What grade does the Brady Campaign give your state?

[TurtleDude]

Re: What grade does the Brady Campaign gibe your state?

Bah, I'm just firing back. I understand how now...I didn't before I asked though. The problem with it is, I am not so sure its an infringement I want to live without in some places. I am reserving judgment until I have a chance to think about it for a bit.

By the way, sorry I took your head off. Abortion talks...riled up...not distinguishing between friend and foe anymore...please accept my apologies.

my computer is moving real slow-I edited it but it took me five minutes
I was out of line

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: What grade does the Brady Campaign gibe your state?

Considering for a minute that books aren't used to kill people as much as guns are. How does this argument make a sense?

I think the reason some states ask gun owners to register what guns they own instead of what books you're reading is because if some reason one of them got into a argument went hot headed and decided he was going to kill the person he got into an argument with I'd doubt the first thing he'd say is :

"I'll do it with my Websters dictionary!".

If you own a gun and for some unforseen event want to kill somebody you're probably more likely to go for the gun then for Truman Capote's In Cold Blood. Just a thought.

did you know that those who cannot legally own guns are not required to register them?

people who kill people don't tend to follow silly gun control laws that are designed only to harass the law abiding

 

[jallman]

Re: What grade does the Brady Campaign gibe your state?

my computer is moving real slow-I edited it but it took me five minutes
I was out of line

Okay, so now that we are being level headed again :3oops:

Do you think it is too much of an infringement on our 2nd amendment rights to have to register firearms...especially in a city like New York.

I am a firm believer that no firearm bill is going to work for every state or even every area of a single state. Here in Alaska we got an F, but look at our population and what guns are used for. We definitely don't need the restrictions you would find in a metropolitan area...

What do you think should be done if anything?

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: What grade does the Brady Campaign gibe your state?

Okay, so now that we are being level headed again :3oops:

Do you think it is too much of an infringement on our 2nd amendment rights to have to register firearms...especially in a city like New York.

I am a firm believer that no firearm bill is going to work for every state or even every area of a single state. Here in Alaska we got an F, but look at our population and what guns are used for. We definitely don't need the restrictions you would find in a metropolitan area...

What do you think should be done if anything?

1) there is NO empirical data that registration prevents crime

2) THERE IS Empirical data that registration is a facilitating vehicle for CONFISCATION

3) there is mountains of evidence that those who want to confiscate arms all advocate registration as a tool to achieve confiscation

4) the US SUPREME COURT -US v Haynes 1968 held that felons are not required to register weapons since that violates the 5th amendment. Why impose a law that cannot even apply to the people who misuse weapons the most

5) registration is often accompanied by punitive taxation. schumer wants to charge people thousands a year for "arsenal licensense" if you own more than 1000 bullets or 20 guns

once again-there is no empirical data showing that registration improves public safety

 

[jallman]

Re: What grade does the Brady Campaign gibe your state?

1) there is NO empirical data that registration prevents crime

2) THERE IS Empirical data that registration is a facilitating vehicle for CONFISCATION

3) there is mountains of evidence that those who want to confiscate arms all advocate registration as a tool to achieve confiscation

4) the US SUPREME COURT -US v Haynes 1968 held that felons are not required to register weapons since that violates the 5th amendment. Why impose a law that cannot even apply to the people who misuse weapons the most

5) registration is often accompanied by punitive taxation. schumer wants to charge people thousands a year for "arsenal licensense" if you own more than 1000 bullets or 20 guns

once again-there is no empirical data showing that registration improves public safety

I don't pretend to believe that registration prevents crime. However, I do think that registration is key in solving crime. But then, I am no expert and I am only part of this thread to educate myself.

On point (5) of your post...I do not believe that registration should be accompanied by what you appropriately called punitive taxation. I base that on the fundamental idea that our rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights should not require payment to exercise them.

 

[Hatuey]

Re: What grade does the Brady Campaign gibe your state?

did you know that those who cannot legally own guns are not required to register them?

