What is different between REAL CHRISTIANITY & a CULT that thinks it's "Christian"?

[TypicalRussian]

What? The End Times is an idea that predated Christianity by hundreds, if not thousands of years in Jewish thought. The Julian calendar, of which the Gregorian is but an adjustment, was developed by Caesar, before the birth of Christ. Accurate, mechanical clocks were developed as early as 300BC by Archimedes.

Neither societies really conceptualized time as linear despite greek inventions. They were no clock towers towering over you, no ben Franklin "time is money", etc. This is a very well-documented historical development

Christianity is an Eastern faith. It's nothing more than a Semitic corruption of Greek philosophy that the Romans brought East.

Christianity is not a semitic faith

 

[TypicalRussian]

So you are claiming that mathematics from Pythagoras to Euclid was not the foundation of modern mathematics? That the political philosophy of democracy/republics did not have its origins in Athens and Rome? That putting aside superstition and supernatural explanations and trying to understand the world on its own terms, the restless spirit of questioning and open enquiry represented by Socrates and Greek philosophy, was not the foundation of western thought? Remember, this distinction between science and philosophy is only a fairly recent distinction- even in Isaac Newton's time, he considered himself a "natural philosopher"- considered a sub-branch of philosophy. Philosophy and the spirit of restless questioning and skepticism of superstition/supernatural explanations did not start with the Bible.

I dont doubt the Greek foundation for it, but the MODERN WORLD came from the medieval times.

The Greeks not only knew the Earth was round, but even calculated its approximate circumference. After Rome fell, it took many centuries for the Christian world to recoup much of the technological know-how to create the kind of architecture they were engaging in, let alone try to surpass it.

But that culture is is the foundation of the modern west, democracy, and science. Christianity was just an imported middle eastern religion.

LOL what. Sparta allowed human hunting of the slave class.

I am not sure how having brutal gladiator games changes any of that. Are you saying burning people alive at the stake for heresy and unquestioning blind faith in the infallibility of the Pope was the actual foundation of modern science and western culture instead?

Capital Punishment got less severe thanks to Christianity. The Romans practiced infanticide if they thought their infants were too weak.

 

[ataraxia]

I dont doubt the Greek foundation for it, but the MODERN WORLD came from the medieval times.

The MODERN WORLD is a product of the European enlightenment, not medieval times. Enlightenment thinkers championed reason, empirical science, and individual liberty as antidotes to what they saw as the intellectual stagnation, backwardness, and moral hypocrisy of the Church. Figures like Voltaire, Diderot, and Spinoza openly criticized religious orthodoxy, arguing that faith-based doctrines had long suppressed free inquiry and upheld unjust hierarchies. While it's true that not all Enlightenment thinkers or scientists were atheists, many sought to separate morality from theology and science from revelation, to build societies based on rational principles and rational discourse in society, rather than divine authority and command—effectively challenging the Church's monopoly on truth and its influence over both private belief and public life.

Does the phrase "separation of church and state" ring a bell? That came from the European enlightenment. The result? Modern western democracies.

Examples of enlightenment thought in action:

“During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution. What influence in fact have ecclesiastical establishments had on Civil Society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the Civil authority; in many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny: in no instance have they been seen the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty, may have found an established Clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just Government instituted to secure & perpetuate it needs them not.”
-James Madison

“But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?”
– John Adams, letter to FA Van der Kamp, December 27, 1816.

"Man, once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without a rudder, is the sport of every wind. With such persons, gullibility, which they call faith, takes the helm from the hand of reason, and the mind becomes a wreck."
-Thomas Jefferson

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

"All National institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish (Muslim), appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
-Thomas Paine

"Mingling religion with politics may be disavowed and reprobated by every inhabitant of America….As an engine of power it serves the purpose of despotism; and as a means of wealth, the avarice of priests; but so far as respects the good of man in general, it leads to nothing here or hereafter.”
_Thomas Paine

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

LOL what. Sparta allowed human hunting of the slave class.

Sure. But modern mathematics, philosophy, art, architecture, and political philosophy all came from Greece, not the old Testament.

You think ideas of Democracy and human rights come from medieval times? LOL.

Capital Punishment got less severe thanks to Christianity.

Links?

The Romans practiced infanticide if they thought their infants were too weak.

Medieval Christians killed their neighbor if they were not papist.

