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What if

BDBoop

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Yes, I'd like to preface this by saying I fully expect to be called arrogant and etc. I just consider the source.
:2wave:
What if you couldn't make your usual talking points. Seriously - what if you couldn't say what you have already said on this board so very, very many times. What if rebuttal actually involved thinking, not reacting. Standing by your point, and owning it when somebody makes a successful rebuttal, instead of changing the subject and going on attack.

How many (at least two that I can think of) people wouldn't even be able to participate anymore?
 

MaggieD

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Yes, I'd like to preface this by saying I fully expect to be called arrogant and etc. I just consider the source.
:2wave:
What if you couldn't make your usual talking points. Seriously - what if you couldn't say what you have already said on this board so very, very many times. What if rebuttal actually involved thinking, not reacting. Standing by your point, and owning it when somebody makes a successful rebuttal, instead of changing the subject and going on attack.

How many (at least two that I can think of) people wouldn't even be able to participate anymore?
When I start to read abortion threads here, I go nutz! Zygots. Give me a break. I see most people taking a stand and refusing to be swayed by even FACTS much less someone's canned argument they picked up from internet talking points.

I think many people on DP (or any other debate forum) are there playing a game. Where we might learn, I think most of us are here to TEACH. My way or the highway. And I think most people are on a tangled freeway mess.

Some of the best posts I read here are those written right from the heart -- and you can recognize them right away. Those with "canned arguments" on the big issues, abortion being one, are parroting talking points rather than their own convictions. I'd like to read more of THOSE.
 

mac

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Yes, I'd like to preface this by saying I fully expect to be called arrogant and etc. I just consider the source.
:2wave:
What if you couldn't make your usual talking points. Seriously - what if you couldn't say what you have already said on this board so very, very many times. What if rebuttal actually involved thinking, not reacting. Standing by your point, and owning it when somebody makes a successful rebuttal, instead of changing the subject and going on attack.

How many (at least two that I can think of) people wouldn't even be able to participate anymore?
What if the same applied to you? You're leading with an attack on anyone that disagrees with you and calling for thought?
 

BDBoop

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Sorry, that's one of your typical talking points. Try another. Actually think about the original post as it applies to you and your posting style. As for me, I have already been doing so.

What if the same applied to you? You're leading with an attack on anyone that disagrees with you and calling for thought?
 

Josie

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Yes, I'd like to preface this by saying I fully expect to be called arrogant and etc. I just consider the source.
:2wave:
What if you couldn't make your usual talking points. Seriously - what if you couldn't say what you have already said on this board so very, very many times. What if rebuttal actually involved thinking, not reacting. Standing by your point, and owning it when somebody makes a successful rebuttal, instead of changing the subject and going on attack.

How many (at least two that I can think of) people wouldn't even be able to participate anymore?
I'm thinking this has nothing to do with the topic of Abortion and is just an attack on others.
 

BDBoop

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Really? You don't see any pro-choicers doing the activity I stated in the first post?

I'm thinking this has nothing to do with the topic of Abortion and is just an attack on others.
 

Josie

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Really? You don't see any pro-choicers doing the activity I stated in the first post?
How is that relevant? We discuss the topic of Abortion here, not how people respond, think, react, etc.
 

BDBoop

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Fine. Stop answering, the thread will die.

How is that relevant? We discuss the topic of Abortion here, not how people respond, think, react, etc.
 

mac

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Sorry, that's one of your typical talking points. Try another. Actually think about the original post as it applies to you and your posting style. As for me, I have already been doing so.
lol, what?
 

jallman

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Yes, I'd like to preface this by saying I fully expect to be called arrogant and etc. I just consider the source.
:2wave:
What if you couldn't make your usual talking points. Seriously - what if you couldn't say what you have already said on this board so very, very many times. What if rebuttal actually involved thinking, not reacting. Standing by your point, and owning it when somebody makes a successful rebuttal, instead of changing the subject and going on attack.

