• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

What if the CRU hack was not a hack?

DarkWizard12

Conservative Independent
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
10,077
Reaction score
2,252
Location
Tyler TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent

Councilman

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Messages
4,454
Reaction score
1,654
Location
Riverside, County, CA.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
There is talk and I have no idea if it carries any validity that those responsible for the fraud could actually face prosecution. If that is the case then I would like see to charges brought against anyone who continues to perpetrate this HOAX as we know some already have done, including some in the White House I understand. They would be accessories after the fact.

This whole HOAX from the start was about money and control. Why else would the fake environmental movement protest the building of the very plants they were crying for just a few short years ago. Namely SOLAR and WIND generation. They know they go out of business if clean energy catches on in a big enough way that there is no longer reason to protest.

I feel kind of sorry for the poor stupid schmucks that got sucked into the belief that the HOAX was real. They thought they were really doing something good.

The same is going to happen to the fools backing the "Obama I Don't really Care About Your Health KIll Granny Plan" when they find out about the rationing and people dying waiting for treatment, because many doctors are talking about bailing.

Obama is a master at being able to use the truth as deception. Example claim the AMA backs his plan. Truth. Fact the members never voted their support. Fact fewer than 30% of doctors are members of the AMA. So a true statement is massively misleading. It's all from his training at manipulating it's the only thing he's any good at.

Obama and others are going to try to brush the truth aside and replace the exposed lies with new ones. Obama is the king of all liars to date, and he's not going to let this inconvenient truth slow down his thirst for power control and your tax money for one minute.

Obama will tell you a small truth to mask a huge lie. It's his style.
 

Middleground

Dam Epidamic
Bartender
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 15, 2005
Messages
26,066
Reaction score
12,020
Location
Canada's Capital
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Excuse me, I seem to be lost. I was in the Environment Forum, and suddenly, I am in Conspiracy Theories.
 

Renae

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
48,387
Reaction score
18,072
Location
San Antonio Texas
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
Excuse me, I seem to be lost. I was in the Environment Forum, and suddenly, I am in Conspiracy Theories.
What a GREAT idea, I move that all "pro-AGW" threads get moved down to tin foil hat land, because that's all they are now. The realm of fiction, the hoax has been exposed.

Finally MG, you've contributed to this forum positively.
 

Erod

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 28, 2008
Messages
15,356
Reaction score
8,095
Location
North Texas
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
Excuse me, I seem to be lost. I was in the Environment Forum, and suddenly, I am in Conspiracy Theories.
Global Warming is a conspiracy theory.

The emails are not.
 

Middleground

Dam Epidamic
Bartender
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 15, 2005
Messages
26,066
Reaction score
12,020
Location
Canada's Capital
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Global Warming is a conspiracy theory.

The emails are not.
How can it be a conspiracy theory when over 8 out of 10 American climate scientists believe that human activity contributes to global warming? :confused:
 

DarkWizard12

Conservative Independent
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Messages
10,077
Reaction score
2,252
Location
Tyler TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
How can it be a conspiracy theory when over 8 out of 10 American climate scientists believe that human activity contributes to global warming? :confused:
because only 2 out of 10 american climate scientists are telling the truth?
 

Middleground

Dam Epidamic
Bartender
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 15, 2005
Messages
26,066
Reaction score
12,020
Location
Canada's Capital
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
BTW, I can't help but love the irony here.

Steve Milloy (from the Conspiracy Theory link):

Mr. Hoyt,

Shouldn’t Andrew Revkin haved recused himself from his Nov. 21 front-page article, “Hacked E-mail Is New Fodder for Climate Dispute“?

First, as Revkin briefly acknowledges in the article, he is part of the story. Isn’t it a breach of journalistic ethics for a reporter to report on a story of which he is part?
Yet the very same person has made claims that research done against secondhand smoke are wrong.

Milloy has criticized research linking secondhand tobacco smoke to cancer, claiming that "the vast majority of studies reported no statistical association."[13] In 1993, Milloy dismissed an Environmental Protection Agency report linking secondhand tobacco smoke to cancer as "a joke." Five years later Milloy claimed vindication after a federal court criticized the EPA's conclusions. However, the court's finding against the EPA was overturned on appeal.

When the British Medical Journal published a meta-analysis confirming a link in 1997, Milloy wrote, "Of the 37 studies, only 7—less than 19 percent—reported statistically significant increases in lung cancer incidence... Meta-analysis of the secondhand smoke studies was a joke when EPA did it in 1993. And it remains a joke today."[14] When another researcher published a study linking secondhand smoke to cancer, Milloy wrote that she "... must have pictures of journal editors in compromising positions with farm animals. How else can you explain her studies seeing the light of day?"[4]
Thing is, Milloy has strong ties to the tobacco industry. To steal a quote, "Shouldn't he have rescused himself?"


