What happen when the good guy has a guy?

[OpportunityCost]

As I've said often here guns make killing far too easy and are very rarely used for defensive purposes

We don't have accurate reports on Defensive Gun Use or DGUs because in many cases they go unreported. You also cant count the number of cases in which a weapon is a deterrent.

Guns are nearly the only way the less physically capable are able to defend themselves from attackers who may be armed with a weapon of some sort. It evens the odds and makes them capable of self defense methods stronger than ever before. I refuse to disarm the most vulnerable in our society, especially when gun violence is decreasing and has been for decades.

Its never been about crime control, or public safety, its about control and making people more reliant on government.

 

[BretJ]

Who needs assumptions ? Your own FBI says only one in every 32 fatal shootings is of a defensive nature so I guess I must be a bit better informed than you about the 'real world' :wink:

Reading is fundamental as is basic math. You see but do not comprehend. Those numbers do not include incidents where 1. The bad guy survived (the word "fatal" is the key word in case you missed it��) and 2. It does not include incidents in which the firearm was used defensively without firing a shot. Your bigotry seems to override your basic language and math comprehension.

 

[BretJ]

As I've said often here guns make killing far too easy and are very rarely used for defensive purposes

Care to present stats to prove that assertion?

 

[BretJ]

Yes you guys all seem to have a personal story of gun heroism that justifies your obsessions. Sorry but I don't really believe that any such incident ever took place. :roll:

Believe what ever helps you feel better about yourself.

 

[flogger]

Guns are nearly the only way the less physically capable are able to defend themselves from attackers who may be armed with a weapon of some sort.

Even in Huntsville where I lived a couple of years such attacks were extremely rare. You guys grossly exagerrate fear of such attack simply to justify being armed to the teeth. I doubt you really believe any of the nonsense you come out with

t evens the odds and makes them capable of self defense methods stronger than ever before. I refuse to disarm the most vulnerable in our society, especially when gun violence is decreasing and has been for decades.

I suspect the odds are far more likely they will use such weapons for suicide than defence. Attempted suicide amongst this sub group is far higher than in normal society (for fairly obvious reasons) and a gun ensures such an attempt is far more likely to be successful

Its never been about crime control, or public safety, its about control and making people more reliant on government.

Given your figures it certainly isn't about safety :shock: No its about ego and fantasy. There are posters here have even admitted that having a gun somehow makes them more heroic.

 

[flogger]

Reading is fundamental as is basic math. You see but do not comprehend. Those numbers do not include incidents where 1. The bad guy survived

Nor does it include incidents where the good guy survived either and I suspect there are vastly more of those. Such incidents are massively unreported but there are an estimated 100,000 shootings each year where the victim survived according to medical research

 

[RetiredUSN]

Even in Huntsville where I lived a couple of years such attacks were extremely rare. You guys grossly exagerrate fear of such attack simply to justify being armed to the teeth. I doubt you really believe any of the nonsense you come out with



I suspect the odds are far more likely they will use such weapons for suicide than defence. Attempted suicide amongst this sub group is far higher than in normal society (for fairly obvious reasons) and a gun ensures such an attempt is far more likely to be successful



Given your figures it certainly isn't about safety :shock: No its about ego and fantasy. There are posters here have even admitted that having a gun somehow makes them more heroic.

Hey tuff guy, I like to see you take a few late night strolls through the rough parts of Norfolk Va, Newport News Va, or Richmond Va. Then get back to us about how well you were treated by the EMS on the way to the hospital.

 

[flogger]

Care to present stats to prove that assertion?

No problem .... again

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...illed-in-self-defense-34-innocent-people-die/

Visualizing gun deaths - Comparing the U.S. to rest of the world

Please note how uniquely disproportionate gun deaths are in the US vs the rest of the developed world yet fear guns as any kind of deterrent has done nothing to reduce other forms of physical assault.

 

[flogger]

Hey tuff guy, I like to see you take a few late night strolls through the rough parts of Norfolk Va, Newport News Va, or Richmond Va. Then get back to us about how well you were treated by the EMS on the way to the hospital.

Difference being that here I'm far more likely to survive a stroll through a rougher neighbourhood given its highly unlikely I will be shot. The real world isn't a Dirty Harry movie

 

[OpportunityCost]

Even in Huntsville where I lived a couple of years such attacks were extremely rare. You guys grossly exagerrate fear of such attack simply to justify being armed to the teeth. I doubt you really believe any of the nonsense you come out with

Irrelevant. You have no right to remove the capability of someone to defend themselves.

