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What if Trayvon Had Been White, and the Shooter Black?

Wehrwolfen

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[real life example - same verdict]


By Michael Filozof
March 24, 2012

This is not an exercise in mere speculation. We know what would happen in such a case. There would be no white mobs in the street chanting "No justice, no peace!" There would be no whites holding a "million hoodie march" in New York City.

We know this because in fact, such an event occurred in 2009 in Greece, N.Y., a suburb of Rochester. Roderick Scott, a black man, shot and killed an unarmed white teen, Christopher Cervini, whom he believed was burglarizing a neighbor's car, with a licensed .40 cal. handgun.

There are many similarities between the Scott-Cervini case and the George Zimmerman-Trayvon Martin case in Florida. In both cases, there had been a spate of criminal activity in the neighborhood. In both cases, the shooters called 911 to report suspicious activity, yet chose to confront the unarmed suspects outside their residence and off their own property prior to the arrival of the police. In both cases, the shooters claimed that they felt threatened, and fired in self-defense. In both cases, local law enforcement applied relevant state law.

Scott was acquitted by a majority-white jury after claiming that the Cervini charged at him, putting him in imminent fear of his life.

In both cases, there had been a spate of criminal activity in the neighborhood. In both cases, the shooters called 911 to report suspicious activity, yet chose to confront the unarmed suspects outside their residence and off their own property prior to the arrival of the police. In both cases, the shooters claimed that they felt threatened, and fired in self-defense. In both cases, local law enforcement applied relevant state law.

Read more:
Articles: What if Trayvon Had Been White, and the Shooter Black?


Where was the gooood Rev. Sharpton and Jackson then. Oh, it was okay a black man shot a white guy. Happens everyday in the inner cities. But normally its black on black murder. That too is good for the NAACP, they can always blame it on the white man.
 

Paschendale

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Then Trayvon would probably still be alive. They both would be. That's the point.
 

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Then Trayvon would probably still be alive. They both would be. That's the point.
That isn't the point at all. And I am I sure you know that.
 

Gathomas88

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Then Trayvon would probably still be alive. They both would be. That's the point.

You clearly did not read the article. In 2009, a black man actually did shoot and kill a white teenager in self-defense after noticing suspicious behavior on the part of the teen, calling 9/11, and then choosing to confront him anyway.

Funny how I don't seem to remember there being any racial outrage over that case. :roll:
 

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[real life example - same verdict]


By Michael Filozof
March 24, 2012

This is not an exercise in mere speculation. We know what would happen in such a case. There would be no white mobs in the street chanting "No justice, no peace!" There would be no whites holding a "million hoodie march" in New York City.

We know this because in fact, such an event occurred in 2009 in Greece, N.Y., a suburb of Rochester. Roderick Scott, a black man, shot and killed an unarmed white teen, Christopher Cervini, whom he believed was burglarizing a neighbor's car, with a licensed .40 cal. handgun.

There are many similarities between the Scott-Cervini case and the George Zimmerman-Trayvon Martin case in Florida. In both cases, there had been a spate of criminal activity in the neighborhood. In both cases, the shooters called 911 to report suspicious activity, yet chose to confront the unarmed suspects outside their residence and off their own property prior to the arrival of the police. In both cases, the shooters claimed that they felt threatened, and fired in self-defense. In both cases, local law enforcement applied relevant state law.

Scott was acquitted by a majority-white jury after claiming that the Cervini charged at him, putting him in imminent fear of his life.

In both cases, there had been a spate of criminal activity in the neighborhood. In both cases, the shooters called 911 to report suspicious activity, yet chose to confront the unarmed suspects outside their residence and off their own property prior to the arrival of the police. In both cases, the shooters claimed that they felt threatened, and fired in self-defense. In both cases, local law enforcement applied relevant state law.

Read more:
Articles: What if Trayvon Had Been White, and the Shooter Black?


Where was the gooood Rev. Sharpton and Jackson then. Oh, it was okay a black man shot a white guy. Happens everyday in the inner cities. But normally its black on black murder. That too is good for the NAACP, they can always blame it on the white man.




Then,as Paschendale said, Trayvon would probably still be alive.
 

Excon

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Then,as Paschendale said, Trayvon would probably still be alive.

And that isn't the point, nor is it something one can claim by what was presented.

So stop with the absurdities.
 

Wehrwolfen

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Then,as Paschendale said, Trayvon would probably still be alive.

The truth is Trayvon is not alive but dead because he attacked and armed man who feared for his life.
 

reinoe

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This must be one of those cases being circulated by WND and Christian Science Monitor because I can't find any credible coverage of what happened with this case anywhere after a casual search. Many important details are being left out.

Scott already had his gun drawn. He said he told Cervini to stop, but the teen kept coming, so he shot him twice.

