What Is Israel's Real Goal?

[G-Man]

Who said anything about religion? I am an agnostic,myself.

Your dogmatism lies in the fact that you parrot without understanding and display prejudice with neither knowlege nor reason.

Prejudice to whom? I have no reason to favour either group in the ME, religion is a non-starter to me.
I look at the facts and issues and reach a position.

I take it the 'prejudice' line is just another take on the 'you think Israel is in the wrong and are therefore 'antisemitic' line.
You can change the wording but I think your position is clear to all.

 

[Gardener]

Prejudice to whom? I have no reason to favour either group in the ME, religion is a non-starter to me.
I look at the facts and issues and reach a position.

I take it the 'prejudice' line is just another take on the 'you think Israel is in the wrong and are therefore 'antisemitic' line.
You can change the wording but I think your position is clear to all.

Obviously you have no reason, as you display no reason whatsoever in anything you say. If you were capable of reason, you would look at that ridiculous statement about Israel being involved in genocide and react with knowlege instead of ignorant support. If you were interested in facts you would not be pursuing a lie as you are.

Once again in case you missed it. The Palestinian population is among the fastest growing in the world. This quite definitely contradicts the statement that Israel is engaged in genocide. Only a person who is extrordinarily unintelligent or extrordinarily biased would treat such an absurd statement with anything but contempt.

 

[Vader]

There you go Tashah!

Thank you for admitting that you agree with Tasha's assesment.

 

[AcePylut]

Here's the link from the website provided,

"IMEMC is a media center developed in collaboration between Palestinian and International journalists to provide independent English language media coverage of Israel-Palestine. IMEMC provides fair and comprehensive coverage of events and developments in Israel-Palestine."

I believe the first sentence. And because I believe the first sentence, I can not believe the second sentence.

The refusal of Hizballah to abide by UN Reslutions, while Israel has... has proven that anything prefaced with "Palestine" or "Hizballah" is a lie.


When they start following the agreements they make, then perhaps I'll change my mind.

 

[Makhno]

This quite definitely contradicts the statement that Israel is engaged in genocide.

Hmm, so why do Israel permit illegal settelment?* Why do they cut off funds (among other things)? Who do they put Palestinian civilians under constant terror and intimidation from IDF forces? Like they have done for the past 40 years, despite - like I have already pointed out - the fact that Israel has been practically immune from attack coming from within the OT? Why don't they build the so-called "security wall" along the border?

Surely this goes beond being "just security"?

*I mean if the threat of suicide bombings was so high, it would be a tad stupid to build settelments near where all these mad Arabs come from. You think?

Isarel's aim is, and has been expansion, and preferably the removal of the population also. Therefore it is not unfair to call their policy "genocide", or "ethnic cleansing".

 

[G-Man]

Obviously you have no reason, as you display no reason whatsoever in anything you say. If you were capable of reason, you would look at that ridiculous statement about Israel being involved in genocide and react with knowlege instead of ignorant support. If you were interested in facts you would not be pursuing a lie as you are.

I believed he was referring to genocide in the OT - an issue you have not countered or argued against. Drop the 'antisemitic' garbage and argue your viewpoint.

Its a fact people have been removed from their homes, its a fact people have been killed because they wouldn't leave. Its a lie by you to suggest this hasn't happened.

Once again in case you missed it. The Palestinian population is among the fastest growing in the world. This quite definitely contradicts the statement that Israel is engaged in genocide. Only a person who is extrordinarily unintelligent or extrordinarily biased would treat such an absurd statement with anything but contempt.

This isn't the only issue on the thread and its not the one that you replied to when sprouting all your 'antisemitic' garbage.

And logic would tell you that someone/somegroup can engage in genocide activity but fail. Perhaps the Palestines are breeding quicker than the Israelis can kill them. That wouldn't mean the Israelis aren't trying to kill them all (and before you sprout off more 'antisemitic' garbage thats something I don't believe the case to be).

Maybe you should keep your unintelligent claims to yourself in the future.

