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what does the bible say about abortion? (1 Viewer)

Many learned clergypersons disagree with you:

RCRC - Clergy for Choice

"The Clergy for Choice Network of the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice is a national registry of clergy of all faiths who are dedicated to preserving reproductive rights and freedom for all.

Clergy for Choice believe that reproductive choice encompasses a wide range of issues, including access to safe and reliable family planning and contraception (PDF), comprehensive sexuality education (PDF), affordable childcare and health care, adoption services, and access to safe, legal, and affordable abortion service."

And many clergypersons disagree with other clergypersons. Fact is, that Christianity is based on the bible, not what someone says. So, one clergyperson says yes while the other says no, which one is right? Lots of bullshit interpretations are floating around about the bible. One site even quoted the bible and the text quoted didn't even exist! :roll:
 
What do these scriptures have to do with abortion?

Abortion is a lie. You, the pro-abortion crowd, exchange the truth for the lie. Verse 26 directly addresses such a lie committed by women. Mankind is the image and likeness of God, and when you deny that image with abortion--by killing this reflection of the Creator, you dishonor your body with the lusts of your heart.

The "wise" men you reference profess "wisdom" --but because they rely on their OWN wisdom, rather than the Eternal Word of God, they become FOOLS.
 
Abortion is a lie. You, the pro-abortion crowd, exchange the truth for the lie. Verse 26 directly addresses such a lie committed by women. Mankind is the image and likeness of God, and when you deny that image with abortion--by killing this reflection of the Creator, you dishonor your body with the lusts of your heart.

The "wise" men you reference profess "wisdom" --but because they rely on their OWN wisdom, rather than the Eternal Word of God, they become FOOLS.

Ummm... say what? :beam:
 
Please see post #46 above....more of the same desperate acting out.

What you said didn't make a lick of sense.
Unless I've got a brain tumor, or something.
Does anybody else understand the statement in question, and if so, would they be so kind as to interpret it for the rest of us lesser mortals?

Felicity: "Abortion is a lie. You, the pro-abortion crowd, exchange the truth for the lie. Verse 26 directly addresses such a lie committed by women. Mankind is the image and likeness of God, and when you deny that image with abortion--by killing this reflection of the Creator, you dishonor your body with the lusts of your heart.

The "wise" men you reference profess "wisdom" --but because they rely on their OWN wisdom, rather than the Eternal Word of God, they become FOOLS."


:confused:
 
What you said didn't make a lick of sense.
Unless I've got a brain tumor, or something.
Does anybody else understand the statement in question, and if so, would they be so kind as to interpret it for the rest of us lesser mortals?

Felicity: "Abortion is a lie. You, the pro-abortion crowd, exchange the truth for the lie. Verse 26 directly addresses such a lie committed by women. Mankind is the image and likeness of God, and when you deny that image with abortion--by killing this reflection of the Creator, you dishonor your body with the lusts of your heart.

The "wise" men you reference profess "wisdom" --but because they rely on their OWN wisdom, rather than the Eternal Word of God, they become FOOLS."


:confused:
Okay...Theology 101...

God is "life giving"--He is the Creator of all things.

Mankind was "made in the image and likeness of God."

If we are to image God, we need to reflect His likeness.

God is the Creator, NOT the Destroyer.

To image God, we need to be creators, not destroyers.

You destroy the image of God two ways in an abortion:
1) you destroy the life in the womb that is itself an image of God, and
2) you personally act against the image of God by being a destroyer rather than a creator of life.

By being a destroyer rather than a creator, you dishonor your body--the image of God.

You also dishonor God by choosing your will rather than His.



Grannie cited clergy who support abortion. They also dishonor God because they also choose their own will over God's and call it wise when in actuality it is a lie. Who is the Father of Lies? Who is it that in Genesis tempted Eve and told her that they could be like gods if only they distrusted God and choose their own will over God's? Who is spreading that same lie in our world today?
 
Many learned clergypersons disagree with you:

RCRC - Clergy for Choice

"The Clergy for Choice Network of the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice is a national registry of clergy of all faiths who are dedicated to preserving reproductive rights and freedom for all.

Clergy for Choice believe that reproductive choice encompasses a wide range of issues, including access to safe and reliable family planning and contraception (PDF), comprehensive sexuality education (PDF), affordable childcare and health care, adoption services, and access to safe, legal, and affordable abortion service."
Yeah, "clergy for choice" are about like "Child Molesters against perversion" or "gang-bangers for civility".

It's an oxymoron.

False prophets have always been around.
 
Yeah, "clergy for choice" are about like "Child Molesters against perversion" or "gang-bangers for civility".

It's an oxymoron.

False prophets have always been around.

Funny that you should mention it, false prophet is also an oxymoron.
 
Funny that you should mention it, false prophet is also an oxymoron.

I think its an oxymoron to certain people and not others.
 
Apparently the soul is there before birth...(a few OT verses...)

