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What is actually wrong with being high?

tererun

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I understand there are negative indirect problems with being high. I am asking what are the actual problems with feeling good, having an altered state of consciousness, feeling relaxed, and having fun? Yes, people can do bad things with drugs, but they can also do good things. There are lots of people who use drugs for fun and pay taxes, do their jobs, live their lives, and make the world a better place with their presence. I want to know why is it wrong to be high. I know the mistakes one can make or the problems that come from certain substances, but I want to know why someone being high pisses others off so much.
 

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If you aren't hurting anyone else, I personally don't think there's anything wrong with it. We all have our coping mechanisms, be they drugs, booze, religion, workaholism, personal improvement obsessions, and any of a wide variety of things we do to make ourselves feel better about the human condition. Living is tough at times, and the world can be a meat-grinder.
 

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I understand there are negative indirect problems with being high. I am asking what are the actual problems with feeling good, having an altered state of consciousness, feeling relaxed, and having fun? Yes, people can do bad things with drugs, but they can also do good things. There are lots of people who use drugs for fun and pay taxes, do their jobs, live their lives, and make the world a better place with their presence. I want to know why is it wrong to be high. I know the mistakes one can make or the problems that come from certain substances, but I want to know why someone being high pisses others off so much.
I always want people to be in control of their selves, fully aware of what's going on and what they are doing while they're interacting with others - when they're not, problems can and do happen. Do they always happen? No. But being under a seriously altered state shouldn't be a mission that one aims to achieve.

I don't buy into the concept that "feeling good" means "having an altered state of consciousness" - I don't believe anyone who is a drug addict finds it to be "fun" and, further, I don't believe that they are truly "relaxed."

The "I want to self medicate" argument is the exact thing that will NOT further anyone's efforts to do drugs.

If someone needs to "feel good" by "altering their state of awareness and consciousness" and that is "more appealing that being sober" - they need to seek therapy and learn how to cope with something called "being a living person." It's disturbing that so many people don't want to be in-tune and aware. Is life really that bad? If so - seek help. Have problems - getting high won't fix them or improve your quality of life.
 

tererun

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If you aren't hurting anyone else, I personally don't think there's anything wrong with it. We all have our coping mechanisms, be they drugs, booze, religion, workaholism, personal improvement obsessions, and any of a wide variety of things we do to make ourselves feel better about the human condition. Living is tough at times, and the world can be a meat-grinder.
That is the thing, I don't do it just because i feel bad. There is doing drugs in celebration. There is doing drugs for personal mental exploration. Those areas are an adventure to me at the time. Not all highs are like that, some do not take you places, they just make you feel up and good. Then there are those that make you feel mellow. I do like that you used the word condition because that fits better than alternatives. I am not running away from life with drugs. I am experiencing it. I know some can use them to run away, and that is a problem, but they can also be used to enhance things.
 

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That is the thing, I don't do it just because i feel bad. There is doing drugs in celebration. There is doing drugs for personal mental exploration. Those areas are an adventure to me at the time. Not all highs are like that, some do not take you places, they just make you feel up and good. Then there are those that make you feel mellow. I do like that you used the word condition because that fits better than alternatives. I am not running away from life with drugs. I am experiencing it. I know some can use them to run away, and that is a problem, but they can also be used to enhance things.
You need help if that's how you think about things. That is not 'living a life' - that is 'altering how you perceive life'.

Exercising, getting out of the house, relaxing in the sunshine, hanging out with friends, and doing all sort of non-mentally altered-state activities are the better way to enhance how you 'experience life' . . . What you're experiencing is 'fuzzy' and 'disorientation' and 'disassociation' as well as 'a disconnect' - that is not living.

Not my issue that you think that's 'fun' and 'mental exploration' (which is a load of bull in and of itself - you cannot explore your mind while you fry your synapses.)
 

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I understand there are negative indirect problems with being high. I am asking what are the actual problems with feeling good, having an altered state of consciousness, feeling relaxed, and having fun? Yes, people can do bad things with drugs, but they can also do good things. There are lots of people who use drugs for fun and pay taxes, do their jobs, live their lives, and make the world a better place with their presence. I want to know why is it wrong to be high. I know the mistakes one can make or the problems that come from certain substances, but I want to know why someone being high pisses others off so much.
The problem is that it's so easy to get that feeling. You don't have to put any effort or thought into it. Yeah, it's groovy and all that but it's also a gigantic crutch to get to that blissed out state that we all need some times.

