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What Is Israel's Real Goal?

Makhno

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Israel continue to annex Palestinian land - perhaps the real reason why all these mindless evil Islamo-nazis are fiering rockets into Israel.

Israeli sources reported on Saturday night after midnight that the so-called Supreme Planning Council for settlements in the occupied West Bank, legalized recently what was described as the “largest-ever” illegal settlement construction on lands which belong to residents of Bil'in village, near Ramallah, in the northern part of the West Bank.


The project calls for constructing 42 units containing approximately 1500 apartments for settlers. Itis already in various construction stages, and is taking place in Matityahu East illegal settlement, located in the large ultra-Orthodox settlement of Modi'in Ilit, which was also constructed on lands Israel illegally seized from the Palestinians.



Israeli online daily, Haaretz, reported that resident of Bil'in village and the Israeli Peace Now Movement filed a petition to the Israeli High Court of Justice against the illegal constructions last week.



Last year, the Israeli High Court of Justice ordered a halt on the constructions in the same area following an appeal filed by Peace Now and Bil'in residents. The halt also includes the occupation of the buildings.



The illegal settlement neighborhood is being constructed by two companies registered in Canada; Green Park and Green Mount, two other companies known as Ein Ami and Hefziba, are also taking part in the conduction.



Haaretz added that “The laundering of the buildings' construction allows members of the planning council, who were aware of the illegalities and did nothing to stop them, to avoid criminal charges and suits for damages”.



Also, Michael Sfrad, the attorney representing the petitioners asked for halting the constructions, and said that the planning authorities knew that illegal constructions are taking place but did nothing to stop them.



Sfrad also said that the route of the Annexation Wall in that area was planned in a way that would leave space for new settlement activities on Palestinian lands isolated on the other side of the Wall.



Recently, the Israeli Housing Ministry, issued a request which sough hundreds of Dunams of Palestinian orchards that belongs to the residents of Bil'in in order to expand Modi'in Ilit settlement.



"The takeover of the lands was carried out by a conspiracy involving private developers and Israeli authorities. Thus, criminal companies that stole private Palestinian lands won the protection of the fence - which was intended as a means of security and became a tool for annexation - as well as backing from the planning authorities, whose approval laundered the offenses," Sfard wrote in the petition as published by Haaretz.



High Court Justice Salim Jubran, said that Israel must response to the petition by March 6.



The petition filed by Sfrad stated that the taking over of the land, and the Supreme Planning Council decision is considered an attempt “bury the criminal act and the impaired rights of ownership deep in the earth, and would quickly lead to continued construction of the neighborhood, as if no offense had been committed and there were never any rights of ownership”, Haaretz reported.



Haaretz also said that the Planning Authorities did not attempt to hear the claims of the Palestinian residents who are in position of documents proving their ownership of the land.



Moreover, Haaretz said that Moshe Moskowitz of the so-called Civil Administration Office, which belongs to the Israeli army occupying the West Bank, and is also highest authority in planning and conducting in the West Bank, wrote in September 2004 to the comptroller of Modi'in settlement council and said that "construction authorization for the new project of Matityahu East was doubtless given against the instructions of the existing [master] plan and therefore was not within the licensing authority's power."



But last week, members of the Planning Council, showed interest in “legalizing” the constructions in an attempt to avoid the demolition of dozens of illegal apartments which will also subject them to lawsuits by purchasers.



Although the Council said it had no master plan for expanding Mod'in Ilit, and cited a Jordanian Law, which became the base for an Israeli Law in the West Bank. The law stated that “small communities” do not have to have a master plan for the construction of new neighborhood.



But this concept ignore a basic fact which is that all settlements and outposts are built on lands that were illegal confiscated from the Palestinians by Israel and by settlers groups.

Israel plans to construct 1500 settlement housing units on private Palestinian lands - IMEMC


What is their main goal? Peace through settlement? Or peace by doing what they've been doing for the last 40 years? By genocide of the Palestinian people.
 
What is their main goal? Peace through settlement? Or peace by doing what they've been doing for the last 40 years? By genocide of the Palestinian people.

To consider Israel's actions as "genocide" is so hyperbolic and driven by such irrational hysteria as to render anything you have to say moot. If you had wished to present yourself as intelligent and credible, you could have done so, and in which case some sort of debate could have followed. You chose, instead, to indulge in drivel and so you have set the tone here.

Israel is motivated by the goal of survival.
 