 

[Gardener]

I believed he was referring to genocide in the OT - an issue you have not countered or argued against. Drop the 'antisemitic' garbage and argue your viewpoint.

Its a fact people have been removed from their homes, its a fact people have been killed because they wouldn't leave. Its a lie by you to suggest this hasn't happened.



This isn't the only issue on the thread and its not the one that you replied to when sprouting all your 'antisemitic' garbage.

And logic would tell you that someone/somegroup can engage in genocide activity but fail. Perhaps the Palestines are breeding quicker than the Israelis can kill them. That wouldn't mean the Israelis aren't trying to kill them all (and before you sprout off more 'antisemitic' garbage thats something I don't believe the case to be).

Maybe you should keep your unintelligent claims to yourself in the future.

Could you actually be this mind-numbingly ignorant of the meaning of the term genocide?

I really don't think so. I realize educational levels have dropped in this country substantially since I was a kid, but I think you are indulging in this intentionally.


What utterly disgusting drivel.

 

[Synch]

He attacked the Isreali state not jews as a whole. Of course theres jews involved in the Isreali state but there actions should not be immune from criticism no matter how inaccurate. If he attacked jews per say that would be a different kettle of fish.

So you claim you believe he implies that Arabic Israelis are a part of the cause of the alleged genocide of the Palestinian Arabs? In Israel there are only two major ethnic groups, Arabs and Jews, are you denying his castigation was only on Jewish Israelis, and was on Israel as a whole where all individuals who's collective actions are responsible for his claim of genocide, the collective including Arabic Israelis? You believe he's implying Arabic-Israelis are committing genocide on their own kin?

Now you're either lying to spread hate or suffering from extreme mental deficiency.

 

[G-Man]

Could you actually be this mind-numbingly ignorant of the meaning of the term genocide?

I really don't think so. I realize educational levels have dropped in this country substantially since I was a kid, but I think you are indulging in this intentionally.


What utterly disgusting drivel.

Why don't you address some of the issues on the thread instead of continuing with the personal slander?

Could it be that you've exhausted and over-used the 'antisemitic' arguement so now use personal attacks to derail the thread?

There certainly is drivel but we all know where it is coming from.

Address some of the points on the thread and I'll debate back - otherwise I bore of your pointless comments - I think we all know your agenda but hopefully you prove otherwise.

 

[Gardener]

Why don't you address some of the issues on the thread instead of continuing with the personal slander?

Could it be that you've exhausted and over-used the 'antisemitic' arguement so now use personal attacks to derail the thread?

There certainly is drivel but we all know where it is coming from.

Address some of the points on the thread and I'll debate back - otherwise I bore of your pointless comments - I think we all know your agenda but hopefully you prove otherwise.

My "agenda" is to defend humans against an onslaught of hatred.


You are indulging in hate speech. You are accusing the victims of genocide of commiting genocide where no genocide exists. You are a liar and continue to lie in order to further your sick hatred.

Why should I "debate" with things so low that they lie in order to create such a false impression and do so simply to further their racist agenda?

Go back to Stormfront or Ummah. com if you want your hatred received in a more positive manner. I'm going to call it the way I see it, though, which is disgustingly racist and dishonest.

If YOU had something worth debating you would not be indulging in this dishonest insistance that Jewish people are indulging in "genocide".

 

[Makhno]

My "agenda" is to defend humans against an onslaught of hatred.


You are indulging in hate speech. You are accusing the victims of genocide of commiting genocide where no genocide exists. You are a liar and continue to lie in order to further your sick hatred.

Perhaps "genocide" is too strong a word. "Ethnic cleansing" fits better.

You are a liar and continue to lie in order to further your sick hatred.

Now that we are calling it ethnic cleansing, would you agree that Israel is participating in it?

Or are you just going to continue to childishly ignore the facts and carry on with your petty playground insults?

It seems fairly obvious that ethnic cleansing is what Israel are doing.