Don't get me wrong, I've probably sucked down a dumptruck full of the stuff over the years but to achieve that state via social interaction or meditation is just as rewarding without any of the negative effects.
 

tererun

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I always want people to be in control of their selves, fully aware of what's going on and what they are doing while they're interacting with others - when they're not, problems can and do happen. Do they always happen? No. But being under a seriously altered state shouldn't be a mission that one aims to achieve.
I understand your concern, but there are those of us who desire those altered states. Not everyone handles drugs the same way, and not everyone finds the same value in tastes. Why do people eat hot and spicy food that hurts them? Not every feeling worth feeling is good. I do look to those altered states. Disassociatives are truly radical in how you can see the mind's thought processes break down from the inside. Having studied things like abnormal psych and brain functions and processes the experience is educational along with being enjoyable. I was talking once to a girl who saw things from a distorted perception. From what I could unserstand she was in an almost constant high. I understood the things she was talking about when others couldn't because i had seen and experienced her perception. I come down, but she is always up there. We talked for hours about art and altered reality. Those are out of control and scary areas to some people.
I don't buy into the concept that "feeling good" means "having an altered state of consciousness" - I don't believe anyone who is a drug addict finds it to be "fun" and, further, I don't believe that they are truly "relaxed."
First off feeling good is not having an altered state of consciousness. having an altered state of consciousness can be fun, but certainly there are things you can enjoy being sober. I am with you in the idea that if you need drugs to feel happy you have a problem that needs to be addressed and doing drugs is just going to make things worse. Sometimes you make things worse for a break, but you do have to deal with life. I am all with that. I am addicted to tobacco. I have been smoking for over 20 years now. I have tried many times to quit because of the health problems with it. I like it. I enjoy smoking. I have come to the point that I have realized I want to smoke, but I have to take it in certain levels. Not every drug user is an addict, and addiction is not what I am asking about. The addict still gets high. It may be less. They may want more. They are still high, and they still enjoy doing it. Don't think there is not something that feels good there.
The "I want to self medicate" argument is the exact thing that will NOT further anyone's efforts to do drugs.
I agree people who use self medication are not using scientific medical standards and that certainly is not very accurate or healthy. if you are trying to treat a sickness you should have an outside observer keeping tabs because the altered perception will alter your perception and render you unable to properly diagnose things. But how is the feeling of being high bad for you?
If someone needs to "feel good" by "altering their state of awareness and consciousness" and that is "more appealing that being sober" - they need to seek therapy and learn how to cope with something called "being a living person." It's disturbing that so many people don't want to be in-tune and aware. Is life really that bad? If so - seek help. Have problems - getting high won't fix them or improve your quality of life.
What if it is just a want? I want chocolate. It is not really nutritious. I chose to eat it because it enhances life. I could live life without it, but it is there so I will live my life with it. Why is getting high wrong in that case?
 

tererun

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You need help if that's how you think about things. That is not 'living a life' - that is 'altering how you perceive life'.
Everything that we are and do is because of our perception of the world. perceiving things from different directions is how you see the most and determine things properly.
Exercising, getting out of the house, relaxing in the sunshine, hanging out with friends, and doing all sort of non-mentally altered-state activities are the better way to enhance how you 'experience life' . . . What you're experiencing is 'fuzzy' and 'disorientation' and 'disassociation' as well as 'a disconnect' - that is not living.
What you are talking about are actions. You want to do things. I want to experience things. drugs directly effect experience. Don't get me wrong, that is why being high is bad for you, and I get that. You experience your life in the way you want to. You have the experiences you value. These experiences i have are those that I value. It is not just being fuzzy or disorientated. have you seen music? I have. Yes, i know technically what has happened, but that lead to a process of seeing music. Have you lived a thousand years in a day? Those are interesting feelings and ideas, and there are so many more. It is infinite. You think I am running away, but i am really playing with something. I am experiencing something. I am fine with your judging me poorly and not thinking my highs are anything but make believe tom foolery. But if I am having fun doing it what is wrong with it?
Not my issue that you think that's 'fun' and 'mental exploration' (which is a load of bull in and of itself - you cannot explore your mind while you fry your synapses.)
BTW synapses are technically spaces between neurons. You cannot really fry nothing. I am not asking you to believe in it. I am just saying I am enjoying it, and that enjoyment is real. what is the problem?
 