What does this have to do with your silly argument? I was trying to see why you would even compare guns registries to the goverment knowing who owns which guns.

people who kill people don't tend to follow silly gun control laws that are designed only to harass the law abiding

Again what does this have to do with your books and guns comparison?

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: What grade does the Brady Campaign gibe your state?

I don't pretend to believe that registration prevents crime. However, I do think that registration is key in solving crime. But then, I am no expert and I am only part of this thread to educate myself.

On point (5) of your post...I do not believe that registration should be accompanied by what you appropriately called punitive taxation. I base that on the fundamental idea that our rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights should not require payment to exercise them.

having been involved in law enforcement of some kind for 22 years I can tell you registration has little, if any use in solving crimes. People don't use guns traceable to them and if they do , the almost never leave the gun at the scene of the crime.

the evils that registration has been proven to cause is far far worse than the few crimes that may have been solved (and you cannot convict by just showing the beretta found in the bank robbery is traceable to joe smith-you have to prove he was there and used the gun) by it and the cost it imposes (see Canada)

 

[jallman]

Re: What grade does the Brady Campaign gibe your state?

having been involved in law enforcement of some kind for 22 years I can tell you registration has little, if any use in solving crimes. People don't use guns traceable to them and if they do , the almost never leave the gun at the scene of the crime.

the evils that registration has been proven to cause is far far worse than the few crimes that may have been solved (and you cannot convict by just showing the beretta found in the bank robbery is traceable to joe smith-you have to prove he was there and used the gun) by it and the cost it imposes (see Canada)

What is it about Canada that I should be looking for...can you give me some link or something that I can read over...remember, I am kinda dumb on this topic. :mrgreen:

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: What grade does the Brady Campaign gibe your state?

What is it about Canada that I should be looking for...can you give me some link or something that I can read over...remember, I am kinda dumb on this topic. :mrgreen:

canada instituted a gun registry that had little positive good but ended up costing the government and people millions more than promised. No I don't have a link since I am involved in this issue constantly I tend to know most of the factrs but its easy enough to find

 

[Jerry]

South Dakota is proud to hold a D rating.

 

[Hatuey]

Re: What grade does the Brady Campaign gibe your state?

canada instituted a gun registry that had little positive good but ended up costing the government and people millions more than promised. No I don't have a link since I am involved in this issue constantly I tend to know most of the factrs but its easy enough to find

What you've failed to mention is that Canada has a murder rate that would make Detroit and Washington D.C. laugh .

Canada's homicide rate, gun-related killings rise to highest level in decade - iht,america,Canada Homicides Climb - Americas - International Herald Tribune

Police services reported 658 homicides last year, 34 more than in 2004. Of these, 222 were committed with firearms, up from 173 the year before.

But it's still far lower than in mid-1970s, when the national homicide rate peaked at 3.03 homicides per 100,000 people. It has generally dropped since then, reaching a low of 1.73 in 2003. The 2005 rate was 2.04 homicides per 100,000 population.

 

[Gardener]

My state got a C minus.


I do have to say, though, that when platitudes are outlawed, only outlaws will utter platitudes.

 

[The Mark]

IMHO, all states should rate an "F-", or better yet, an "H" (even though that's not possible).

My state, Pennsylvania, received a D+......and here I thought we had too many gun laws already.......obviously, the people in charge of this website disagree with me.

 

[Goobieman]

Re: What grade does the Brady Campaign gibe your state?

Children are citizens too it would be a direct violation of our constitution if we didnt give them access to guns... besides who else is going to go on school rampages and kill those mean anti-christian/pro-sex education/liberal teachers.

If you dont want to have a legitimate discussion of the topic, then don't post.

Everyone knows that minors do not have the same rights as adults for reasons that should be obvious; the rest of your post is absurd on its face.

Maybe you think registration would have stopped any of the school shootings we've had -- how do you suppose that's the case?

 

[Goobieman]

Re: What grade does the Brady Campaign gibe your state?

Do you think it is too much of an infringement on our 2nd amendment rights to have to register firearms...especially in a city like New York.

Infringements are infringements.
Any infringement is "too much" when the Constitution says that the right shall not be infringed.