 

[Makhno]

So you claim you believe he implies that Arabic Israelis are a part of the cause of the alleged genocide of the Palestinian Arabs? In Israel there are only two major ethnic groups, Arabs and Jews, are you denying his castigation was only on Jewish Israelis, and was on Israel as a whole where all individuals who's collective actions are responsible for his claim of genocide, the collective including Arabic Israelis? You believe he's implying Arabic-Israelis are committing genocide on their own kin?

Now you're either lying to spread hate or suffering from extreme mental deficiency.

First of all this has nothing to do with "spreading hate". I have given reasons as to how Israel are commiting genocide/ethnic cleasing, evidence that has been ignored so far.

The likes of Gardner have learned to tailor their rhetoric in such a way as to capitalize on this turnspeak technique. Anyone who does not follow their largely totalitarian and anti-democratic, largely racist ideology (including many Jews themselves) is an "anti-semite".

As for the Israel-Arabs, during the second Intifada many Arabs fought with Israel (mostly as mercenaries).

 

[Gardener]

First of all this has nothing to do with "spreading hate". I have given reasons as to how Israel are commiting genocide/ethnic cleasing, evidence that has been ignored so far.

The likes of Gardner have learned to tailor their rhetoric in such a way as to capitalize on this turnspeak technique. Anyone who does not follow their largely totalitarian and anti-democratic, largely racist ideology (including many Jews themselves) is an "anti-semite".

As for the Israel-Arabs, during the second Intifada many Arabs fought with Israel (mostly as mercenaries).

Turnspeak huh? You should know.

You libel a people by making entirely spurious claims, while supporting the agenda of those truly commited to genocide.


What a hateful thing you are.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

Moderator's Warning:

I thought about posting on this thread, but I decided that it was pointless, presently. All the personal attacks and accusations need to cease. If you want to debate Israel's real goal, do it. Stop calling each other names and debate the topic.

 

[G-Man]

My "agenda" is to defend humans against an onslaught of hatred.


You are indulging in hate speech. You are accusing the victims of genocide of commiting genocide where no genocide exists. You are a liar and continue to lie in order to further your sick hatred.

Why should I "debate" with things so low that they lie in order to create such a false impression and do so simply to further their racist agenda?

Go back to Stormfront or Ummah. com if you want your hatred received in a more positive manner. I'm going to call it the way I see it, though, which is disgustingly racist and dishonest.

If YOU had something worth debating you would not be indulging in this dishonest insistance that Jewish people are indulging in "genocide".

Nowhere did I post they were engaging in genocide.

Another pointless hate filled personal slander post from yourself.
No susbstance to anything you have stated, no argument, no debate, no posts, no links just baseless rhetoric.

I think your agenda has been relieved to all and I shall leave you to continue this rubbish in the basement I think.

 

[The face of Jacob]

I have given reasons as to how Israel are commiting genocide/ethnic cleasing, evidence that has been ignored so far.

You gave only reasons for your hate towards Israel, and these reasons are anti-semite reasons. Your hate is based only upon lies and misleading. You didn't bring even one evidence to support your dreams that Israel is making genocide/ethnic cleansing cause it's not happening in reality. 15 Israelis who bring couple of tents to an uninhabited hill in Samaria are not commiting genocide (most of Samaria and Judea are not inhabited actually), but your Islamo-Fascist friends are:

Settler found stabbed to death north of Hebron

Body of 42-year-old Israeli from Bat Ayin settlement found in valley near Palestinian village of Beit Omar in West Bank, north of Hebron; security officials say attack terror-related

Efrat Weiss Latest Update: 02.26.07, 07:10 / Israel News

Erez Levanon, a resident of the Bat Ayin settlement, was murdered Sunday in a valley near the Palestinian village of Beit Omar in the West Bank, north of Hebron. Security officials believe that the murder was terror-related.