Captain Adverse

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I always want people to be in control of their selves, fully aware of what's going on and what they are doing while they're interacting with others - when they're not, problems can and do happen. Do they always happen? No. But being under a seriously altered state shouldn't be a mission that one aims to achieve.

I don't buy into the concept that "feeling good" means "having an altered state of consciousness" - I don't believe anyone who is a drug addict finds it to be "fun" and, further, I don't believe that they are truly "relaxed."

The "I want to self medicate" argument is the exact thing that will NOT further anyone's efforts to do drugs.

If someone needs to "feel good" by "altering their state of awareness and consciousness" and that is "more appealing that being sober" - they need to seek therapy and learn how to cope with something called "being a living person." It's disturbing that so many people don't want to be in-tune and aware. Is life really that bad? If so - seek help. Have problems - getting high won't fix them or improve your quality of life.
The problem with your position is, not everyone who uses drugs is an "addict." In fact I would venture to say that most people who use certain drugs are NOT addicted to them. For example, hallucinogens, MDMA, and pot; they are fun but not physically addicting although some users can develop a mental dependence on them. Conversely, recall that both alcohol and cigarettes ARE physically addicting, and both perfectly legal.

Then there are drugs which are physically addicting, like the opiates (opium, heroin, morphine, etc.). They are not only addicting but physically debilitating. However, they do require a few repeated uses before the addiction takes hold.

Then you have cocaine (including crack) and Methamphetimine. There is a question surrounding their physical addictiveness, but no question that frequent use is physically debilitating and mentally addicting.

Still, just because you don't buy into the "concept," the fact remains people who use "feel good about having an altered state of consciousness." Otherwise they wouldn't keep using after the first experience. They don't necessarily need "therapy" either. Sober people have their own methods of feeling good, like maybe overeating ice cream, drinking lots of coffee, eating lots of chocolate...all of which can lead to obesity, diabetes, etc.

The point is that everyone should have the right to choose their "poison" and then live with the negative effects, if any. In many cases with the non-addictive drugs, as the OP states there really isn't much downside.
 

tererun

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The problem is that it's so easy to get that feeling. You don't have to put any effort or thought into it. Yeah, it's groovy and all that but it's also a gigantic crutch to get to that blissed out state that we all need some times.

That is a statement that needs some crutches. First off, where is it written that a good feeling has to be hard to come by? I am going to tell you masturbation is a good feeling and it is real cheap and easy. You have personal responsibility so you need to get up and cannot sit and jerk off all day. I am not talking about that responsibility. Why is that feeling wrong? Because it is cheap? So if we made being high cost 100000 dollars it would be ok? Then it would be a good reward?

Don't get me wrong, I've probably sucked down a dumptruck full of the stuff over the years but to achieve that state via social interaction or meditation is just as rewarding without any of the negative effects.
Ok, so you are saying it is possible to do both. What is wrong with doing it the cheap way? Why does it have to be hard?
 

Captain Adverse

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The problem is that it's so easy to get that feeling. You don't have to put any effort or thought into it. Yeah, it's groovy and all that but it's also a gigantic crutch to get to that blissed out state that we all need some times.

Don't get me wrong, I've probably sucked down a dumptruck full of the stuff over the years but to achieve that state via social interaction or meditation is just as rewarding without any of the negative effects.
Perhaps, but at least you came to your own conclusions after having experienced what you no longer choose to do. Many people come to the same conclusion, I know I have. But I'm perfectly willing to grant others the right to have such experiences too.
 

grip

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You need help if that's how you think about things. That is not 'living a life' - that is 'altering how you perceive life'.

Exercising, getting out of the house, relaxing in the sunshine, hanging out with friends, and doing all sort of non-mentally altered-state activities are the better way to enhance how you 'experience life' . . . What you're experiencing is 'fuzzy' and 'disorientation' and 'disassociation' as well as 'a disconnect' - that is not living.

Not my issue that you think that's 'fun' and 'mental exploration' (which is a load of bull in and of itself - you cannot explore your mind while you fry your synapses.)
I agree for the most part that a severely and perpetually altered state of consciousness induced by chemicals is generally not a healthy thing for the individual or anyone around them. If someones mental processes are causing them that much pain and dysfunctional behavior there are usually better prescribed meds for that purpose. But there are a host of reasons for someone as tererun says to "experience life" from their experimenting with illicit drugs. It has to remain a personal choice for people to learn and grow from. Sometimes they're just young and finding things out for themselves or a person may need a temporary break from the stress of their particular circumstances and mental imbalances.

