What is Hillary Clinton's Central Message

[Exquisitor]

Perhaps, if tuition free college is such a bad idea, we need to end tuition free K - 12 education as well.

We can do this when we have jobs for everybody.

 

[Dittohead not!]

We can do this when we have jobs for everybody.

Jobs that pay enough to be able to pay tuition for your kids to go to school. Now, that's a great goal.

 

[Absentglare]

Oh. You mean he is telling the students that they won't have to pay tuition to go to college but they'll have to pay some other way? Perhaps you can point me to a quote or other evidence that he is telling them that because I sure haven't heard him say that myself and I can't find anybody else who will vouch for it either.

No, that's not what i'm saying. It's obvious that Sanders is supporting having the government pay for the costs of college attendance. That's not free, we pay for that.

Look at this quote :

Perhaps, if tuition free college is such a bad idea, we need to end tuition free K - 12 education as well.

Think about it- why don't we force kindergarteners to pay their own tuition ...? *hint: they need to finish school first and then they can get a career*

Or do you want to systematically subjugate poor people, do you want to make sure rich, spoiled American brats continue to get more of the top college spots because it's somehow better to educate based on inherited wealth than academic merit in your eyes ?

 

[Cardinal]

A president needs a center to give the people a sense of where we are going. Barrack Obama's was Healthcare Reform, Bernie Sanders has Wealth Inequality and so far I really have no idea what Hillary is trying to sell America. It seems to simply be "VOTE FOR ME GOD DAMMIT"

Hillary Clinton To Nation: ‘Do Not **** This Up For Me’

WASHINGTON—After several seconds spent sitting motionless and glaring directly into the camera, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton reportedly began Sunday’s video announcing her 2016 presidential bid by warning the nation not to **** this up for her. “Listen up, assholes, ’cause I’m only saying this once: I’ve worked way too goddamn hard to let you morons blow this thing for me,” said Clinton, repeatedly jabbing her index finger toward the viewers at home while adding that if they thought she was going to simply sit back and watch them dick her over like they did in 2008, they were out of their ****ing minds.

404 - The Onion - America's Finest News Source

 

[Cardinal]

From what I've seen, Hillary's message is "Vote for me because I'm a woman and 9/11"!

I remember the 9/11 thing and slapped my head. Did she actually make the argument that she should be elected because she's a woman?

 

[Exquisitor]

I remember the 9/11 thing and slapped my head. Did she actually make the argument that she should be elected because she's a woman?

I made that argument.

No, that's not what i'm saying. It's obvious that Sanders is supporting having the government pay for the costs of college attendance. That's not free, we pay for that.

Look at this quote :



Think about it- why don't we force kindergarteners to pay their own tuition ...? *hint: they need to finish school first and then they can get a career*

Or do you want to systematically subjugate poor people, do you want to make sure rich, spoiled American brats continue to get more of the top college spots because it's somehow better to educate based on inherited wealth than academic merit in your eyes ?

Why not have school children work half their day. We open factories near schools and as a kindergartener you learn how to put in a four, eight, ten hour day.

 

[Socrates1]

That is the number one thing that separates the progressives from the conservatives. The progressives look to government to solve every problem and they really do believe government is more benevolent, honest, trustworthy, and competent to spend the people's money than the people are to spend their own money as they choose. They really do believe the government is a bottomless pit of money and the deficit and debt--at least those run up by progressives--are just numbers of little or no consequence. And they look to government to dictate who will have liberty to do whatever they want and who will not. If Hillary has a central message, it is that, and Bernie isn't all that much different.

Conservatives look to government to find ways to make it attractive and effective for the people to keep and spend their own money and believe that is what creates a free, productive, and sustainable economy that benefits the most people. I'm pretty sure neither Bernie nor Hillary look at it that way.

And you would be correct!

 

[AlbqOwl]

No, that's not what i'm saying. It's obvious that Sanders is supporting having the government pay for the costs of college attendance. That's not free, we pay for that.

Look at this quote :



Think about it- why don't we force kindergarteners to pay their own tuition ...? *hint: they need to finish school first and then they can get a career*

Or do you want to systematically subjugate poor people, do you want to make sure rich, spoiled American brats continue to get more of the top college spots because it's somehow better to educate based on inherited wealth than academic merit in your eyes ?