 

[TypicalRussian]

The MODERN WORLD is a product of the European enlightenment, not medieval times. Enlightenment thinkers championed reason, empirical science, and individual liberty as antidotes to what they saw as the intellectual stagnation, backwardness, and moral hypocrisy of the Church. Figures like Voltaire, Diderot, and Spinoza openly criticized religious orthodoxy, arguing that faith-based doctrines had long suppressed free inquiry and upheld unjust hierarchies. While it's true that not all Enlightenment thinkers or scientists were atheists, many sought to separate morality from theology and science from revelation, to build societies based on rational principles and rational discourse in society, rather than divine authority and command—effectively challenging the Church's monopoly on truth and its influence over both private belief and public life.

Does the phrase "separation of church and state" ring a bell? That came from the European enlightenment. The result? Modern western democracies.

Examples of enlightenment thought in action:

“During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution. What influence in fact have ecclesiastical establishments had on Civil Society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the Civil authority; in many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny: in no instance have they been seen the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wished to subvert the public liberty, may have found an established Clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just Government instituted to secure & perpetuate it needs them not.”
-James Madison

“But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?”
– John Adams, letter to FA Van der Kamp, December 27, 1816.

"Man, once surrendering his reason, has no remaining guard against absurdities the most monstrous, and like a ship without a rudder, is the sport of every wind. With such persons, gullibility, which they call faith, takes the helm from the hand of reason, and the mind becomes a wreck."
-Thomas Jefferson

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

"All National institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish (Muslim), appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
-Thomas Paine

"Mingling religion with politics may be disavowed and reprobated by every inhabitant of America….As an engine of power it serves the purpose of despotism; and as a means of wealth, the avarice of priests; but so far as respects the good of man in general, it leads to nothing here or hereafter.”
_Thomas Paine

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance of which their civil as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purposes."
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Alexander von Humboldt, Dec. 6, 1813.

And who says that the founding fathers exclusively created the modern world.

Sure. But modern mathematics, philosophy, art, architecture, and political philosophy all came from Greece, not the old Testament.

Right, which is why the NT was always emphasized more.

You think ideas of Democracy and human rights come from medieval times? LOL.

Human rights absolutely does. Medieval Christians got rid of slavery on the continent.

Links?

Medieval Christians killed their neighbor if they were not papist.

And the French Revolution killed nuns, what's your point?

 

[dairyair]

Was that not his grave? BTW, KJV says in Acts 2:31...

King James Bible
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Not per the definition of a grave. Where the burial is an excavation.
The tomb was a cave? Already a hole in a hill. Not excavated not buried. Just laid there in linen.


Also of note: Acts was likely authored by Luke. A person who never met Jesus. So, he had no knowledge of what transpired.
...

grave​

1 of 6

noun (1)​

1
: an excavation (see excavation sense 2) for burial of a body
broadly : a burial place

 

[Logician Man]

Christianity was the best thing to ethics anyone could have asked for. In fact you could make the case they were the OG feminists

The Christianity of this era has never been less mystical. I know many young Orthodox Christians who dont care for the mystical tradition and just want to joint to "own the libs"

30 Powerful bible verses about women being quiet​

1 Timothy 2:11​

“Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness.” – 1 Timothy 2:11

Ephesians 5:22​

“Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.” – Ephesians 5:22

Colossians 3:18​

“Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.” – Colossians 3:18

1 Corinthians 11:3​

“But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband,is and the head of Christ is God.” – 1 Corinthians 11:3

1 Timothy 2:12​

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” – 1 Timothy 2:12

 

[TypicalRussian]

30 Powerful bible verses about women being quiet​

1 Timothy 2:11​

Ephesians 5:22​

Colossians 3:18​

1 Corinthians 11:3​

1 Timothy 2:12​

Women in Church history - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Christianity emerged from within surrounding patriarchal societies that placed men in positions of authority in marriage, society and government, and, whilst the religion restricted membership of the priesthood to males only, in its early centuries it offered women an enhanced social status and quickly found a wide following among women. With the exception of the Eastern Christian churches,[1] in most denominations, women have been the majority of church attendees since early in the Christian era and into the present"

 

[dairyair]

I suggest you put((sarcasm ) or lol after that because the magas believe that Trump is humble and forgiving

No they don't believe that.

They just don't care. In fact, they like the fact he is not humble and a big arse.

Another trait the doesn't scream Xtian.

 

[dairyair]

I just cannot suspend all logic and believe that an invisible man in the sky went poof and everything happened

Well, it wasn't poof.
It was 6 days of making things.