I've had enough personal experiences with booze and drugs to find that habitual use for me at this stage is not a benefactor. But someone who really does drink socially or use marijuana medicinally or other mild substances without chronic abuse might have a perception of increased happiness and who is anyone to deny them?
 

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I understand there are negative indirect problems with being high. I am asking what are the actual problems with feeling good, having an altered state of consciousness, feeling relaxed, and having fun? Yes, people can do bad things with drugs, but they can also do good things. There are lots of people who use drugs for fun and pay taxes, do their jobs, live their lives, and make the world a better place with their presence. I want to know why is it wrong to be high. I know the mistakes one can make or the problems that come from certain substances, but I want to know why someone being high pisses others off so much.
If someone is getting high on something that's non-addictive, I don't think there's a thing wrong with it -- as long as they aren't hurting others -- like driving high or watching kids high or performing their jobs high. We alter our consciousness all the time with legal substances: alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, etc.

When we venture into the realm of addictive substances, then I think there's something wrong with it. Addiction leads to degradation...eventually. That old 1 is too many and 1,000 aren't enough.

Tobacco is such an addictive substance that I sincerely wish it were illegal. Too bad.
 

Grand Mal

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You need help if that's how you think about things. That is not 'living a life' - that is 'altering how you perceive life'.

Exercising, getting out of the house, relaxing in the sunshine, hanging out with friends, and doing all sort of non-mentally altered-state activities are the better way to enhance how you 'experience life' . . . What you're experiencing is 'fuzzy' and 'disorientation' and 'disassociation' as well as 'a disconnect' - that is not living.

Not my issue that you think that's 'fun' and 'mental exploration' (which is a load of bull in and of itself - you cannot explore your mind while you fry your synapses.)
It's recreation, not a lifestyle. Properly done.
I was a child of the 60's and 70's and there was a time when I eagerly sought out drugs for their recreational value. Mescaline was my favourite for the deep, smiling mellow feeling. LSD was a sure cure for boredom, speed made me talk, talk, talk, trying to keep up with my mind. It was all wonderful.
I left drugs behind, not because I decided to but just that's how my life developed. I never felt that drugs were a negative- I was always able to function socially and physically and today, 30 years after, I neither regret the experiences nor want to do it again.
 

specklebang

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Certain drugs at certain times for certain people can be entirely positive. Drugs are always judged by its failures, not by its successes. Just as with anything in life, risks and rewards. Some of our gratest literature and other entertainment has been based on drug use for inspiration. So, it's certainly something that should be a personal decision.

The enduring legality of alcohol makes this entire anti-drug thing seem absurd. A nasty addicting drug that really, really, really alters your perceptions. Add to the list tobacco, which has no redeeming value at all. All you get to do is feed your addiction at great expense. Indeed, examine those two and many other drugs seem benign by comparison.
 

tererun

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If someone is getting high on something that's non-addictive, I don't think there's a thing wrong with it -- as long as they aren't hurting others -- like driving high or watching kids high or performing their jobs high. We alter our consciousness all the time with legal substances: alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, etc.

When we venture into the realm of addictive substances, then I think there's something wrong with it. Addiction leads to degradation...eventually. That old 1 is too many and 1,000 aren't enough.

Tobacco is such an addictive substance that I sincerely wish it were illegal. Too bad.
I know why it is bad to be addicted, but I am trying to get down to what exactly is so wrong with the actual state of being high.
 

tererun

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Certain drugs at certain times for certain people can be entirely positive. Drugs are always judged by its failures, not by its successes. Just as with anything in life, risks and rewards. Some of our gratest literature and other entertainment has been based on drug use for inspiration. So, it's certainly something that should be a personal decision.