 

[Jerry]

Re: What grade does the Brady Campaign gibe your state?

Infringements are infringements.
Any infringement is "too much" when the Constitution says that the right shall not be infringed.

Rights are not absolute, and the state infringes on each to some degree.

The argument is over which infringements are acceptable and which are not.

 

[Goobieman]

Re: What grade does the Brady Campaign gibe your state?

Rights are not absolute, and the state infringes on each to some degree.

Rights, within their defintion, ARE absolute.

You cannot slander or libel because slander and libel are not part of "free speech". You cannot incite a riot because inciting a riot is not part of "free speech".

The argument is over which infringements are acceptable and which are not.

The Constitution says that no infringement is acceptable.

 

[Jerry]

Re: What grade does the Brady Campaign gibe your state?

Rights, within their defintion, ARE absolute.

You cannot slander or libel because slander and libel are not part of "free speech". You cannot incite a riot because inciting a riot is not part of "free speech".


The Constitution says that no infringement is acceptable.

Infringement is acceptable when there is a "compelling state interest" to do so, such as involuntary servitude.

 

[Goobieman]

Re: What grade does the Brady Campaign gibe your state?

Infringement is acceptable when there is a "compelling state interest" to do so, such as involuntary servitude.

When is involutary servitude acceptable?

And where does the Constitution make an allowance for a infringement of the right to arms based on "compelling state interest"?

 

[Jerry]

Re: What grade does the Brady Campaign gibe your state?

When is involutary servitude acceptable?

Prison of the duly convicted:
Amendment 13

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

And where does the Constitution make an allowance for a infringement of the right to arms based on "compelling state interest"?

The second amendment regards a well organized militia, not a full citizen military, therefore protected weapons are infantry weapons, not, for example, WMDs.

Therefore the state's interest is in preventing the development of a full private military within it's own borders.

 

[Goobieman]

Re: What grade does the Brady Campaign gibe your state?

Prison of the duly convicted:
Amendment 13

...Except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted....
What's your point? Jailing people for crimes is the result of due process, the standard necessary for removing people's liberties as set by the 6th amendment. Being jailed isnt an infringement of your right to liberty, as you lose your right to liberty once you are convicted of a crime.

The second amendment regards a well organized militia, not a full citizen military, therefore protected weapons are infantry weapons, not, for example, WMDs.

This isn't an 'allowance for infringement', its a discussion of the defintion of the right to arms, specifically, what arms are covered by the 2nd. Within that definition -- that is, as long as the weapons in question qualify as 'arms' -- the right cannot be infringed.

WMDs do not qualify as 'arms', and so there is no Constitutional issue with laws that forbiut their posession, require their rgistration, etc
Rifles, etc, DO qualify as 'arms', and so there IS a Constitutional issue with laws that forbid their posession, require their registration, etc

Therefore the state's interest is in preventing the development of a full private military within it's own borders.

Given that legitimate militia do not need any official attachment to the state, how can that be?

 

[TurtleDude]

Re: What grade does the Brady Campaign gibe your state?

What you've failed to mention is that Canada has a murder rate that would make Detroit and Washington D.C. laugh .

Canada's homicide rate, gun-related killings rise to highest level in decade - iht,america,Canada Homicides Climb - Americas - International Herald Tribune

and what you fail to understand (among other things on this issue) is that their gun registry didn't have anything to do with their low rate and US gun laws have had nothing to do with decreasing ours.

If you factor out black on black gun crime and suicide (the former being almost entirely a biproduct of PROHIBITION on drugs) and the latter being something gun laws have almost no effect upon (given Japan has a far higher rate of suicide than the USA and japan has maybe the most severe gun ban in the world) gun violence in the USA is very low

Btw Detroit and DC are two cities that have been run by anti gun dems for decades and DC has a total gun ban

 

[72_lemans]

Re: What grade does the Brady Campaign gibe your state?

Minnesota got a C-

 

[Dingodog]

Well I am a little disapointed, my state only got a D. I was hoping for an F but I guess you can't have everything.

 

[Jerry]

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