Levanon, a 42 year-old father of three was stabbed to death not far from his vehicle. Army forces have launched searches in the area in a bid to locate the perpetrators. Full article inside

Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades: We killed Yakir settler

Senior organization member declares Friday night that his group was behind murder of Yakir resident, whose burnt body was found Thursday in car trunk in Qalqilya area

Ali Waked Published: 07.29.06, 05:24 / Israel News

A Palestinian terror group said on Friday it had kidnapped, killed and burned an Israeli settler in the West Bank.

The al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, an armed wing of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas's Fatah movement, said it had killed the 59-year-old Israeli settler near the West Bank city of Qalqilya. Full article inside

IDF commander: Asheri murdered immediately

Central Command Chief Naveh says kidnappers of teen settler had no intention of holding negotiations for his release, murdered him one hour after kidnapping him

Aviram Zino Published: 06.29.06, 17:09 / Israel News

Central Command Chief Major-General Yair Naveh told a press briefing Thursday that there was no attempt made at negotiations by the Palestinian kidnappers of Eliyahu Asheri, who proceeded to execute the teenager one hour after kidnapping him. Full article inside

Palestinian man murdered child

Anwar Ahdush carefully planned murder, lured eight year-old Lipaz Himi to stairwell where he raped, murdered her. Victim's mother: My girl was raped and murdered on Independence Day only because she is Jewish

Efrat Weiss Latest Update: 05.28.06, 19:55 / Israel News

Cleared for publication: Lipaz Himi, the eight year-old girl whose body was found several weeks ago in a Beit Shemesh market, was raped and murdered by a Palestinian, the police investigation revealed. Full article inside

You are a serial blood libel producer. And you and your blood libels are no different than the anti-semites who spread this kind of blood libels in your country hundreds of years ago.

It won't help. Nobody can debate with anti-semites and anti-semites will never change their views. There are anti-semites who believe that Jews have horns on their heads and if a Jew will come to them and will show them that he ain't got horns on his head then the anti-semites will answer: "That's because you take off your horns from your head at Mondays".

One thing I do agree and that there is a genocide. A genocide that is sone by Arabs themselves towards their brothers:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/17475-new-pal-murder-bombing-6.html#post483315

Annihiliation Of Jews On Judgment Day

Pure Jew Hate On Palestinian AUTHORITY TV

PA Sermon: Muhammad Warned of the Inherent Evil of Jews

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9BOPR3yhY4&eurl=[/youtube]

 

[Makhno]

You gave only reasons for your hate towards Israel, and these reasons are anti-semite reasons. Your hate is based only upon lies and misleading. You didn't bring even one evidence to support your dreams that Israel is making genocide/ethnic cleansing cause it's not happening in reality.

Israel have persued expansionist policies for the entire occupation. Again, I stress that for the most part of the occupation Istrael has been immune from attacks coming from within the OT. Why then did they continue with the kidnappings, tortue and murder?

Today we are always reminded that the "security wall" is meant to protect Israel . . . surely it would be a bit foolish then to build settelments where all these people who "wish the destruction of Israel" live?

Also - what about the imprisonment without trial? The cutting off of badly needed funds? The cutting of of water?:roll:

Expansion has obviously been the goal of this occupation . . . with the continued annexation of Palestinian land, what has changed? Do you really expect there to be peace while this carries on?

 

[The face of Jacob]

Istrael has been immune from attacks coming from within the OT.

Immune?

This is an article from Yediot Achronot from 21.2.07, it talks about a suicide bomber who was cought last week in Israel. The end of this article says that in 2006 there were 5 suicide attacks - all of them by the Islamic Jihad and 279 potential suicide bombers have been cought - a raise of 80% compared with 2005. One month ago there was a suicide attack in Eilat, and 3 Israelis were killed, in case you didn't hear about it. And what about the Qassam rockets that are being launched from the territory that we left 18 months ago?

Why then did they continue with the kidnappings, tortue and murder?

You ask me why the Palestinians continue with the kidnappings, torture and murder? Am I a Palestinian that you asking me this? Ask the Palestinians themselves!

Today we are always reminded that the "security wall" is meant to protect Israel . . . surely it would be a bit foolish then to build settelments where all these people who "wish the destruction of Israel" live?