By genocide of the Palestinian people.
The Palestinian population has always increased each consecutive calendar year. This demographic data is easily available.

The snippet above may be a Hate Message violation. Convince me otherwise.
 
The Palestinian population has always increased each consecutive calendar year. This demographic data is easily available.

The snippet above may be a Hate Message violation. Convince me otherwise.

"Hate Message violation"?

Well it at the least an opinion.

However, what would you say was the goal of a occupation of a land where resistance was at a mininum for the most part of its 40 year time span?

With all the kidnappings, torture, murders, the cutting off of funds, of water, etc etc?

The theaft of Palestinian resources that put the people into even greater poverty?

The massive settelment program, settelments that the Palestinians are bared off from? Like the roads on their land that they're not allowed to travel on? (all illegal of course).

The daily intimidation and humiliation of civilians?

Edit: we also know that in 1982 Israel invaded Lebanon because the PLO wanting to talk was a threat to Israel's expansionist policies.


I would have said the goal was the genocide of its inhabitants, in order to expand Israeli territory.
 
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If you think that a plea of opinion protects one from a Hate Message violation at DP, you are very mistaken. I strongly suggest that you read Rule 18 of the Forum Rules.
 
The Palestinian population has always increased each consecutive calendar year. This demographic data is easily available.

Thats not true. You are the queen of detailed and precise statements...but why am I not surprised you would fail to mention that half of the total palestinian population left/forced out palestine out of fear for their lives in 1948 and were barred from returning.... That is a decline in the size of the palestinian population in land conquered by israel of 50%...today, there are more palestinians out of palestine than there are in palestine. And they are not allowed to return. But I am sure it was relatively easy for you or your parents madam to immigrate to israel.

What is their main goal? Peace through settlement? Or peace by doing what they've been doing for the last 40 years? By genocide of the Palestinian people.

I agree that there was a genocide of entire towns in palestine. Like deir yassin, whos inhabitants were massacred, their bodies stuffed down wells.

I wouldnt call it genocide general. More like ethnic cleansing.
 
If you think that a plea of opinion protects one from a Hate Message violation at DP, you are very mistaken. I strongly suggest that you read Rule 18 of the Forum Rules.

18. Hate Messages
Hate messages delivered via threads, posts, signatures, or PM's are forbidden at Debate Politics. The Moderator Team defines a hate message as any willful wording intended to ridicule, debase, degrade, intimidate, or incite violence and/or prejudicial actions against a group of people based on their race, gender, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sexual orientation, or disability. Determined violations of this rule will be subject to incur an immediate revocation of membership.

Could you explain to me how my post counts as a "hate message"?

I mean I have given you evidence on Israel's policy in the OT, and to me it seems fairly obvious that their main goal in their occupation is/was the removal of the population by whatever means deemed necessary.

Besides we see plenty of the "brainwashed Islamo-nazi", "pro-terrorist", "Palestinian scumbags", "anti-semitic", "brainwashed by your liar cleric" and other such racist, defamatory, and libelous rhetoric that goes against your rule, that strangely goes unnoticed. :confused:

Surprised you see a problem with my post.:roll:
 
Surprised you see a problem with my post.

I sometimes feel the same way Makhno,

but remember that what you dont see. I am sure Tashah, CC, and other moderators have their PM dialogue with the 'redneck' 'Islamophobe' Anti-semitic (palestinian semitic) crowd. I have seen CC warn people like this before.

I would agree with you that most of the hate language some a-holes post goes un-condemned however, and that they are much stricter with our posts.

Try to take long breaths, relax a bit (thanks tashah) and try to use their strong criticism to accent and improve your argument. You know youre standing up for justice, as do I. We just have to learn to accomidate ourselves to the standard system they have in these forums.

anyways, keep it up homie.
 
Could you explain to me how my post counts as a "hate message"?

:

It is a lie aimed at demonizing the people who have actually suffered true genocide by attempting to portray them as the perpetrators thereof. It is a baseless accusation, and while it may be a product of a distinct lack of education or the complete inability to reason, it still stands as hate speech since it such an incredible lie and so insulting to anybody who HAS been the victim of genocide. .

You are quite definitely antisemitic. There is no doubt about that.
 
It is a baseless accusation,


You are quite definitely antisemitic. There is no doubt about that.

Professor Gardener,

It is not baseless...infact, it has more base than false branding of makhno as an anti-semite.
 