"I thought he did very well on the stand. I don't think the cross examination touched him one bit. I think he was very consistent and had been consistent from the beginning...that the only reason he shot his gun is because Chris Cervini was charging at him," said Scott’s lawyer, John Parrinello.
Most importantly, Scott subjected himself to cross examination because he wasn't lying. And this important gem...

He told Finocchio he was going to go across the street to tell his neighbor someone was trying to break into the truck. On the way there, Scott said he saw something - a person walking on the sidewalk. Scott pulled the gun out of its holster and chambered a round.
Scott didn't go out of his house looking for trouble unlike Zimmerman who got out of his truck for the explicit purpose of chasing Trayvon...oh wait, didn't Zimmerman change his story to getting out of the truck in order to look for a streetsign in a backyard...Oh I digress. Some important differences in the stories all the same.

http://rochester.ynn.com/content/to...scott-claims-self-defense-in-teen-s-shooting/
 
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Captain Adverse

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Well, if neither "concerned citizen" had attempted to confront either teen, but instead let the police handle the situation, then neither would have faced trial and both teens would probably still be alive.

Again, I am happy to accept the verdict in both trials, and do not consider either defendant "guilty" of anything except maybe over-zealousness. They had fair trials and I would treat them like any other citizen cleared of charges; as innocent.
 

trfjr

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[real life example - same verdict]


By Michael Filozof
March 24, 2012

This is not an exercise in mere speculation. We know what would happen in such a case. There would be no white mobs in the street chanting "No justice, no peace!" There would be no whites holding a "million hoodie march" in New York City.

We know this because in fact, such an event occurred in 2009 in Greece, N.Y., a suburb of Rochester. Roderick Scott, a black man, shot and killed an unarmed white teen, Christopher Cervini, whom he believed was burglarizing a neighbor's car, with a licensed .40 cal. handgun.

There are many similarities between the Scott-Cervini case and the George Zimmerman-Trayvon Martin case in Florida. In both cases, there had been a spate of criminal activity in the neighborhood. In both cases, the shooters called 911 to report suspicious activity, yet chose to confront the unarmed suspects outside their residence and off their own property prior to the arrival of the police. In both cases, the shooters claimed that they felt threatened, and fired in self-defense. In both cases, local law enforcement applied relevant state law.

Scott was acquitted by a majority-white jury after claiming that the Cervini charged at him, putting him in imminent fear of his life.

In both cases, there had been a spate of criminal activity in the neighborhood. In both cases, the shooters called 911 to report suspicious activity, yet chose to confront the unarmed suspects outside their residence and off their own property prior to the arrival of the police. In both cases, the shooters claimed that they felt threatened, and fired in self-defense. In both cases, local law enforcement applied relevant state law.

Read more:
Articles: What if Trayvon Had Been White, and the Shooter Black?


Where was the gooood Rev. Sharpton and Jackson then. Oh, it was okay a black man shot a white guy. Happens everyday in the inner cities. But normally its black on black murder. That too is good for the NAACP, they can always blame it on the white man.

here is the Florida case

Trevor Dooley (black) walked out of his suburban house Sunday afternoon, past his trimmed lawn and nice landscaping, to confront a boy riding a skateboard on the basketball court across the street. That's against the rules in this neighborhood, and Dooley, 69, was carrying a gun. David James,(white) 41, with 20 years in the Air Force, was playing basketball with his 8-year-old daughter. They played every Sunday. James stood up for the skateboarder, neighbors said. The men argued and got into a "physical confrontation," the Hillsborough County Sheriff's Office said. Then, in front of his daughter, James was shot dead. What authorities don't know is who pulled the trigger, or whether it was justified. The Sheriff's Office has not named Dooley as a suspect or charged him with a crime. When police arrived around 4 p.m., he was waiting with the dead man. He invoked his right to remain silent and called his lawyer. "We haven't named him yet as a suspect. I'm not going to say he's not," said sheriff's Col. Albert Frost. "We have various witnesses and various conflicting statements at this point to start with. Obviously, that doesn't help us. We're trying to sort out the facts and trying to determine what really happened." So Dooley went back to work Monday morning, driving a school bus loaded with kids
Aftermath of deadly shooting in Valrico leaves community bewildered | Tampa Bay Times


it took over two year before they finally decided to arrest Mr Dooley. where was the marches and the protest to have him arrested? where was the outcry from the media about a senseless killing that left an 8 year old with out her father that was gunned down infront of her

Fifty-six percent of violent crimes committed by blacks have white victims. Only two to three percent of violent crimes committed by whites have black victims. but we have the very rare case of a white shooting a black and the media and race baiters heads explode and they start foaming at the mouth and demand a lynching
 
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Paschendale

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You clearly did not read the article. In 2009, a black man actually did shoot and kill a white teenager in self-defense after noticing suspicious behavior on the part of the teen, calling 9/11, and then choosing to confront him anyway.

