said:
So you would rather live your life as the fat but always chained -up dog of my example. No way would I live like that, chained and controlled by the authorities; that seems more a conservative goal.

I live in the greatest country in the world and am not a chained up dog...How quickly you liberals forget 9/11/01..I can remember on 9/12/01 I thought we would have and terrorist attack every month........Well we haven't had any attacks.........I can give up a few civil liberties if it keeps this country safe.......

Thank you President Bush and Secretary Ashcroft and a special thanks for the PA which the dems are trying to destroy now...........
 
Navy Pride said:
I think the situation today is a teeny bit different then it was in the day of Patrick Henry where a well placed WOMD could kill millions don't you......

And invading Iraq takes care of that threat...how? You keep on bringing up 9/11, but guess what. The government could have easily prevented it from happening.
They basically welcomed it. I can't say the exact reason for why no jets intercepted those planes before they crashed into NY and DC and no one has given a good reason. At worst it was allowed and at best it was utmost ineptness by the government. You go ahead and rip up the Constitution all you want, the terrorists will find a way around whatever "Patriot" Acts are passed. That is the sad fact. You can't fight a religious ideology with weapons and I'd love to go on, but I have things to do.
 
Why do people think the two are incompatible? We can do both.

What "civil rights" did the patriot act abrogate?
 
This question assumes civil rights are absolute. The Constituion is not a suicide pact and it was never intended to be. We have the right to bear arms but not nuclear ones. We have the right to free speech but libel, slander and shouting bomb on an airplane are forbidden. Are these infringments on our civil liberties?
 
Navy Pride said:
Civil rights don't mean squat if your dead........Think about it.....

Whats a life worth living if you have little/no rights? Its like a prison.

Also I can't say I believe "terrorists" are as much of a threat our politicians would like us to believe.
 
Navy Pride said:
Well I don't know what country your from but the USA is not a police state by any stretch of the imagination.....


Yes VOR I am from the USA and the USA is headed towards being a police state if people are willing to give up their civil liberties to be safe.
 
Navy Pride said:
I think the situation today is a teeny bit different then it was in the day of Patrick Henry where a well placed WOMD could kill millions don't you......

Even if "times are different", his words still ring true.

Seriously? I am NOT worried about WMDs. We've got them right here in the U.S.....as a matter of fact, we had to halt a gate reconstruction project over at Pope AFB last year because they started digging and they found cannisters of mustard gas. Our nation has the most nuclear capacity of any other in the world. So what exactly are we worried about? We've had almost as many soldiers die in Iraq as those that died on 9/11.....and for what?

Navy Pride said:
I live in the greatest country in the world and am not a chained up dog...How quickly you liberals forget 9/11/01..I can remember on 9/12/01 I thought we would have and terrorist attack every month........Well we haven't had any attacks.........I can give up a few civil liberties if it keeps this country safe.......

Thank you President Bush and Secretary Ashcroft and a special thanks for the PA which the dems are trying to destroy now...........

No one's forgotten 9/11.....because no one will let us. It was horrible, it was a tragedy, but we have got to move on. 9/11 will never be completely forgotten....it's one of those instances like when Kennedy was shot...do you remember where you were?......That sort of thing. I still remember quite vividly where I was, what I was doing.....and being scared out of my mind because I was swearing into the Delayed Entry Program for the Air Force three days later.

But we have terroristic activities right here at home. Have you forgotten Oklahoma City, Timothy McVeigh, and 167 men, women, and children that died April 19, 1995? Have you forgotten the WTC bombing on February 26, 1993? How about Teddy Kaczynski? Or David Koresh? Jeffrey Dahmer?

Sure, none of those people, nor none of those events, were on the same scale as 9/11. That's not my point. My point is, we as a nation need to move on. We can never wipe out terrorism, and we can't keep our people living in a constant state of fear.

Navy Pride said:
Civil rights don't mean squat if your dead........Think about it.....