While at FoxNews.com, Milloy has continued to criticize claims that secondhand tobacco smoke causes cancer.[3] However, with the release of confidential tobacco industry documents as part of the Tobacco Master Settlement Agreement, the objectivity of Milloy's stance on secondhand smoke has been questioned. Based on this documentation, journalists Paul D. Thacker and George Monbiot, as well as the Union of Concerned Scientists and others, have contended that Milloy is a paid advocate for the tobacco industry.[3][5][15]

Milloy's junkscience.com website was reviewed and revised by a public relations firm hired by the R. J. Reynolds Tobacco Company.[16] Milloy also worked as executive director of The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition (TASSC), a "front group" established in 1993 by Philip Morris and its public relations firm "to expand and assist Philip Morris in its efforts with issues in targeted states."[3][17][18] Philip Morris memos describe "utilizing TASSC as a tool in targeted legislative battles";[19] a 1994 Philip Morris memo listed TASSC among its "Tools to Affect Legislative Decisions".[20] According to its 1997 annual report, TASSC "sponsored" junkscience.com.[21]

The New Republic reported that Milloy, who is presented by Fox News as an independent journalist, was under contract to provide consulting services to Philip Morris through the end of 2005.[3] In 2000 and 2001, for example, Milloy received a total of $180,000 in payments from Philip Morris for consulting services.[22] A spokesperson for Fox News stated, "Fox News was unaware of Milloy's connection with Philip Morris. Any affiliation he had should have been disclosed."[3] Milloy's association with the Cato Institute ended shortly afterwards; however, as of March 2008[update], he continues to write for FoxNews.com, where he is described as a "junk science expert."[23] Monbiot wrote: "Even after Fox News was told about the money [Milloy] had been receiving from Philip Morris and Exxon, it continued to employ him, without informing its readers about his interests."[24] Thacker wrote:

Objective viewers long ago realized that Fox News has a political agenda. But, when a pundit promotes this agenda while on the take from corporations that benefit from it, then Fox News has gone one disturbing step further.[3]
The American Nonsmokers' Rights Foundation (no-smoke.org) similarly stated that "...Milloy has made it his life’s work to deny scientific studies conducted and published by the world’s most reputable and credible scientific agencies... and label their objective evidence as 'junk science'. Milloy has a lucrative and lengthy relationship with the tobacco industry."[25]

I bolded Fox News, just for you, Sir Loin. ;-)

So in light of all of that, how can anyone take anything this man says/writes in a serious fashion? He's a joke.

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Milloy]Steven Milloy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]
 

Sir Loin

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
3,249
Reaction score
1,055
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
What a GREAT idea, I move that all "pro-AGW" threads get moved down to tin foil hat land, because that's all they are now. The realm of fiction, the hoax has been exposed.

Finally MG, you've contributed to this forum positively.
Except for the fact nobody brought up any kind of conspiracy..............lame arsed rationalizations are of course DOA. As has been pretty much everything you have posted in non stop knee jerk defense of the CRU story. For example, a week ago you were bleating about if these emails went back a decade. They do and so much for any idea of integrity in your posts on the same. Opps for you, again and again.

Besides as one of the most passionate AGW posters at DP, the idea that you could by now bring yourself to address the information is prime time clown time in nature IMO. You are and have been just too busy sticking your fingers in your ears and doing the internet equivalent of NYAH NYAH NYAH I CAN'T HEAR YOU OR ANYTHING WHEN I DO THIS NYAY NYAH NYAH THING. For the life of me, and as evidence piles up about you, I can't figure out the pay off in your bold faced denials and of course your GINORMOUS blinders.:roll:
 
Last edited:

BmanMcfly

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 3, 2008
Messages
12,761
Reaction score
2,321
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Except for the fact nobody brought up any kind of conspiracy..............
You do mean aside from the conspiracies that have been exposed by the leaked e-mail and software code (The software code's comments describing the functions to modify the data for the desired outcome)?
 

Renae

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Messages
48,387
Reaction score
18,072
Location
San Antonio Texas
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Conservative
Except for the fact nobody brought up any kind of conspiracy..............lame arsed rationalizations are of course DOA. As has been pretty much everything you have posted in non stop knee jerk defense of the CRU story. For example, a week ago you were bleating about if these emails went back a decade. They do and so much for any idea of integrity in your posts on the same. Opps for you, again and again.

Besides as one of the most passionate AGW posters at DP, the idea that you could by now bring yourself to address the information is prime time clown time in nature IMO. You are and have been just too busy sticking your fingers in your ears and doing the internet equivalent of NYAH NYAH NYAH I CAN'T HEAR YOU OR ANYTHING WHEN I DO THIS NYAY NYAH NYAH THING. For the life of me, and as evidence piles up about you, I can't figure out the pay off in your bold faced denials and of course your GINORMOUS blinders.:roll:

What in the makers name are you doing going after me like this son?
 

lizzie

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
28,581
Reaction score
31,550
Location
between two worlds
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Excuse me, I seem to be lost. I was in the Environment Forum, and suddenly, I am in Conspiracy Theories.
Just because it's a conspiracy theory, it doesn't mean it's not true, and just because I think they're watching me, it doesn't mean they're not.;)
 

Middleground

Dam Epidamic
Bartender
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 15, 2005
Messages
26,066
Reaction score
12,020
Location
Canada's Capital
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
Except for the fact nobody brought up any kind of conspiracy..............lame arsed rationalizations are of course DOA. As has been pretty much everything you have posted in non stop knee jerk defense of the CRU story. For example, a week ago you were bleating about if these emails went back a decade. They do and so much for any idea of integrity in your posts on the same. Opps for you, again and again.