Funny how I don't seem to remember there being any racial outrage over that case. :roll:

Suggesting that your sole example is somehow indicative of a greater trend is really silly. In the time since, which kind of situation do you think happened more often? Armed people killing innocent white teens or armed people killing innocent black teens?

The truth is Trayvon is not alive but dead because he attacked and armed man who feared for his life.

Feared for his life because of a dangerous situation he created with his own actions. If I were going around scaring the hell out of people, I should fear justified retaliation as well. But that's why I don't fancy myself a vigilante and stalk people with a weapon.

Well, if neither "concerned citizen" had attempted to confront either teen, but instead let the police handle the situation, then neither would have faced trial and both teens would probably still be alive.

This. Very much so.
 

Gathomas88

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Suggesting that your sole example is somehow indicative of a greater trend is really silly. In the time since, which kind of situation do you think happened more often? Armed people killing innocent white teens or armed people killing innocent black teens?

It is not the "sole example." Several others have been provided in this very thread.

Furthermore, the vast majority of black murder victims in this country are murdered by other blacks, not whites. Whites are also far more likely to be the victims of the actions of black criminals than the reverse.

Your argument here is a complete and total load of race baiting tripe.
 

trfjr

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Suggesting that your sole example is somehow indicative of a greater trend is really silly. In the time since, which kind of situation do you think happened more often? Armed people killing innocent white teens or armed people killing innocent black teens?

Fifty-six percent of violent crimes committed by blacks have white victims. Only two to three percent of violent crimes committed by whites have black victims. lools like a trend to me. so how many whites need to die from black violence before it relieves your white guilt
 

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[real life example - same verdict]


By Michael Filozof
March 24, 2012

This is not an exercise in mere speculation. We know what would happen in such a case. There would be no white mobs in the street chanting "No justice, no peace!" There would be no whites holding a "million hoodie march" in New York City.

We know this because in fact, such an event occurred in 2009 in Greece, N.Y., a suburb of Rochester. Roderick Scott, a black man, shot and killed an unarmed white teen, Christopher Cervini, whom he believed was burglarizing a neighbor's car, with a licensed .40 cal. handgun.

There are many similarities between the Scott-Cervini case and the George Zimmerman-Trayvon Martin case in Florida. In both cases, there had been a spate of criminal activity in the neighborhood. In both cases, the shooters called 911 to report suspicious activity, yet chose to confront the unarmed suspects outside their residence and off their own property prior to the arrival of the police. In both cases, the shooters claimed that they felt threatened, and fired in self-defense. In both cases, local law enforcement applied relevant state law.

Scott was acquitted by a majority-white jury after claiming that the Cervini charged at him, putting him in imminent fear of his life.

In both cases, there had been a spate of criminal activity in the neighborhood. In both cases, the shooters called 911 to report suspicious activity, yet chose to confront the unarmed suspects outside their residence and off their own property prior to the arrival of the police. In both cases, the shooters claimed that they felt threatened, and fired in self-defense. In both cases, local law enforcement applied relevant state law.

Read more:
Articles: What if Trayvon Had Been White, and the Shooter Black?


Where was the gooood Rev. Sharpton and Jackson then. Oh, it was okay a black man shot a white guy. Happens everyday in the inner cities. But normally its black on black murder. That too is good for the NAACP, they can always blame it on the white man.
Did the black guy follow the white guy like Zimmerman did to Trayvon?
 

reinoe

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It is not the "sole example." Several others have been provided in this very thread.

Furthermore, the vast majority of black murder victims in this country are murdered by other blacks, not whites. Whites are also far more likely to be the victims of the actions of black criminals than the reverse.

Your argument here is a complete and total load of race baiting tripe.

You're wrong again. So far I've successfully debunked all examples provided by "several others". You're running on empty.

Jury finds Trevor Dooley guilty in manslaughter case | Tampa Bay Times
Black man found guilty after claiming Stand Your Ground.
So far it looks like Blacks are not treated equally when it comes to the laws in Florida. Trevor Dooley needlessly escalated the situation just like Zimmerman, there are disputes as to who started the fight just like with Zimmerman, but the Black guy gets convicted unlike Zimmerman.
 
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pbrauer

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Fifty-six percent of violent crimes committed by blacks have white victims. Only two to three percent of violent crimes committed by whites have black victims. lools like a trend to me
Which is totally irrelevant to this case.
 

trfjr

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Which is totally irrelevant to this case.

i will ask you the same question, how many whites need to die from black violence before it relieves your white guilt ?
 