Although, the words used 3000 yrs ago were hebrew. Not sure the actual word day had been invented yet.

...

What is the meaning of יוֹם (yowm) in Bereshit?​

The 'catch all' meaning of the word 'yom' is 'time period'
The precise meaning of yom in tanach has 4 meanings depending on the context.

1. Either Yom as in daylight (12 hours)
2. Yom as a single day (24 hours)
3. Yom as a year or two (As used in shmuel and Yehoshua)
4. Yom can be an indefinite amount of time, such as the word 'b'yom meaning 'when, or the phrase 'Ad hayom hazeh' (until this day)

In Bereshit(Genesis) both the first and second meanings of the word are clearly used and the 4th meaning of the word is arguably used. There is no single opinion agreed upon by everyone as to which meaning is used where.

What is the meaning of יוֹם (yowm) in Bereshit?

I've heard conflicting reports of how the creation days' יוֹם (yowm), in Bereshit are interpreted in the Jewish community. How do actual Hebrew scholars define day in Bereshit? Six 24 hour periods ...

judaism.stackexchange.com

 

[Logician Man]

Women in Church history - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Christianity emerged from within surrounding patriarchal societies that placed men in positions of authority in marriage, society and government, and, whilst the religion restricted membership of the priesthood to males only, in its early centuries it offered women an enhanced social status and quickly found a wide following among women. With the exception of the Eastern Christian churches,[1] in most denominations, women have been the majority of church attendees since early in the Christian era and into the present"

TypicalRussian said:
In fact you could make the case they were the OG feminists

FEMINIST Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster​

A feminist is a person who supports or engages in feminism, a movement for social, political, and economic equality of the sexes.

 

[ataraxia]

And who says that the founding fathers exclusively created the modern world.

They didn't.

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest."
-Denis Diderot

"Christianity is the most ridiculous, the most absurd, and bloody religion that has ever infected the world."
-Voltaire

"That which convinces reason is more valid than that which is revealed."
-Gotthold Lessing

“All religions have been invented by men... to terrify and enslave the ignorant multitude.”
– Antonio Genovesi, A Philosophical Dissertation upon Death

“The Church became more powerful by concealing the truth than by proclaiming it.”
-Pietro Giannone

Right, which is why the NT was always emphasized more.

Human rights absolutely does. Medieval Christians got rid of slavery on the continent.

Slavery was gotten rid of on the continent because they didn't need it for farming there anymore. They needed it in the colonies. Why does it matter where it's propagated?

"[Slavery] was established by decree of Almighty God...it is sanctioned in the Bible, in both Testaments, from Genesis to Revelation...it has existed in all ages, has been found among the people of the highest civilization, and in nations of the highest proficiency in the arts."
-Jefferson Davis, President of the Confederate States of America.

"There is not one verse in the Bible inhibiting slavery, but many regulating it. It is not then, we conclude, immoral."
-Rev. Alexander Campbell

"The right of holding slaves is clearly established in the Holy Scriptures, both by precept and example."
-Rev. R. Furman, D.D., Baptist, of South Carolina

"... under the same protection as any other species of lawful property...That the Ten Commandments are the word of G-d, and as such, of the very highest authority, is acknowledged by Christians as well as by Jews...How dare you, in the face of the sanction and protection afforded to slave property in the Ten Commandments--how dare you denounce slaveholding as a sin? When you remember that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Job--the men with whom the Almighty conversed, with whose names he emphatically connects his own most holy name, and to whom He vouchsafed to give the character of 'perfect, upright, fearing G-d and eschewing evil' (Job 1:8)--that all these men were slaveholders, does it not strike you that you are guilty of something very little short of blasphemy?"
-MJ Raphall, 1861

And the French Revolution killed nuns, what's your point?

And Muslims during medieval times were deemed to be more humane and just than the Christians. Most minorities in Christian-ruled territories welcomed Muslim invaders because of this. They were seen as liberators.

 

[dairyair]

One must read the Bible in context of every other verse in the Bible. But what do Jews think? https://www.jewishvoice.org/read/article/was-mary-virgin

Jews, most of them, don't believe the Jesus story.
They are still waiting for their Messiah to come.


You need to reference real Jewish literature to have a take on the Jewish beliefs.

 

[Daisy]

Not per the definition of a grave. Where the burial is an excavation.
The tomb was a cave? Already a hole in a hill. Not excavated not buried. Just laid there in linen.