The enduring legality of alcohol makes this entire anti-drug thing seem absurd. A nasty addicting drug that really, really, really alters your perceptions. Add to the list tobacco, which has no redeeming value at all. All you get to do is feed your addiction at great expense. Indeed, examine those two and many other drugs seem benign by comparison.
In older societies experienced shamans would guide a person or people through the process and celebrate it. Now we try to make the high seem like a bad thing. It is an experience like no other you can have here on earth in some cases. What is wrong with being that way?
 

specklebang

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In older societies experienced shamans would guide a person or people through the process and celebrate it. Now we try to make the high seem like a bad thing. It is an experience like no other you can have here on earth in some cases. What is wrong with being that way?
No doubt you have already read DOWN THE DIGESTIVE SYSTEM AND INTO THE COSMOS WITH MANTRA, TANTRA AND SPECKLEBANG and you grok Specklebang, so I'm sure you realize that I might have bumped into a Shaman or two.

As long as you remember to look at the objects and not be in them, drugs have their moments.
 

tererun

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Paschendale

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There are fundamentally no differences between the dopamine rush you get from drugs and the one you get from sex. Just like the excitement of a scary movie, or when your team scores a goal. Sure, misuse of anything can be harmful. But it's silly to condemn one and praise the other.
 

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You need help if that's how you think about things. That is not 'living a life' - that is 'altering how you perceive life'.

Exercising, getting out of the house, relaxing in the sunshine, hanging out with friends, and doing all sort of non-mentally altered-state activities are the better way to enhance how you 'experience life' . . . What you're experiencing is 'fuzzy' and 'disorientation' and 'disassociation' as well as 'a disconnect' - that is not living.

Not my issue that you think that's 'fun' and 'mental exploration' (which is a load of bull in and of itself - you cannot explore your mind while you fry your synapses.)
And what's wrong with altering how you perceive life? Your ideas and thoughts are shaped by your perception, are they not? Those feelings and perceptions last after the high is gone.

It isn't going to be useful to everyone, or necessarily forever even for those it is, but it seems like a perfectly valid way of experiencing life to me.

And why is wanting to get high once in a while mutually exclusive with going outside and getting fresh air? There are lots of hours in a day. I think there is time for both, wouldn't you say?

Do you ever drink? Eat sugar?

You fry your synapses just by the state of being alive. You can fry them with stress, or simply aging. Your synapses will burn out either way.
 

RabidAlpaca

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You need help if that's how you think about things. That is not 'living a life' - that is 'altering how you perceive life'.

Exercising, getting out of the house, relaxing in the sunshine, hanging out with friends, and doing all sort of non-mentally altered-state activities are the better way to enhance how you 'experience life' . . . What you're experiencing is 'fuzzy' and 'disorientation' and 'disassociation' as well as 'a disconnect' - that is not living.

Not my issue that you think that's 'fun' and 'mental exploration' (which is a load of bull in and of itself - you cannot explore your mind while you fry your synapses.)
I think you're acting extremely judgemental. You've made up this cute little view of what YOU think life is, and are trying to say that anybody who does something different must have something wrong with them. I've been anti-social since birth. I'd rather spend time playing games online with friends than actually going out and doing stuff. Weed happens to enhance that experience and enriches my life. I use it wind down after a long day of work, exercise, and family responsibilities.

For you to jump in and tell us all that drugs can't enhance our quality of life is not only judgemental but also close-minded. Why don't you live your life, and we'll live ours?

And why is wanting to get high once in a while mutually exclusive with going outside and getting fresh air? There are lots of hours in a day. I think there is time for both, wouldn't you say?
Agreed. I live like 100 meters away from a nature preserve. I find getting high and walking through the trails in the woods is an amazing experience.
 

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:shrug: The question is "what is actually wrong with being high" . . . and I gave my view.

Don't agree with me? That's fine. I fail to see what's wrong with wanting others to be alert and aware.

As long as you don't try to push your view on society like it's some sort of standard norm and thus should be legal and legitimized, and even preferable - there's no debate, just differing opinions.
 

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:shrug: The question is "what is actually wrong with being high" . . . and I gave my view.

Don't agree with me? That's fine. I fail to see what's wrong with wanting others to be alert and aware.

As long as you don't try to push your view on society like it's some sort of standard norm and thus should be legal and legitimized, and even preferable - there's no debate, just differing opinions.

You did do that, thank you. I do not agree with your point of view on this and think you should probably look a little deeper, but you did answer my question.
 

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You did do that, thank you. I do not agree with your point of view on this and think you should probably look a little deeper, but you did answer my question.
To a small degree - I can see the appeal. The reality, though, is that it can have disastrous and widespread consequences that make it not worth it at all just like any other activity that seriously alters your perceptions or gives you a rush.
 
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