Wehrwolfen

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Suggesting that your sole example is somehow indicative of a greater trend is really silly. In the time since, which kind of situation do you think happened more often? Armed people killing innocent white teens or armed people killing innocent black teens?



Feared for his life because of a dangerous situation he created with his own actions. If I were going around scaring the hell out of people, I should fear justified retaliation as well. But that's why I don't fancy myself a vigilante and stalk people with a weapon.



This. Very much so.

Were there complaints that GZ was scaring the people in the community? NO.
Was GZ concerned for the people in his Community? Yes.
Were there recent complaints of break ins within that community? Yes
Did TM look suspicious that night in the rain? Yes.
Did TM strike and break GZ's nose and attempt to bash his head into the concrete? Yes.
Did TM further attack GZ in MMA style? Yes.
Could TM have continued home and still be alive? Yes
He chose to close in on GZ and attack him, not the other way around.
Were burglaries reduced to a trickle after TM was killed? Yes
 
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Gathomas88

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You're wrong again. So far I've successfully debunked all examples provided by "several others". You're running on empty.

Jury finds Trevor Dooley guilty in manslaughter case | Tampa Bay Times
Black man found guilty after claiming Stand Your Ground.
So far it looks like Blacks are not treated equally when it comes to the laws in Florida. Trevor Dooley needlessly escalated the situation just like Zimmerman, there are disputes as to who started the fight just like with Zimmerman, but the Black guy gets convicted unlike Zimmerman.

You haven't "debunked" anything. So far we have one example of a black man shooting a white man and getting acquitted, and one case of a black man shooting a white man and being charged with manslaughter.

I don't see how race comes into the issue at all. In one case, the defendant's legal team was able to make a reasonable case for self-defense. In the other, they were not.

The jury responded accordingly.
 

trfjr

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You haven't "debunked" anything. So far we have one example of a black man shooting a white man and getting acquitted, and one case of a black man shooting a white man and being charged with manslaughter.

I don't see how race comes into the issue at all. In one case, the defendant's legal team was able to make a reasonable case for self-defense. In the other, they were not.

The jury responded accordingly.

it took over two year before Mr Dooley was charged. answer the question. where was the marches and the protest to have him arrested? where was the outcry from the media about a senseless killing that left an 8 year old with out her father that was gunned down infront of her
 

reinoe

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You haven't "debunked" anything. So far we have one example of a black man shooting a white man and getting acquitted, and one case of a black man shooting a white man and being charged with manslaughter.

I don't see how race comes into the issue at all. In one case, the defendant's legal team was able to make a reasonable case for self-defense. In the other, they were not.

The jury responded accordingly.
Not charged, convicted. Read it again. I know that reading for some folks is hard and just because "charged" and "convicted" both start with the letter "c" doesn't translate into them having the same meaning. You see, "charged" and "convicted" mean two different things in the English language. Please try to keep up.

For review here is the actual name of the article...
Jury finds Trevor Dooley guilty in manslaughter case

You do know what "finding guilty" means don't you? It's very different from being "charged".
 

Paschendale

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It is not the "sole example." Several others have been provided in this very thread.

Furthermore, the vast majority of black murder victims in this country are murdered by other blacks, not whites. Whites are also far more likely to be the victims of the actions of black criminals than the reverse.

Your argument here is a complete and total load of race baiting tripe.

No, my point is not about who is perpetrating crimes. My point is that black kids are dying, and the courts are letting their killers go. The message is clear. Killing black kids is okay, killing white kids is not. The race of the killer is honestly not relevant.

Fifty-six percent of violent crimes committed by blacks have white victims. Only two to three percent of violent crimes committed by whites have black victims. lools like a trend to me. so how many whites need to die from black violence before it relieves your white guilt

Fascinating. I've had the exact opposite statistic quoted at me many times on this forum, that most violent crime by blacks is on other blacks. That black on black crime is an epidemic. Which is it? It seems to change based on what point the conservative speaker (and it is always conservatives who try to make points about this sort of thing) is trying to make.

And I have no white guilt. I recognize my privilege, but I do not feel guilt for it. Sometimes I'm bothered by it, because neither I nor anyone else deserve such privilege. I would happily sacrifice it to be judged by my merits alone, and for others to be similarly judged. Sadly, we do not live in such a society today. But I certainly do not want white kids to die. I don't want any kids to die. That's the point. But we have an exception in this country, where it's okay when black kids die.
 

Gathomas88

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it took over two year before Mr Dooley was charged. answer the question. where was the marches and the protest to have him arrested? where was the outcry from the media about a senseless killing that left an 8 year old with out her father that was gunned down infront of her

A) Take it down a notch. I'm on your side (I think).

B) No, there rather obviously were not.
 
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