Also of note: Acts was likely authored by Luke. A person who never met Jesus. So, he had no knowledge of what transpired.
...

grave​

1 of 6

noun (1)​

1
: an excavation (see excavation sense 2) for burial of a body
broadly : a burial place

Well, I see you missed the point about Jesus, of all people, being in hell or the grave...as for the grave, that is exactly what other translations do call it, the grave...hell is mankind's common grave...nothing more...

GOD'S WORD® Translation
David knew that the Messiah would come back to life, and he spoke about that before it ever happened. He said that the Messiah wouldn't be left in the grave and that his body wouldn't decay.

Contemporary English Version
David knew this would happen, and so he told us Christ would be raised to life. He said God would not leave him in the grave or let his body decay.

Good News Translation
David saw what God was going to do in the future, and so he spoke about the resurrection of the Messiah when he said, 'He was not abandoned in the world of the dead; his body did not rot in the grave.'

A Faithful Version
He foresaw this and spoke concerning the resurrection of Christ, that His soul was not left in the grave, nor did His flesh see corruption.

 

[dairyair]

Well, I see you missed the point about Jesus, of all people, being in hell or the grave...as for the grave, that is exactly what other translations do call it, the grave...hell is mankind's common grave...nothing more...

GOD'S WORD® Translation
David knew that the Messiah would come back to life, and he spoke about that before it ever happened. He said that the Messiah wouldn't be left in the grave and that his body wouldn't decay.

Contemporary English Version
David knew this would happen, and so he told us Christ would be raised to life. He said God would not leave him in the grave or let his body decay.

Good News Translation
David saw what God was going to do in the future, and so he spoke about the resurrection of the Messiah when he said, 'He was not abandoned in the world of the dead; his body did not rot in the grave.'

A Faithful Version
He foresaw this and spoke concerning the resurrection of Christ, that His soul was not left in the grave, nor did His flesh see corruption.

I didn't miss it, I said that story isn't accurate if one is using the term grave.

I care less what english translates to. Words don't often translate nicely.
Now, the Hebrew word for grave is sheol. Had that been used then sure. But see, the story isn't hebrew, the language of god' chosen people.
But of another origin altogether. Not relevant to Hewbrews or their religion.

Grave could be a mistranslation. You need to find the hebrew word used.

I gave you the definition of the word grave today. It doesn't mesh with the possible mistranslations you keep posting.

 

[Daisy]

I didn't miss it, I said that story isn't accurate if one is using the term grave.

I care less what english translates to. Words don't often translate nicely.
Now, the Hebrew word for grave is sheol. Had that been used then sure. But see, the story isn't hebrew, the language of god' chosen people.
But of another origin altogether. Not relevant to Hewbrews or their religion.

Grave could be a mistranslation. You need to find the hebrew word used.

I gave you the definition of the word grave today. It doesn't mesh with the possible mistranslations you keep posting.

Sorry, you're wrong...a grave can be anything, even the sea...the grave is wherever a dead body ends up...

grave
a place of burial for a dead body,
https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=51ee083cf20858f1&sxsrf=AHTn8zpfGxFS303gpmHElbYPBT9Gafm5kw:1744669456206&q=grave&si=APYL9bseOkRtPplmiFwUxbDEwT9fYu1aWfxWfxipbSsiR4dnu6jPjPqzOlin3pTsbxAhpHC9iIe5BGG5869PyhngYC3irnPQLg==&expnd=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjI6b-ZyNiMAxWaMlkFHZZTCwUQ2v4IegUIIBCGAw&biw=1366&bih=607&dpr=1

 

[Logician Man]

]

"Christianity emerged from within surrounding patriarchal societies that placed men in positions of authority in marriage

Are the words/directives in the Christian biblical scriptures presented below the words/directives of "patriarchal men" or are they the 'inspired words/directives' of the Christian God written by patriarchal men on behalf of the Christian God?

1 Timothy 2:11​

“Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness.” – 1 Timothy 2:11

Ephesians 5:22​

“Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.” – Ephesians 5:22

Colossians 3:18​

“Wives, submit to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord.” – Colossians 3:18

1 Corinthians 11:3​

“But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of a wife is her husband,is and the head of Christ is God.” – 1 Corinthians 11:3

1 Timothy 2:12​

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” – 1 Timothy 2:12

 

[Gordy327]

Women in Church history - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"Christianity emerged from within surrounding patriarchal societies that placed men in positions of authority in marriage, society and government, and, whilst the religion restricted membership of the priesthood to males only, in its early centuries it offered women an enhanced social status and quickly found a wide following among women. With the exception of the Eastern Christian churches,[1] in most denominations, women have been the majority of church attendees since early in the Christian era and into the present"

The take away from that is, Christianity is a sexist and/misogynistic religion. Rather typical of most Abrahamistic religions.