Couple of Israelis with tents on an odd hill in Samaria isn't consider to be called "a settlement". There are large settlements near the green line which were built 40 years ago (by the Israeli left wing), these settlements won't be evacuated and the leaders of Israel both from Likud and both from the Laibor have said that. They are located there in order to protect Tel Aviv arrea. Cause if they weren't there then the Arabinians would launched their rockets from there to Tel Aviv, and to tell the truth, they are already do it:

Watch this page

Maybe you want that Israel will evacuate all these settelments for the Arabinians to launch their rockets in an easy way at Tel Aviv?

And anyway, all Israel is consider to be one big settelment by the eyes of our enemies and by the eyes of you. You think that Tel Aviv isn't consider to be a settelment according to our enemies? (By the way, when I talk about our enemies I include you with them).

Also - what about the imprisonment without trial?

There's no such thing as "imprisonment without trial", it's bullshit. The likes of you have invented it. What there is is 6 month detention untill a trial. This is because every week we catch dozens of wanted terrorists and we don't have the ability to judge them all in a short time but all of them will be trialed. I can promise you that we treat these terror wanted in much better way than Arab countries treat their citizens. By the way, I think that every convicted terrorist should be executed and not to let him eat food or to learn in Israeli Open University.

The cutting off of badly needed funds?

:rofl

Israel offers medicines, PA demands cash

Foreign minister meets with US assistant secretary of state, tells him Israel sought to aid Palestinians with medications worth NIS 50 million but was turned down

Ronny Sofer Published: 06.07.06, 22:54 / Israel News

Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni on Wednesday updated US Assistant Secretary of State David Welch that the Palestinians refused to receive aid in medications from Israel.

Livni told Welch that Israel sought to transfer to the Palestinian Authority medications worth NIS 50 million (about USD 11 million), but the Palestinians asked that the sum be delivered in cash from their tax money. Full article inside

Former Arafat aide: He purchased arms with Israeli money

Former PA security funds manager Fuad Shubaki says during interrogation that PA funded terrorist cells that operated against Israel; also revealed: Iranian Revolutionary Guard and Hizbullah coordinated Karine A arms ship with senior PA senior

Efrat Weiss Published: 05.17.06, 13:17 / Israel News

Former PA chairman Yasser Arafat purchased arms worth millions of dollars transferred to the PA by Israel and the international community, an interrogation of a PA security funds manager, Fuad Shubaki, has found.

Shubaki was taken for questioning by the Shin Bet on March 14 after being apprehended in an IDF operation in the Jericho prison, where he was imprisoned under international supervision since May 2002. Full article inside

I guess the Arabinians prefer to smuggle ammunition rather than to carry for their people:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/15080-palestinian-weaponry-smuggling.html

The cutting of of water?:roll:

That's another stupid blood libel. Nobody cutts their water. The sad truth is that the Arabinians polluted so much their aquifer. But I am not sad about it. You know why? Because they are our enemies, and they opened a war on us, and I'm happy when our enemies are suffering. I hope they will continue to suffer untill they will vanish. G-d punishes the enemies of Israel:

And the LORD thy God will put all these curses upon thine enemies, and on them that hate thee, that persecuted thee.

And the LORD will take away from thee all sickness; and He will put none of the evil diseases of Egypt, which thou knowest, upon thee, but will lay them upon all them that hate thee.

Expansion has obviously been the goal of this occupation . . . with the continued annexation of Palestinian land, what has changed? Do you really expect there to be peace while this carries on?

When our enemies (and you inside of them) are talking about peace - they are talking about the complete destruction of Israel.

Do you know when there will be finally peace?

When Israel will do to Gaza the same thing that America did to Heroshima. Peace will be when the enemies of Israel will be destroyed. Complitely. And then there will be peace. A worldwide one.

And anyway, taking a land and tearing it up and deviding it between a nation and a nation that doesn't exist is not a way for peace. How would you feel if someone will give Merseyside and Newcastle to a nation that doesn't exist?