Besides as one of the most passionate AGW posters at DP, the idea that you could by now bring yourself to address the information is prime time clown time in nature IMO. You are and have been just too busy sticking your fingers in your ears and doing the internet equivalent of NYAH NYAH NYAH I CAN'T HEAR YOU OR ANYTHING WHEN I DO THIS NYAY NYAH NYAH THING. For the life of me, and as evidence piles up about you, I can't figure out the pay off in your bold faced denials and of course your GINORMOUS blinders.:roll:
If Steve Milloy is all you have, then you are the one who's in serious denial.
 

Sir Loin

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
3,249
Reaction score
1,055
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
If Steve Milloy is all you have, then you are the one who's in serious denial.
That was so good a joke I actually laughed, strictly Vaudeville but funny none the less. As if this first bit of news about the not such a hack hack is "all" anyone has.

As you are engaged full time in the rejection of virtually everything that does not fit into your fervently faithfull POV on AGW, that must be a full time job too, and this story in particular, what was that you were saying o Cleopatra, Queen of Denial?:mrgreen:
 

Sir Loin

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
3,249
Reaction score
1,055
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
You do mean aside from the conspiracies that have been exposed by the leaked e-mail and software code (The software code's comments describing the functions to modify the data for the desired outcome)?
Actually that was meant for Middleground.:doh
 

lizzie

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Messages
28,581
Reaction score
31,550
Location
between two worlds
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Arghhh (slapping self on forehead), I've not been paying close attention and thought this is what you guys were talking about.

Meet Tom Wigley, the Climategate insider who may finally have choked on all the deceit he witnessed.
It is almost certain that the leak of 4000 documents from the University of East Anglia was not the work of a hacker but of a whisteblower. The sheer effort of retrieving, itemising and sorting all those documents, and of weeding out any that were purely personal or irrelevant, required someone who had not just the computer skills and the access, but who knew what was important, and had the motivation to put in countless hours of work.
If the leaker was an insider, here are the candidates - named and pictured. The list also shows the extraordinary reach of the University’s Climatic Research Unit into climate science circles when judged even just by formal ties.
Of course, I’m sure none of these people did leak the emails, which they would know is probably an illegal act and one likely to make them a pariah in climate science. So let’s rule out immediately the suggestion that any of these people did their duty to the public and blew the whistle on a colossal scam. I wouldn’t accuse them of anything so serious. I especially wouldn’t accuse Wigley of being a leaker.
But imagine if one of them had indeed realised that enough was enough, and too many lines had been crossed by the Climategate scientists- including criminal ones. Which one of them might have cracked, and decided to blow the whistle? Or put it this way, which of them showed the greatest evidence of an uneasy conscience - or a growing sense of seeing a wrong that needed righting?
Again, I rule out that any of these people actually did leak the emails. This is purely hypothetical - an exercise in trying to determine the most ethical and principled of the CRU staff and associates, as evidenced by the emails.
And I’m proud to say that for me the answer is a fellow Australian, Adelaide-born Tom Wigley, a senior scientist at the University Corporation for Atmospheric Research and a CRU Visiting Fellow.
Here are three examples of his frustration with Climategate scientists hiding data, fudging results, covering up, making “dishonest presentations”, and presenting “deceptive” proofs of warming. All these protests are from this year - and two from just the past two months. All show his frustration, even anger or possibly fear, at the scandalous deceit and coverups he was witnessing.
Of course, you may wonder why he didn’t go public with the serious concerns he was raising in these emails to his colleagues…
Climategate: Which one blew the whistle? | Herald Sun Andrew Bolt Blog
 

Sir Loin

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 17, 2007
Messages
3,249
Reaction score
1,055
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Latest follow up report on the so called CRU hack and the propriety of the NYT's Andrew Revkin’s reporting on Climategate.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/NYT'shttp://greenhellblog.com/2009/12/06/ny-times-watchdog-whitewashes-climategate/

A few excerpts:

Not to get off-topic, but there is no evidence of any hacking or theft of the e-mails. They were collected in response to a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request and were then stored on a public server -- inadvertently or not. Info stored on a public server is legally available to the public.


The most important revelation in the e-mails is IPCC muckety-muck Kevin Trenberth's admission that he doesn't understand energy flows in the atmosphere -- which means that there's no way he or anyone else can competently model the atmosphere. This is devastating.


They seem pretty upset in the UK -- CRU chief Phil Jones has had to step down. Penn State has announced an investigation of Climategater Michael Mann. Sen. Inhofe has requested an congressional investigation. Obama changed his Copenhagen plans after Climategate broke. I dunno... sounds like at least a five-alarmer to me.


 

Middleground

Dam Epidamic
Bartender
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 15, 2005
Messages
26,066
Reaction score
12,020
Location
Canada's Capital
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Progressive
So who's the whistleblower??? The suspense is just about killing me!!!!
 
Top Bottom