 

[LittleNipper]

Jews, most of them, don't believe the Jesus story.
They are still waiting for their Messiah to come.


You need to reference real Jewish literature to have a take on the Jewish beliefs.

I do when I show you the OLD TESTAMENT that includes the Torah --- the first 5 books of the Bible. I don't need to do anything. Perhaps you need to put yourself out a bit.

 

[LittleNipper]

Here is another hymn that JWs --- WITNESSES will NOT sing: Witnesses don't believe CHRIST bodily arose, but GOD dissolved CHRIST's body.

 

[spud_meister]

Neither societies really conceptualized time as linear despite greek inventions. They were no clock towers towering over you, no ben Franklin "time is money", etc. This is a very well-documented historical development

Yeah, even with a religious conception of linear time, the same advances weren't made. Demonstrating the driving force behind changes in technology were material, not ideal.

Christianity is not a semitic faith

Of course it is. It's a branch of Messianic Judaism, its early language was Aramaic.

 

[Noodlegawd]

The young lady in the following video knows what it's about. And so, before defining CHRISTIANITY, I suggest you sincerely watch this video, and I believe that you will understand why I believe as I do:
The main thrust of this video concerns the Mormonism/LDS/CHURCH of CHRIST of the LATTER DAY SAINTS; however, the Witnesses are mentioned, as well as, a few others. They ultimately fall into the same deception ----- "WE GO TO THE "CORRECT" CHURCH. All the others are evil, wrong, apostate, and going to this specific "church" puts one on the "CORRECT" road to GOD."

No difference. Real Christianity is just a bunch of really big cults.

 

[devildavid]

Does a true Christian go commando when wearing a kilt?

 

[tosca1]

Hard to get everyone to agree on what "real Christianity" is, but if you go solely by the words of Christ I'd argue anyone who supports a man who is an adulterer and a cheat, whose greed and vanity far outpace his compassion and mercy, and who routinely shits on the poor, the disenfranchised, and the immigrant is not following "real Christianity."

So.........you telling us you're lily white?
No one should be supportive of you in everything? Even if you're trying to do good?


Then, you have no idea what Jesus is all about.


Luke 5:32
I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.”

 

[tosca1]

Well, I see you missed the point about Jesus, of all people, being in hell or the grave...as for the grave, that is exactly what other translations do call it, the grave...hell is mankind's common grave...nothing more...

GOD'S WORD® Translation
David knew that the Messiah would come back to life, and he spoke about that before it ever happened. He said that the Messiah wouldn't be left in the grave and that his body wouldn't decay.

Contemporary English Version
David knew this would happen, and so he told us Christ would be raised to life. He said God would not leave him in the grave or let his body decay.

Good News Translation
David saw what God was going to do in the future, and so he spoke about the resurrection of the Messiah when he said, 'He was not abandoned in the world of the dead; his body did not rot in the grave.'

A Faithful Version
He foresaw this and spoke concerning the resurrection of Christ, that His soul was not left in the grave, nor did His flesh see corruption.

That's your preferred opinion.


But the Bible mentions another place called HELL, with vivid description.
It is a place of eternal suffering.

If God had described it as such............why isn't it possible that He's giving a LITERAL description?


Lol - you're saying.....all people, even the good ones go to hell? Because they die?
Also - why are dead people described as "being ASLEEP?"
If they're "asleep" - that would mean, they're not dead! RIGHT?


Why is there a Resurrection of the DEAD?
Everyone - including the wicked, will rise?


Again....................are you saying, God was making a fib?



In a nutshell, here is what the Bible says:

Only the physical dies. It decays.
But the spirit lives on, to await the Resurrection.
They go to God, or to a special place designated for them
When the Reusrrection of the Day comes, the spirit will reunite with the physical body and it will be Resurrected as a "SPIRIT BODY" - an immortal.
Therefore, you can forget whatever it is we know right now about the human body!
We won't have the same physical composition when we rise up as immortals. OBVIOUSLY!

 

[LittleNipper]

No difference. Real Christianity is just a bunch of really big cults.

Did you ever wonder if Atheism is a cult. I'd say it is ----- as you all sound alike...