How many (at least two that I can think of) people wouldn't even be able to participate anymore?
It's never going to happen with some of these people. Thinking is too much of a chore and they can't be bothered. Yet, they're attention whores and feel the board can't go on without their daily contribution of regurgitated pundit-speak from the night before. :shrug:
 

Mensch

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Yes, I'd like to preface this by saying I fully expect to be called arrogant and etc. I just consider the source.
:2wave:
What if you couldn't make your usual talking points. Seriously - what if you couldn't say what you have already said on this board so very, very many times. What if rebuttal actually involved thinking, not reacting. Standing by your point, and owning it when somebody makes a successful rebuttal, instead of changing the subject and going on attack.

How many (at least two that I can think of) people wouldn't even be able to participate anymore?
I have a different frustration with debate, in general. I can't stand it when people continue to deny facts and figures, and continue to debate from the heart rather than the head. We don't need more passionate ideology. We need more reason and more responsibility.
 

Tucker Case

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Yes, I'd like to preface this by saying I fully expect to be called arrogant and etc. I just consider the source.
:2wave:
What if you couldn't make your usual talking points. Seriously - what if you couldn't say what you have already said on this board so very, very many times. What if rebuttal actually involved thinking, not reacting. Standing by your point, and owning it when somebody makes a successful rebuttal, instead of changing the subject and going on attack.

How many (at least two that I can think of) people wouldn't even be able to participate anymore?
I don't have any "usual" talking points. Most of mine are pretty unusual.

And I try to always address the argument that has been presented, and I especially enjoy someone who takes a novel approach to the debate.
 

BDBoop

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If they were actors, we'd refer to their style as "calling it in". <G>


It's never going to happen with some of these people. Thinking is too much of a chore and they can't be bothered. Yet, they're attention whores and feel the board can't go on without their daily contribution of regurgitated pundit-speak from the night before. :shrug:
 

mac

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It's never going to happen with some of these people. Thinking is too much of a chore and they can't be bothered. Yet, they're attention whores and feel the board can't go on without their daily contribution of regurgitated pundit-speak from the night before. :shrug:
not you though....right?
 

mac

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I invite to demonstrate where that may be a problem with my posting habits. :shrug:
Can you fill in the missing words so I might answer the right question?
 

jallman

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Can you fill in the missing words so I might answer the right question?
oooh, I get it. you think you're clever cuz you caught a typo. oh my you must be so proud of that accomplishment. :thumbs:
 

mac

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oooh, I get it. you think you're clever cuz you caught a typo. oh my you must be so proud of that accomplishment. :thumbs:
Weeding through your insults and condescention is hard enough, I thought I'd avoid further diffiulty in debating with you by getting your intended words straight before replying to them.
 

BDBoop

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I think if we all took a step back and made at least an effort to view each other as fellow humans, these conversations would then have a shot in hell at remaining civil.
 

CaptainCourtesy

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Moderator's Warning:
I don't see how this relates to Abortion. Moved to General Politics.
 

imagep

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Yes, I'd like to preface this by saying I fully expect to be called arrogant and etc. I just consider the source.
:2wave:
What if you couldn't make your usual talking points. Seriously - what if you couldn't say what you have already said on this board so very, very many times. What if rebuttal actually involved thinking, not reacting. Standing by your point, and owning it when somebody makes a successful rebuttal, instead of changing the subject and going on attack.

How many (at least two that I can think of) people wouldn't even be able to participate anymore?
Im not sure I understand. Are you suggesting that one could only make the same arguement once and then you would have to think up something new? If that were the case, I would think that this forum would rapidly die because few people are capable of thinking of more than one set of arguements per issue.


What if everyone were only alowed to present an arguement on one side of an issue? Like if everyone had to be "pro-life"? It would be very dull, but I bet a ton of like minded people would flock to this site to "teach" pro-life retoric to pro-lifers. Not that it would accomplish anything, but like minded people like to hang out together. It would be the pro-life lovefest site. I am severely hated on another forum because my views tend to be contrary to the vast majority of the posters there. If I post anything there I will get tons of flaims and hate-posts. I really don't know why ANYONE bothers to post there, if you happen to think like they do, then why post about it, if you dont happen to think like they do you will be threatened, called names, etc.

Here is what I want to know, has anyone ever really changed their mind on anything ever discussed on this forum? Other than me, I mean. I will admit that after seeing several sides to an arguement, I have wised up and moved my ideas in a different direction.
 