 

[Vader]

Israel have persued expansionist policies for the entire occupation. Again, I stress that for the most part of the occupation Istrael has been immune from attacks coming from within the OT. Why then did they continue with the kidnappings, tortue and murder?

Today we are always reminded that the "security wall" is meant to protect Israel . . . surely it would be a bit foolish then to build settelments where all these people who "wish the destruction of Israel" live?

Also - what about the imprisonment without trial? The cutting off of badly needed funds? The cutting of of water?:roll:

Expansion has obviously been the goal of this occupation . . . with the continued annexation of Palestinian land, what has changed? Do you really expect there to be peace while this carries on?

Israel's goal is survival PERIOD. To say otherwise is to show support for radicalist islamic teachings.

Israel has the right to exist and there arabs need to accept this fact and move on.

If the arabs cannot accept Israel's right to exist, then the problem is CLEARLY NOT WITH ISRAEL.

 

[MSgt]

What is their main goal? Peace through settlement? Or peace by doing what they've been doing for the last 40 years? By genocide of the Palestinian people.

Israel's goal is survival and your goal is to deceive and lie. There's not much beyond that. Perhaps the most pathetic of anti-Semites is the one that can witness history's true genocides and still desperately seek a way to paint Israelis with the same color (and let's not pretend that it isn't because they are simply jews). Germans are especially fond of this as they cling to anything that may show an Israeli sin. You are flirting with Rule 18 with such a hate message. If Muslims are to be protected from people that wish to portray the Middle East (as opposed to the countless zealot monsters that drive the movement) on a mission to annihilate the world through terrorism, then Islraelis are to be equally protected.


If Israel's goal was conquest then half of the Middle East would be progressive and under an Israeli flag by now. Furthermore, if America's goal was to conduct such activity along side Israel, the entire Middle East would be better off for it and under an American flag.

However, this is not the case. The Middle East is almost entirely under an Islamic banner and failing as it blames foreign devils for what its culture prescribed while Israel sits in a patch of earth listening to Arabs voice their hatreds and Persians voice on their utter destruction as terrorist organizations surround it.

What's funny here is how Israel has managed to defend itself against the entire region time and again, shown restraint while doing it, and still the vast majority of the region claims the victim status as it's attacks have been constantly smacked away. Perhaps the deepest sentiment towards the "Zionist occupation" isn't religious bigotry. Maybe it's just embarrassment.

 

[EAGLE1]

Ok Makhno. I think the term genocide is actually incorrect in this case. The reason is that the Jews would much rather not have to kill them as its far too expensive. Its always been much more acceptable to world opinion to arrange their 'transfer' through the crowding out of the Palestinians. Trouble is its been increasingly hard over the years to realise the dream of Eretz Israel due to Palestinian violence and the the latest wars against the neighbours. Its even got to a point where they've built the wall. This wall is a serious setback for Israel as it gives a de facto definition of their borders which theyve been loathe to do. After all, those settlements will be pretty isolated beyond this wall.

However, what Im curious about is all this talk about how Israelis have always been so 'restrained'. Its restrained about this and restrained over that. Is this an accurate depiction? Have Israeli leaders even agreed with this assessment over the years? For example, I found these quotes from Moshe Dayan on how Israel ended up with the Golan Heights. I must say it doesnt sound very 'restrained';
"It would happen like this: We would send a tractor to plow someplace of no value, in the demilitarized zone, knowing ahead of time that the Syrians would begin to shoot. If they did not start shooting, we would tell the tractor to keep going forward, until the Syrians in the end would get nervous and start shooting. And then we would start firing artillery, and later also the airforce, and this was the way it was. I did this, and Laskov and Tzur [two previous commanders-in-chief] did it. Yitzhak Rabin did it when he was there, but it seems to me that it was Dado, more than anyone else, who enjoyed these games."
"They suffered a lot because of the Syrians. Look, as I said before, they lived in the kibbutzim, they farmed, raised children, lived and wanted to live there. The Syrians opposite them were soldiers who shot at them and they certainly did not like this. But I can tell you in absolute certainly: the delegation that came to convince Eshkol to attack the Heights did not think about these things. It thought about the land on the Heights. Listen, I am also a farmer. I'm from Nahalal, not from Tel Aviv, and I recognize this. I saw them, and I talked to them. They did not even try to hide their greed for that soil. That's what guided them."
So I suppose that with that you could infer that Israel's goal has always been expansion at the expense of their neighbours.
But of course its all different nowadays so that makes it alright and I also suppose we should be grateful that the Israelis havent nuked their enemies or put them into gas chambers as they could do, at any time.