It is a lie aimed at demonizing the people who have actually suffered true genocide by attempting to portray them as the perpetrators thereof. It is a baseless accusation, and while it may be a product of a distinct lack of education or the complete inability to reason, it still stands as hate speech since it such an incredible lie and so insulting to anybody who HAS been the victim of genocide. .

You are quite definitely antisemitic. There is no doubt about that.

The 'antisemitic' dodge gets tiresome - always a sure sign someone is losing the debate when they resort to it. If you can't argue based on facts and issues label them an 'antisemite' and dodge the topic......:roll:
 
The 'antisemitic' dodge gets tiresome - always a sure sign someone is losing the debate when they resort to it. If you can't argue based on facts and issues label them an 'antisemite' and dodge the topic......:roll:

Typical dogmatic nonsense from you.

You do not question whether or not the idiotic reference to "genocide" is fact based, of course, because that baseless accusation jibes with your own agenda -- an agenda which has nothing to do with actually seeking fact and everything to do with advancing your dogmatic world view.
 
It is a lie aimed at demonizing the people who have actually suffered true genocide by attempting to portray them as the perpetrators thereof. It is a baseless accusation, and while it may be a product of a distinct lack of education or the complete inability to reason, it still stands as hate speech since it such an incredible lie and so insulting to anybody who HAS been the victim of genocide. .

You are quite definitely antisemitic. There is no doubt about that.

Yeah keep telling yourself that - you might even believe it one day.

I have shown why I see Israel's policy in Palestine has been aimed at demoralizing, terrorizing and thus removing the population. While your only riposte is "you're anti-semitic", the usual garbage dished out thread-by-thread, meant to immunize Israel from legitimate criticism.
 
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Typical dogmatic nonsense from you.

You do not question whether or not the idiotic reference to "genocide" is fact based, of course, because that baseless accusation jibes with your own agenda -- an agenda which has nothing to do with actually seeking fact and everything to do with advancing your dogmatic world view.

Nor did you - where do you provide credible facts to back up your assertion he presented nothing but 'antisemetic' remarks? Where indeed did you provide facts or evidence to refute what he said?
Your one sided opinion that ANYONE who presents ANY arguement against Israel or its behaviour is 'antisemetic' is baseless and tiresome.
It leads to the inevitable conclusion that you cannot defend your position and resort to labelling people 'antisemetic' as a last ditch effort.
 
The Palestinian population has always increased each consecutive calendar year. This demographic data is easily available.

The snippet above may be a Hate Message violation. Convince me otherwise.

Wouldnt he have to attack a people group rather then a state in order for it to qualify as hate speach?
 
Typical dogmatic nonsense from you.

You do not question whether or not the idiotic reference to "genocide" is fact based, of course, because that baseless accusation jibes with your own agenda -- an agenda which has nothing to do with actually seeking fact and everything to do with advancing your dogmatic world view.

Oh, and FYI I am a 'non-believer' in religion and have no interest in advancing any religious view of the world. A position I imagine is greatlydifferent from your own.
 
Wouldnt he have to attack a people group rather then a state in order for it to qualify as hate speach?
You're perfectly aware of the implications of his statements, his post manifests an attack on the Jewish Israelis, I know you don't believe he's insinuating the Arabic-Israelis are perpetrating genocide.
 
Nor did you - where do you provide credible facts to back up your assertion he presented nothing but 'antisemetic' remarks? Where indeed did you provide facts or evidence to refute what he said?
Your one sided opinion that ANYONE who presents ANY arguement against Israel or its behaviour is 'antisemetic' is baseless and tiresome.
It leads to the inevitable conclusion that you cannot defend your position and resort to labelling people 'antisemetic' as a last ditch effort.

Not only are you insisting that I prove the negative to refute an accusation that is idiotic to the point of being the stuff of mental illness (and which any SANE person can look up for themselves and see the obvious evidence that the Palestinian population is among the FASTEST GROWING in the world), but you then lie in saying I refer to anybody who presents any argument against Israel as being antisemitic.

If you cannot bring anything to the table other than your lies and your unqualified supoprt for any psychotic nonsense offered only for the express purpose of demonizing a group of people, perhaps you shopuldlook no further than your nearest mirror if you seek that which is tiresome.

THere is only one purpose for this posting and that is to demonize. It uses a lie in order to demonize, and you support that lie while lying yourself. Good one.
 
You're perfectly aware of the implications of his statements, his post manifests an attack on the Jewish Israelis, I know you don't believe he's insinuating the Arabic-Israelis are perpetrating genocide.