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BDBoop

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Rebuttal can only be presented as rebuttal so many times. Once the rebuttal has been rebutted, I think a whole ton of people on both sides would - okay.

Several years ago, I added a standard to my posting style. If somebody just kept coming back at me, I'd ask myself "are you saying anything new or different, or are you just repeating yourself. Because they already heard/read that. If you can't add or improve, then be the bigger person and walk away."

Im not sure I understand. Are you suggesting that one could only make the same arguement once and then you would have to think up something new? If that were the case, I would think that this forum would rapidly die because few people are capable of thinking of more than one set of arguements per issue.


What if everyone were only alowed to present an arguement on one side of an issue? Like if everyone had to be "pro-life"? It would be very dull, but I bet a ton of like minded people would flock to this site to "teach" pro-life retoric to pro-lifers. Not that it would accomplish anything, but like minded people like to hang out together. It would be the pro-life lovefest site. I am severely hated on another forum because my views tend to be contrary to the vast majority of the posters there. If I post anything there I will get tons of flaims and hate-posts. I really don't know why ANYONE bothers to post there, if you happen to think like they do, then why post about it, if you dont happen to think like they do you will be threatened, called names, etc.

Here is what I want to know, has anyone ever really changed their mind on anything ever discussed on this forum? Other than me, I mean. I will admit that after seeing several sides to an arguement, I have wised up and moved my ideas in a different direction.
 

Geo Patric

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Several years ago, I added a standard to my posting style. If somebody just kept coming back at me, I'd ask myself "are you saying anything new or different, or are you just repeating yourself. Because they already heard/read that. If you can't add or improve, then be the bigger person and walk away."
how incredibly noble of you.

the facts are simple, betty (btw, my uncle for whom I am named used to draw that character);

the abortion debate has changed almost not at all since roe v wade.

opponents oppose it because it is sinful. overwhelmingly, opposition to abortion is religion based. many other arguments are made, but they are generally offered in order to place religion on equal footing with science ala 'creationism'.

the best argument the opposition has made is that SCOTUS essentially invented a right to privacy in RvW. they are right. personally, i thank them for it, but that it is not a 'straight line' reading of the Constitution seems true to me.

i will forgo editorializing.

underlying the pro-choice stance is the role of women in our economic-socio-political life. burdened with the responsibilty to have children or forsake either having sex or an active role in how our culture operates... well, the answer is pretty simple. the old chant that 'biology is not destiny' is only true if we refuse to let it be. again, there are lots and lots of corresponding arguments, but the reason that abortion is favored by most americans and overwhelminly by women is that it provides them a personal freedom comparable with men.

their fundamental argument is that a fetus is not a biological sovereign entity - is not an life separate from its mother. that argument holds up incredibly well.

and it is not true that no one ever changes their minds. i have had to do so on many positions. the 2nd amendment, for instance, clearly allows individual citizens to carry weapons. the 'well regulated militia' argument its opponents love (and that I used to recite) is exactly as the gun nuts say... baloney. it is very clear that the writers meant a militia no better regulated than those that fought along side Washingtons 'regulars'... hardly 'regulated' at all. that does not negate the fed and or state gov from regulating weapons, but it DOES keep them from restricting the right to keep them.

so.... we go on arguing it and arguing it because we wanna WIN! the arguments don't change. but, if I let YOU argue and stay silent, i stand to LOSE.... and i don't wanna.

yeah, it is as simple as that.

geo.
 
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BDBoop

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Noble? I laugh. :) More like knowing when to fold 'em.

I am responding to your post 666 .... hmmm ...

I am going to think on your last two lines and see if my brain comes up with anything else, but for now I do know that being right and having the last word does not perforce = win.



how incredibly noble of you.
 

Geo Patric

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I am responding to your post 666 .... hmmm ...
well, of course, wo would say things like that except The Antichrist?
I am going to think on your last two lines and see if my brain comes up with anything else, but for now I do know that being right and having the last word does not perforce = win.
he who laughs last, laughs best. the last man standing.... simple premise.
geo.
 
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