Job.3
[10] Because it shut not up the doors of my mother's womb, nor hid sorrow from mine eyes.
[11] Why died I not from the womb? why did I not give up the ghost when I came out of the belly?


Job.10
[18] Wherefore then hast thou brought me forth out of the womb? Oh that I had given up the ghost, and no eye had seen me!

Pss.22
[10] I was cast upon thee from the womb: thou art my God from my mother's belly.

Jer.1
[5] Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Well the Jews don't seem to think it does and they would know.
 
Well the Jews don't seem to think it does and they would know.
Throughout the OT the Jews are referred to by God as a "stiff-necked people"--meaning one who will not look upon the face of the Lord and rather rebels in an effort to follow his own path. Here's a couple of examples:

Exod.33
[5] For the LORD had said unto Moses, Say unto the children of Israel, Ye are a stiffnecked people: I will come up into the midst of thee in a moment, and consume thee: therefore now put off thy ornaments from thee, that I may know what to do unto thee.

2Chr.36
[13] And he also rebelled against king Nebuchadnezzar, who had made him swear by God: but he stiffened his neck, and hardened his heart from turning unto the LORD God of Israel.

Bar.2
[30] For I knew that they would not hear me, because it is a stiffnecked people: but in the land of their captivities they shall remember themselves.



It does not surprise me that many Jews still have "stiff necks" when it comes to submitting to the plan of God. If they were not so "stiff-necked", they might be Christian, recognizing the Messiah when he came.
 
Throughout the OT the Jews are referred to by God as a "stiff-necked people"--meaning one who will not look upon the face of the Lord and rather rebels in an effort to follow his own path. Here's a couple of examples:

Exod.33
[5] For the LORD had said unto Moses, Say unto the children of Israel, Ye are a stiffnecked people: I will come up into the midst of thee in a moment, and consume thee: therefore now put off thy ornaments from thee, that I may know what to do unto thee.

2Chr.36
[13] And he also rebelled against king Nebuchadnezzar, who had made him swear by God: but he stiffened his neck, and hardened his heart from turning unto the LORD God of Israel.

Bar.2
[30] For I knew that they would not hear me, because it is a stiffnecked people: but in the land of their captivities they shall remember themselves.



It does not surprise me that many Jews still have "stiff necks" when it comes to submitting to the plan of God. If they were not so "stiff-necked", they might be Christian, recognizing the Messiah when he came.

Hey, us Jews are tough. What's wrong with being so stiff-necked anyway?

Oh, and congrats on finding three verses of scripture supporting your point of view. How many verses are there that advocate the inferiority of your entire gender? (You can start with Leviticus chapter 20)

How many say to stone infidels to death?

If Christ was the Messiah, why haven't all the Christians been delivered into Heaven?

Mes·si·ah /mɪˈsaɪə/
–noun 1. the promised and expected deliverer of the Jewish people.
2. Jesus Christ, regarded by Christians as fulfilling this promise and expectation. John 4:25, 26.
3. (usually lowercase) any expected deliverer.
4. (usually lowercase) a zealous leader of some cause or project.
5. (italics) an oratorio (1742) by George Frideric Handel.


At least stiff-necked Jews (reform and conservative) recognize Biblical silliness when they see it.
 
And many clergypersons disagree with other clergypersons. Fact is, that Christianity is based on the bible, not what someone says. So, one clergyperson says yes while the other says no, which one is right? Lots of bullshit interpretations are floating around about the bible. One site even quoted the bible and the text quoted didn't even exist! :roll:


Christianity is based on belief in Jesus Christ, the Bible is only a guide to understanding.
 
Says you religious moderate, says otherwise a religious fundamentalist I say.

What are you talking about?
How is the person an American Protestant?
 
What are you talking about?
How is the person an American Protestant?

Who said anything about American Protestants?

I said that her opinion is that of a religious moderate, and not a fundamentalist. I then went on to say that fundamentalists would find her failure to adhere to scripture is theologically bankrupt.

Why do you keep butting in every time you don't understand the words people are using? I hate having to spell everything out for you.

Or do you feel that you HAVE to say something to me even, and challenge my claims, even when you have nothing to say?
 
Oh, and congrats on finding three verses of scripture supporting your point of view.
Obviously, you are a Jew unfamiliar with the Scriptures if you think those are the only verses that talk about your stiff-necks and/or the resistance your people demonstrated in following God's covenant. :roll:

How many verses are there that advocate the inferiority of your entire gender? (You can start with Leviticus chapter 20)
Oh yeah...like where? There is nothing in Lev. 20 that states women are inferior to men....more evidence of your "inferior" knowledge of your sacred writings.

How many say to stone infidels to death?
What's your point? Christians have a New Covenant with the Messiah.