Bernie isn't telling anybody how much they'll have to pay for that 'free' education once they get it, or how much they'll pay if they don't get it for that matter. He is telling them it will be free. Most Progressives believe stuff paid for by government really is free.

How about getting the federal government out of public education altogether? It was affordable for the vast majority of people who wanted to go to college before the government started meddling.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Jobs that pay enough to be able to pay tuition for your kids to go to school. Now, that's a great goal.

I put myself through college quite nicely with minimum wage jobs or less, no help from the parents, and no student loans. And I got a great education. That's a great goal.

But then the federal government started meddling in public education. And costs went up immediately as they ALWAYS do when the federal government starts meddling. Shortly after, my kids put themselves through college with minimum wage jobs plus a little bit of help from us plus a modest amount of student loans. But they got good educations without being saddled with a huge debt to get it and without us having to take out a second mortgage.

And still the government continued to meddle more and more until now it is extremely difficult for a student to work his/her way through college in four or five years. The parents need to have considerable financial resources or the student will come out of college with a hefty debt in student loans.

But Bernie neither understands that nor is he informing his audience. He tells them he will make all that go away and those students won't have a care in the world. I don't see him as a dishonest man, so I have to believe that somewhere deep down, he honestly believes that is possible.

 

[Absentglare]

Bernie isn't telling anybody how much they'll have to pay for that 'free' education once they get it, or how much they'll pay if they don't get it for that matter. He is telling them it will be free. Most Progressives believe stuff paid for by government really is free.

How about getting the federal government out of public education altogether? It was affordable for the vast majority of people who wanted to go to college before the government started meddling.

No, he's not telling them it will be free.

"College for All: Sen. Sanders has proposed making public colleges and universities tuition-free and substantially reducing student debt, in a plan that would cost about $75 billion a year.Paid for by imposing a tax on Wall Street speculators that would generate about $300 billion in revenue."

https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-bernie-pays-for-his-proposals/

"The tax rates stipulated in this Act include 0.5 percent (50 basis points) for all stock transactions; 0.1 percent (10 basis points) for all bond transactions; and 0.005 percent (0.5 basis points) on the notional value of all derivative trades. We examine three sets of evidence to generate potential revenue estimates: 1) the levels of transaction costs in U.S. financial markets over time and within the range of financial market segments; 2) the extent of trading elasticities under various trading conditions; and 3) the current level of trading activity in U.S. financial markets. Based on this evidence, we conclude that a US FTT operating at the tax rates stated above would generate about $340 billion per year, assuming that a combination of trading volume decline and tax avoidance generates the equivalent of a 50 percent fall in trading revenue."

https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-bernie-pays-for-his-proposals/

 

[TheGoverness]

No, he's not telling them it will be free.

"College for All: Sen. Sanders has proposed making public colleges and universities tuition-free and substantially reducing student debt, in a plan that would cost about $75 billion a year.Paid for by imposing a tax on Wall Street speculators that would generate about $300 billion in revenue."

https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-bernie-pays-for-his-proposals/

"The tax rates stipulated in this Act include 0.5 percent (50 basis points) for all stock transactions; 0.1 percent (10 basis points) for all bond transactions; and 0.005 percent (0.5 basis points) on the notional value of all derivative trades. We examine three sets of evidence to generate potential revenue estimates: 1) the levels of transaction costs in U.S. financial markets over time and within the range of financial market segments; 2) the extent of trading elasticities under various trading conditions; and 3) the current level of trading activity in U.S. financial markets. Based on this evidence, we conclude that a US FTT operating at the tax rates stated above would generate about $340 billion per year, assuming that a combination of trading volume decline and tax avoidance generates the equivalent of a 50 percent fall in trading revenue."

https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-bernie-pays-for-his-proposals/

Exactly. Why is this so hard for people to understand?

 

[Dittohead not!]

I put myself through college quite nicely with minimum wage jobs or less, no help from the parents, and no student loans. And I got a great education. That's a great goal.

But then the federal government started meddling in public education. And costs went up immediately as they ALWAYS do when the federal government starts meddling. Shortly after, my kids put themselves through college with minimum wage jobs plus a little bit of help from us plus a modest amount of student loans. But they got good educations without being saddled with a huge debt to get it and without us having to take out a second mortgage.

And still the government continued to meddle more and more until now it is extremely difficult for a student to work his/her way through college in four or five years. The parents need to have considerable financial resources or the student will come out of college with a hefty debt in student loans.