I suspect the odds are far more likely they will use such weapons for suicide than defence. Attempted suicide amongst this sub group is far higher than in normal society (for fairly obvious reasons) and a gun ensures such an attempt is far more likely to be successful

Fortunately what you suspect doesn't matter.

Given your figures it certainly isn't about safety :shock: No its about ego and fantasy. There are posters here have even admitted that having a gun somehow makes them more heroic.

Again, you have no right to disarm someone based on public safety when your solutions don't make the public more safe.

In before the cherry picked crime figures start.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Difference being that here I'm far more likely to survive a stroll through a rougher neighbourhood given its highly unlikely I will be shot. The real world isn't a Dirty Harry movie

It isn't Disneyland either...is it?

Wokingham is not like Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore, Philly, or other violent areas.

 

[Bergslagstroll]

You're going to base your views on a single video about a single incident?

I didn't instead I asked the question are there real evidence that people in countries with a lot of guns are good at handling a situation like a bad guy with a gun at their workplace, school or cinema? I also asked the question if having a gun in the house reduce the risk or increase the risk of domestic violence? That in western countries the biggest threath against ordinary citizens are domestic violence. Also I asked if they are statistics for active shooter events in areas there carrying guns with you are allowed. That in how many cases did you have a good guy with a gun stoping the shooter?

 

[flogger]

Irrelevant. You have no right to remove the capability of someone to defend themselves.

So do you feel that we are therefore defenceless because we cannot kill as easily as you want to be able to ?

Fortunately what you suspect doesn't matter.

Unfortunately within the US gun hugger community its the facts that don't matter

Again, you have no right to disarm someone based on public safety when your solutions don't make the public more safe.

The facts tell a different story as I linked earlier on post #33

In before the cherry picked crime figures start

I need no cherries given the avalanche of established facts that are all on my side

International Comparison '.org': Crime and Incarceration Statistics per Country

 

[flogger]

It isn't Disneyland either...is it?

Wokingham is not like Detroit, Chicago, Baltimore, Philly, or other violent areas.

Indeed. But I spent the first half of my life living in Kilmarnock recently voted the worst place to live in Scotland so I've seen both ends of the spectrum here when it comes to violence and nobody I know ever got shot

 

[Winchester]

Relevant... :lol:

 

[RetiredUSN]

Indeed. But I spent the first half of my life living in Kilmarnock recently voted the worst place to live in Scotland so I've seen both ends of the spectrum here when it comes to violence and nobody I know ever got shot

Kilmarnock is like Martha's Vineyard compared to the places I mentioned. The fact remains that whether or not you choose to own a firearm...... should remain your own choice..... not the governments.

To label gun owners like you do as being afraid, obsessed, nutters, paranoid, and Dirty Harry Wannabes ........is a intentional misrepresentation of who the lawful gun owners really are. Any right can be abused when people do not act responsible and we see it every day within all walks of society.

I find it very interesting that you enjoy knocking the Americans on gun issues, while not recognizing your own governments frightful limitations of a more basic human right called of free speech. What is it that your government fears from it's citizenry? Why is that the citizens like yourself are not fighting back?

 

[blackjack50]

Well it does make the point that your average US gun owner is nowhere near competent enough to deal with the situations they think they could and are most likely a liability to both themselves and those around them . The real world just isn't like TV

Not even a tenth of percent of gun owners ever hurt anyone with their guns. Your argument is invalid.

 

[flogger]

Kilmarnock is like Martha's Vineyard compared to the places I mentioned.

The fact is it would be just like the places you mentioned if guns were in the mix

To label gun owners like you do as being afraid, obsessed, nutters, paranoid, and Dirty Harry Wannabes ........is a intentional misrepresentation of who the lawful gun owners really are. Any right can be abused when people do not act responsible and we see it every day within all walks of society.

One only need read through a few threads to see that its certainly no misrepresentation of most who post here

I find it very interesting that you enjoy knocking the Americans on gun issues, while not recognizing your own governments frightful limitations of a more basic human right called of free speech. What is it that your government fears from it's citizenry? Why is that the citizens like yourself are not fighting back?

I've lived in the US have you ever lived here ?