He attacked the Isreali state not jews as a whole. Of course theres jews involved in the Isreali state but there actions should not be immune from criticism no matter how inaccurate. If he attacked jews per say that would be a different kettle of fish.
 
Oh, and FYI I am a 'non-believer' in religion and have no interest in advancing any religious view of the world. A position I imagine is greatlydifferent from your own.

Who said anything about religion? I am an agnostic,myself.

Your dogmatism lies in the fact that you parrot without understanding and display prejudice with neither knowlege nor reason.
 
If you cannot bring anything to the table other than your lies and your unqualified supoprt for any psychotic nonsense offered only for the express purpose of demonizing a group of people,

Is that so? I suppose by "pro-Israeli" standards it is, after all, for voting in Hamas they "are getting what they deserve", and "must face the consequences". I think that would certainly count as "demonizing a people". Don't you agree?

It is the Israeli state that pursues ethnic cleansing in the OT. There is no doubt about that. There is plenty of evidence to support that. Yet you are still trying to worm your way out of it with the "you're anti-semitic" crap.

Question: why do Israel continue to build settlement? Not enough room in Israel? As if.:roll:

As for "hate message violation" - I can help you along your way Tashah, and provide you with a mountain of posts about those "Palestinian scumbag suicide bombers", those "Islamo-nazis", who "get what they deserve", who "have no culture nor history" who "only want death and destruction", who should suffer "total destruction". And the Muslims who "all hate". You have your work cut out, it seems.
 
The mainstream Israeli goal is survival obviously, I don't see how anyone can doubt that. A few radical elements however unfortunately would like the West Bank, Gaza Strip and the Sinai as part of Israel and all Arabs droven out from these lands. But fortunately they are in the minority.
 
Israel continue to annex Palestinian land - perhaps the real reason why all these mindless evil Islamo-nazis are fiering rockets into Israel.



Israel plans to construct 1500 settlement housing units on private Palestinian lands - IMEMC


What is their main goal? Peace through settlement? Or peace by doing what they've been doing for the last 40 years? By genocide of the Palestinian people.

Yet more anti-Israeli propaganda rubbish. You really should consider the fact that what you're reapting is nothing but a pack of lies created by racist, anti-semetic, lying cleric scumbags.

The truth is that you haven't got the foggiest idea what Israel's plans are. Furthermore, you clearly have no clue what the truth is because you've never heard it. What you call truth is the racist rantings of a collection of radicalist morons.

Cheerio.
 
You really should consider the fact that what you're reapting is nothing but a pack of lies created by racist, anti-semetic, lying cleric scumbags.

What you call truth is the racist rantings of a collection of radicalist morons.

There you go Tashah!
 
Not only are you insisting that I prove the negative to refute an accusation that is idiotic to the point of being the stuff of mental illness (and which any SANE person can look up for themselves and see the obvious evidence that the Palestinian population is among the FASTEST GROWING in the world), but you then lie in saying I refer to anybody who presents any argument against Israel as being antisemitic.

If you cannot bring anything to the table other than your lies and your unqualified supoprt for any psychotic nonsense offered only for the express purpose of demonizing a group of people, perhaps you shopuldlook no further than your nearest mirror if you seek that which is tiresome.

THere is only one purpose for this posting and that is to demonize. It uses a lie in order to demonize, and you support that lie while lying yourself. Good one.

Here's your response to the original thread question :-

It is a lie aimed at demonizing the people who have actually suffered true genocide by attempting to portray them as the perpetrators thereof. It is a baseless accusation, and while it may be a product of a distinct lack of education or the complete inability to reason, it still stands as hate speech since it such an incredible lie and so insulting to anybody who HAS been the victim of genocide. .

You are quite definitely antisemitic. There is no doubt about that.

No-where do you attempt to debate the points put down, no-where do you try to justify or even argue your opinion (which you are entitled to have). Instead you just disregard the entire thead on the basis of 'antisemitic'.

And more garbage from you 'your unqualified supoprt for any psychotic nonsense offered only for the express purpose of demonizing a group of people' - who's demonizing whom? Is someone commits a wrong can we not identify and challenge that wrong because they happen to be Israeli or a jew?

The 'demonizing' and 'antisemitic' quips are losing their potency I'm afraid. We should not be afraid to question the actions of a group purely on the basis they have suffered in the past. Indeed, it is frightning that having allowed one group to suffer in this way we close our eyes to any actions they may take for fear of being labelled 'antisemitic' by persons such as yourself.
 
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