But Bernie neither understands that nor is he informing his audience. He tells them he will make all that go away and those students won't have a care in the world. I don't see him as a dishonest man, so I have to believe that somewhere deep down, he honestly believes that is possible.

I was able to work my way through as well. I graduated in '64, broke but out of debt. That's just not possible in today's world.
But, if it was possible in '64 it should be possible in '16 as well. I'm not sure that Bernie Sanders can do it, or that the federal government can do it, but I'm convinced it can be done.

California once had tuition free state colleges, BTW, and a 5% sales tax. Since then, something has gone terribly wrong.

 

[Fearandloathing]

A president needs a center to give the people a sense of where we are going. Barrack Obama's was Healthcare Reform, Bernie Sanders has Wealth Inequality and so far I really have no idea what Hillary is trying to sell America. It seems to simply be "VOTE FOR ME GOD DAMMIT"

The best I can tell is a call to feminism, "we've come a long way, but have a long way to go" whatever that means.

I do believe the net product is "elect me", period. No because just do it and shut up

 

[TheGoverness]

The best I can tell is a call to feminism, "we've come a long way, but have a long way to go" whatever that means.

I do believe the net product is "elect me", period. No because just do it and shut up

3rd-Wave Feminism I think has been a total failure.

 

[Lovebug]

3rd-Wave Feminism I think has been a total failure.

For most but not for some. Sad.

 

[TheGoverness]

For most but not for some. Sad.

It is very sad. Today, feminists complain about their 1st-World-Problems like video games and emojis, while many women in Ghana and the Middle East are being oppressed and killed.

 

[Fearandloathing]

It is very sad. Today, feminists complain about their 1st-World-Problems like video games and emojis, while many women in Ghana and the Middle East are being oppressed and killed.

Here there is a hue and cry for "income equality" and a push through the "glass ceiling". It is hard to argue since the premier of the province for the last seven years is a single mom, five of 10 premiers are women and the federal cabinet is now 50% women, and many with some pretty impressive CV's.

Meanwhile, our native women 'go missing". There is a highway in northern British Columbia that has been named the "highway of tearsl" as so many women have gone missing over a 15 year period. The conditions on most reserves is horrid, and women are routinely subjected to marital violence. It has only been since the election of Trudeau who dispatched his new cabinet minister to personally get involved. After about two months traveling the country she has reported that the 'missing women" issues is not hundreds, but likely "thousands".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_of_Tears_murders

And until last fall, not one government, federal or provincial even acknowledge a problem, and here there is a scandal now about civil servants who have been 'triple deleting" emails to cover a written trail of evidence.

This is issue goes beyond women's rights and moves into native rights and that opens up a Pandora's box of corruption at all kinds of levels

 

[AlbqOwl]

No, he's not telling them it will be free.

"College for All: Sen. Sanders has proposed making public colleges and universities tuition-free and substantially reducing student debt, in a plan that would cost about $75 billion a year.Paid for by imposing a tax on Wall Street speculators that would generate about $300 billion in revenue."

https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-bernie-pays-for-his-proposals/

"The tax rates stipulated in this Act include 0.5 percent (50 basis points) for all stock transactions; 0.1 percent (10 basis points) for all bond transactions; and 0.005 percent (0.5 basis points) on the notional value of all derivative trades. We examine three sets of evidence to generate potential revenue estimates: 1) the levels of transaction costs in U.S. financial markets over time and within the range of financial market segments; 2) the extent of trading elasticities under various trading conditions; and 3) the current level of trading activity in U.S. financial markets. Based on this evidence, we conclude that a US FTT operating at the tax rates stated above would generate about $340 billion per year, assuming that a combination of trading volume decline and tax avoidance generates the equivalent of a 50 percent fall in trading revenue."

https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-bernie-pays-for-his-proposals/

If you believe imposing that kind of tax on so-called "Wall Street speculators" would not have extreme economic consequences, and not in a good way, you are living in as much of a dream world as Bernie Sanders is.

I distinctly remember George H. W. Bush expecting the so-called 'rich' to pony up a whole bunch of taxes when he broke his no new taxes pledge that cost him the 1992 election. He did get about $50m in new revenue but in the process threw us into deeper recession and damaged the boat building and private plane industries and fine jewelry businesses that have not recovered yet. And it no doubt cost us many hundreds of millions if not billions in revenues due to lost jobs, higher unemployment compensation, and a general business slow down.