 

[BretJ]

No problem .... again

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...illed-in-self-defense-34-innocent-people-die/

Visualizing gun deaths - Comparing the U.S. to rest of the world

Please note how uniquely disproportionate gun deaths are in the US vs the rest of the developed world yet fear guns as any kind of deterrent has done nothing to reduce other forms of physical assault.

View attachment 67201929

How do these numbers support your assertion that defensive gun use occurs rarely?

 

[BretJ]

The fact is it would be just like the places you mentioned if guns were in the mix



One only need read through a few threads to see that its certainly no misrepresentation of most who post here



I've lived in the US have you ever lived here ?

So you can puff up your chest and claim you have lived here and served in the military and we are expected to believe you. Yet you casually dismiss others experiences with defensive use of a firearm as fictitious. In other words, we are to believe your assertions yet we cannot expect you to do the same in return. You do not see an issue with character with that?

Of course you don't.....

 

[blackjack50]

So you can puff up your chest and claim you have lived here and served in the military and we are expected to believe you. Yet you casually dismiss others experiences with defensive use of a firearm as fictitious. In other words, we are to believe your assertions yet we cannot expect you to do the same in return. You do not see an issue with character with that?

Of course you don't.....

Well he did claim to have listened To automatic gun fire in Alabama. I can't remember which city. I think his nerves were just getting to him. I hear stuff that sounds like on fire every once in a while in my town. I think it's mostly just drunken college kids with firecrackers. Would hardly be different in an Alabama city.

 

[blackjack50]

The fact is it would be just like the places you mentioned if guns were in the mix



One only need read through a few threads to see that its certainly no misrepresentation of most who post here



I've lived in the US have you ever lived here ?

I've lived in the United States for almost 30 years. Never had a firearms related problem. What are you saying? I know more people who have died from drugs than guns. Actually I think I know more victims of stabbings than guns.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[OpportunityCost]

So do you feel that we are therefore defenceless because we cannot kill as easily as you want to be able to ?

There is no tool that levels the playing field as much as a gun. It allows a 100lb woman to defend herself effectively against an size attacker. I don't want to kill, but if I have to, I will. You seem to want to push some mindset at me that just isn't true.

Unfortunately within the US gun hugger community its the facts that don't matter

Gun hugger? Why don't you try without the name calling retardation.

The facts tell a different story as I linked earlier on post #33

As I said you picked JUST gun violence. As predicted.

I need no cherries given the avalanche of established facts that are all on my side

International Comparison '.org': Crime and Incarceration Statistics per Country

US incarceration statistics are more due to drug violations than gun violations. Thanks for not looking at data properly.

https://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offenses.jsp

46% drug offenses and far and away the biggest reason.

 

[Goshin]

I didn't instead I asked the question are there real evidence that people in countries with a lot of guns are good at handling a situation like a bad guy with a gun at their workplace, school or cinema? I also asked the question if having a gun in the house reduce the risk or increase the risk of domestic violence? That in western countries the biggest threath against ordinary citizens are domestic violence. Also I asked if they are statistics for active shooter events in areas there carrying guns with you are allowed. That in how many cases did you have a good guy with a gun stoping the shooter?

There have been studies but there are no hard statistics. By most studies, GG DGU's (good guy defensive use) exceeds criminal use by somewhere between 1.2 and 8x. Most of these involve no shots fired; perp sees gun and flees. To me that indicates much self-restraint and self-discipline on the part of the civilian GG.

I and a few other posters have, over the past year or two, posted probably a hundred or more videos and/or news stories where a civilian GG shot a criminal perp or two and did so without endangering bystanders or acting unlawfully. The stories are out there but they are not hyped in the national media like "bad" stories are.


The problem with looking for statistics is they are typically published by groups with an agenda and are not unbiased. You can find HCI studies claiming you're more likely to shoot yourself than a burglar, and NRA studies that contradict them. Statistics can be used to lie when manipulated by an agenda.


I prefer to go on my own personal experience, which is that there have been many times I was glad to be armed and at least a couple times I might not be here if I had not been. My extended family are almost universally gun owners and so are most of my friends... of the hundreds of gun owners I know, I know of none personally who have shot anyone unlawfully or by accident as a result of actions taken in a self-defense situation.

 

[RetiredUSN]

The fact is it would be just like the places you mentioned if guns were in the mix



One only need read through a few threads to see that its certainly no misrepresentation of most who post here



My wife is from Great Yarmouth.

Nice deflection on your own governments limitation on free speech.

Your fearful, and paranoid obsession about gun owners is just another example of how the UK has neutered it's male population.