Perhaps not, but I'd rather live freely and happily for as long as I can. If you're dead, you're dead, and NOTHING matters, including.....stopping the big bad terrorists! I mean, come on.....the little color coded threat advisory wasn't even created until after 9/11....you can't tell me we didn't have ANY threats of terrorist activity before that. It's a scare tactic, just one of many little things the government does to keep us as good and obedient little citizens, and we shouldn't continue to buy into it!
 
Gilluin said:
Yes VOR I am from the USA and the USA is headed towards being a police state if people are willing to give up their civil liberties to be safe.

One could say even though we are more overly-protected from these "terrorists" we are far less safe from the state.
 
I like the hungry wolf analogy.

Do you really think we are such cowards, Navy Pride? Do you really think we are gonna go cry to mommy because we got a cut? DO YOU THINK WE WILL SURRENDER THAT WHICH IS OUR BIRTH RIGHT BECAUSE A FEW PRIMITIVES TOOK THE LIVES OF SOME OF OUR LOVED ONES?

Giving up our civil rights and protecting our country are not mutually exclusive of each other. I'll not surrender to the terrorists by surrendering liberty, freedom, or my views. And I will not abide leaders who think themselves above the laws of the land...no mater who's blessing they think they have.
 
Navy's the one who's willing to surrender the American way because of terrorists and give them exactly what they want. If anyone's aiding and abetting the enemy, it's definitely him.
 
Stace said:
No one's forgotten 9/11.....because no one will let us.

Some of us won't forget September 11th, the rest chase after the smallest distraction like a butterfly.

Stace said:
But we have terroristic activities right here at home. Have you forgotten Oklahoma City, Timothy McVeigh, and 167 men, women, and children that died April 19, 1995?

Nope, haven't forgotten that. Nor have I forgotten the peculiar behavior of the Feds on that and the persistent rumors of possible Iraqi (Hussein) collusion.

Stace said:
Have you forgotten the WTC bombing on February 26, 1993?

No, of course not. If the president at the time had taken terrorism as seriously as zippers, there's a fair chance that 3000 people wouldn't have died 8 1/2 years later.

Stace said:
How about Teddy Kaczynski?

No differnt that the Son of Sam, an isolated lunatic. Completely unavoidable and a banana in your apple tree.

Stace said:
Or David Koresh?

Yeah. Ole Dave. An American excercising his First Amendment freedom of religion. We should never forget that Koresh and his followers were murdered by the ATF.

Stace said:
Jeffrey Dahmer?

See my remarks on Teddy.

Stace said:
Sure, none of those people, nor none of those events, were on the same scale as 9/11. That's not my point. My point is, we as a nation need to move on. We can never wipe out terrorism, and we can't keep our people living in a constant state of fear.

True enough. But politicians make their careers on scaring the crap out of voters. That ain't gonna change until both major parties are booted out of office. Which is a way of saying that it won't change, ever.
 
Navy Pride said:
I can give up a few civil liberties if it keeps this country safe....

And he who's willing to give up a little liberty for a little security ends up with neither.

So why'd the chief get banned?
 
Navy Pride said:
Of course he is not going to mention it..........Unlike Liberals we try and keep classified info secret.......

Yeah, sure you conservatives do! Valerie Plame!
 
The current administration doesn't even know who the enemy is. They think Americans are the enemy. That is why they want to rule like a dictator and not be accountable or have oversight. That is why our government has three branches. The Judicial and legislative branches are supposed to oversee the executive branch. Bush and his puppeteers don't trust those particular Americans though so they can't be bothered to use that part of the government for it's intended purposes.
 
Columbusite said:
I can't say the exact reason for why no jets intercepted those planes before they crashed into NY and DC and no one has given a good reason. At worst it was allowed and at best it was utmost ineptness by the government.

What would you have the government do? Shoot the planes down and kill the innocent passengers on board? I'm too young to remember the last time a plane was hijacked or even know if one has been hijacked before, but it seems to me that if it had happened before they would have been used to ransom the passengers not as vehicles of suicide destruction.
 
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