 

[Red_Dave]

So you claim you believe he implies that Arabic Israelis are a part of the cause of the alleged genocide of the Palestinian Arabs? In Israel there are only two major ethnic groups, Arabs and Jews, are you denying his castigation was only on Jewish Israelis, and was on Israel as a whole where all individuals who's collective actions are responsible for his claim of genocide, the collective including Arabic Israelis? You believe he's implying Arabic-Israelis are committing genocide on their own kin?

Now you're either lying to spread hate or suffering from extreme mental deficiency.

Again that would mean criticiseing the Jewish Isrealis concerned. Not Jewish Isrealis themselves. This really isnt that hard to understand. Keep trying

 

[Red_Dave]

Israel's goal is survival PERIOD. To say otherwise is to show support for radicalist islamic teachings.

Israel has the right to exist and there arabs need to accept this fact and move on.

If the arabs cannot accept Israel's right to exist, then the problem is CLEARLY NOT WITH ISRAEL.

Surely thats a problem on *both* sides though? The isrealis involved in the destruction of palestinian olive groves obviously have some issue with the right of the palestinans to exist as individuals, let alone as a state.

 

[Makhno]

Immune?

For the most part yes.

We still aren't getting any answers as to why Israel carry of with their illegal settelments?

What Israel has been doing and is continuing expansionst policies with the aim of annexing Palestine and bringing it under Israel control. At at least that hs been the goal for the most part.

They can't really do that with the Palestinians there, that's why they imprison without trial, that's why they have and still do force them to go through checkpoints to make simple journeys, that's why they terrorize them, that's why they are currently constructing large prisons in the OT, that's why they destroy their olive groves, and any aotonomy, that's why they have blocked the international consensus for the last 30 years . . . what they're doing is universally called geoncide or at least ethnic cleansing. That's what the supporting evedince points to, there is no lie there. That's why their "security wall" doesn't run along the border, that's why whatever little part

(and let's not pretend that it isn't because they are simply jews).

If I was an anti-semite then I would profess it outwright. Like my thinking of the vast majority of posters such as yourself as deluded or just plain sly wankers who try weally weally hard to make those who do not follow your way of thinking as "anti-semites".

 

[Trajan Octavian Titus]

Thats not true. You are the queen of detailed and precise statements...but why am I not surprised you would fail to mention that half of the total palestinian population left/forced out palestine out of fear for their lives in 1948 and were barred from returning.... That is a decline in the size of the palestinian population in land conquered by israel of 50%...today, there are more palestinians out of palestine than there are in palestine. And they are not allowed to return. But I am sure it was relatively easy for you or your parents madam to immigrate to israel.

And Jews were forced to leave almost the whole of the Middle East and are not allowed to return. Furthermore; the Palestinians were forced to leave out of fear for their lives thanks to their fellow Arabs who attacked Israel unprovoked, those Muslims who stayed now enjoy full Israeli citizenship and equal rights where as Jews who live in the Muslim world are treated as Dhimmi's. Unlike your bullshit claims of genocide against the Arabs who resided in the Mandate of Palestine, the Arabs actually did perpetrate genocide against the Jews IE the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem and his Muslim Waffen SS units in Eastern Europe who participated directly in the Holocaust. Side note: the Grand Mufti is still a national icon in the Palestinian territories and Yasser Arafat claimed him as his personal hero and said he was one of his soldiers.