A similar assault on Wall Street would just send serious investors abroad or they would withdraw their money from the market altogether, and it would severely damage those of us who are modestly invested in the market. Result? More years of depressing recession.

And the kids won't care because they still think they're getting free stuff.

 

[AlbqOwl]

I was able to work my way through as well. I graduated in '64, broke but out of debt. That's just not possible in today's world.
But, if it was possible in '64 it should be possible in '16 as well. I'm not sure that Bernie Sanders can do it, or that the federal government can do it, but I'm convinced it can be done.

California once had tuition free state colleges, BTW, and a 5% sales tax. Since then, something has gone terribly wrong.

It can be done if the federal government gets out of it entirely and lets the free market work. Universities that have to compete for students will bring those costs down as far as they have to in order to attract students.

 

[Absentglare]

If you believe imposing that kind of tax on so-called "Wall Street speculators" would not have extreme economic consequences, and not in a good way, you are living in as much of a dream world as Bernie Sanders is.

I distinctly remember George H. W. Bush expecting the so-called 'rich' to pony up a whole bunch of taxes when he broke his no new taxes pledge that cost him the 1992 election. He did get about $50m in new revenue but in the process threw us into deeper recession and damaged the boat building and private plane industries and fine jewelry businesses that have not recovered yet. And it no doubt cost us many hundreds of millions if not billions in revenues due to lost jobs, higher unemployment compensation, and a general business slow down.

A similar assault on Wall Street would just send serious investors abroad or they would withdraw their money from the market altogether, and it would severely damage those of us who are modestly invested in the market. Result? More years of depressing recession.

And the kids won't care because they still think they're getting free stuff.

No, literally none of the hysteria there is accurate.

If you think day trading, which really just amplifies speculative noise, serves some kind of valuable purpose, you're the one living in a dream world.

 

[AlbqOwl]

No, literally none of the hysteria there is accurate.

If you think day trading, which really just amplifies speculative noise, serves some kind of valuable purpose, you're the one living in a dream world.

If you think the U.S. market is the only one the day traders can trade in, you live in a world I've never heard of. Or if you take the profit from the day traders, if you think they'll keep taking that risk, I have several nice bridges to show you.

The thing the Democrats have never learned is that you have to calculate how people will react to efforts to manipulate them, and the very negative consequences that can result from that. Sanders and Hillary both seem oblivious to that reality.

 

[Absentglare]

If you think the U.S. market is the only one the day traders can trade in, you live in a world I've never heard of. Or if you take the profit from the day traders, if you think they'll keep taking that risk, I have several nice bridges to show you.

The thing the Democrats have never learned is that you have to calculate how people will react to efforts to manipulate them, and the very negative consequences that can result from that. Sanders and Hillary both seem oblivious to that reality.

"Before addressing potential objections, consider this: A one-basis-point tax on $1,000 worth of stock would cost the stock trader a dime. A $100,000 trade would generate a tax of only $10."

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/07/2...-on-financial-transactions.html?referer=&_r=0

 

[Abbazorkzog]

Hillary Clinton would be by far the worst choice to represent women. What do you expect with her womanizing husband and patriarchal elites attempting to bankroll her into office?

 

[AlbqOwl]

"Before addressing potential objections, consider this: A one-basis-point tax on $1,000 worth of stock would cost the stock trader a dime. A $100,000 trade would generate a tax of only $10."

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/07/2...-on-financial-transactions.html?referer=&_r=0

The last I read, Sanders plan would set a 50 cent tax on every $100 of stock trades on stock sales, and lesser amounts on transactions involving bonds, derivatives, and other financial instruments. You can bet that would have an effect on a jittery market in which profit margins can be razor thin.

 

[Lovebug]

It is very sad. Today, feminists complain about their 1st-World-Problems like video games and emojis, while many women in Ghana and the Middle East are being oppressed and killed.

We often forget real suffering going on in this world while we are whining about getting this or that little feeling hurt, from having a wedding cake made at a different bakery or not having the right color lipstick. God forbid a shortage of silicone for the Kardashians.
OMG, we have to take a detour or the guy in front of us is driving too slow.
How many people would give their right arm for a loaf of bread, how many women would give both arms for a promise not to be beaten and abused?
Priorities are a wonderful thing. They can also illuminate our self absorbed existence.