If Christ was the Messiah, why haven't all the Christians been delivered into Heaven?
We have. Why do you think God has to do things the way you "expect" Him too? Elijah learned that God will do as God will and he will revel himself as He will. You who place expectations an Him are rebellious and throughout the OT the Jews were rebellious.
1Kings 19
11
1 Then the LORD said, "Go outside and stand on the mountain before the LORD; the LORD will be passing by." A strong and heavy wind was rending the mountains and crushing rocks before the LORD--but the LORD was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake--but the LORD was not in the earthquake.
12
After the earthquake there was fire--but the LORD was not in the fire. After the fire there was a tiny whispering sound.
13
When he heard this, Elijah hid his face in his cloak and went and stood at the entrance of the cave. A voice said to him, "Elijah, why are you here?"



Elijah had expectations as to how God would reveal himself--Elijah was wrong. God was in the still small voice after the raging tempests.
At least stiff-necked Jews (reform and conservative) recognize Biblical silliness when they see it.
For someone so unfamiliar with his own sacred texts, you sure speak as though you have some authority. Ignorance and stubbornness and hubris do not speak well for your ability to identify what is "silly."
 
Who said anything about American Protestants?

I said that her opinion is that of a religious moderate, and not a fundamentalist. I then went on to say that fundamentalists would find her failure to adhere to scripture is theologically bankrupt.

Why do you keep butting in every time you don't understand the words people are using? I hate having to spell everything out for you.

Or do you feel that you HAVE to say something to me even, and challenge my claims, even when you have nothing to say?

Says you religious moderate, says otherwise a religious fundamentalist I say.

You clearly "says otherwise a religious fundamentalist I say." What else would the statement mean?
 
You clearly "says otherwise a religious fundamentalist I say." What else would the statement mean?
I'm not following you here either, nes.:confused:
 
I'm not following you here either, nes.:confused:

nes is not an American, and doesn't understand that in America, "fundamentalist" is not synonymous with "protestant".
At least, that's my interpretation of the problem here.
 
Obviously, you are a Jew unfamiliar with the Scriptures if you think those are the only verses that talk about your stiff-necks and/or the resistance your people demonstrated in following God's covenant. :roll:

Maybe your religion's version of a covenant. Personally, I am a Jewish Atheist (in the pattern of Einstein and Jubal Harshaw).

Oh yeah...like where? There is nothing in Lev. 20 that states women are inferior to men....more evidence of your "inferior" knowledge of your sacred writings.

Sorry:3oops: wrong scripture. I was referring to this:

I desire, then, that in every place the men should pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or argument; also that the women should dress themselves modestly and decently in suitable clothing, not with their hair braided, or with gold, pearls, or expensive clothes, but with good works, as is proper for women who profess reverence for God. Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing, provided they continue in faith and love and holiness, with modesty. [1 Timothy, chapter 2]

What's your point? Christians have a New Covenant with the Messiah.

He wasn't incredibly nice to 'infidels' either(Although I suppose one could expect that). Most Christians are, indeed, New Testament people, but I could name a few radio and TV hosts that digress. One point for you.

We have. Why do you think God has to do things the way you "expect" Him too? Elijah learned that God will do as God will and he will revel himself as He will. You who place expectations an Him are rebellious and throughout the OT the Jews were rebellious.
1Kings 19
11
1 Then the LORD said, "Go outside and stand on the mountain before the LORD; the LORD will be passing by." A strong and heavy wind was rending the mountains and crushing rocks before the LORD--but the LORD was not in the wind. After the wind there was an earthquake--but the LORD was not in the earthquake.
12
After the earthquake there was fire--but the LORD was not in the fire. After the fire there was a tiny whispering sound.
13
When he heard this, Elijah hid his face in his cloak and went and stood at the entrance of the cave. A voice said to him, "Elijah, why are you here?"



Elijah had expectations as to how God would reveal himself--Elijah was wrong. God was in the still small voice after the raging tempests.
For someone so unfamiliar with his own sacred texts, you sure speak as though you have some authority. Ignorance and stubbornness and hubris do not speak well for your ability to identify what is "silly."

Is there internet access in Heaven? God really doesn't do what I expect, if Heaven really is on Earth. Since Christ was the Messiah to you, born to die for your sins and deliver you from them, why is there still so much sin? What exactly did Christ accomplish?

I do not think of myself as having "authority". However, silliness is in the eye of the beholder. There are many things in the Bible I find silly, such as the six-day creation, the inferiority of women to men, the Ressurection, etc. I speak of these as silly because there is much else in the Bible that I find sad (most of the Old Testament, for starters). However, most modern Christian beliefs, not following the OT, are only silly to me.
 
Is there internet access in Heaven?

Would it be Heaven, without internet access? ;)
 
Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing, provided they continue in faith and love and holiness, with modesty. [1 Timothy, chapter 2]

KJV said:
11Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

12But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

13For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

14And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

15Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

Line 11 says

let

let - Definitions from Dictionary.com
"1. to allow or permit: to let him escape."

the woman learn in silence

with
with - Definitions from Dictionary.com
"1. accompanied by; accompanying"

subjection
subjecting - Definitions from Dictionary.com
"Being in a position or in circumstances that place one under the power or authority of another or others"

In other words, ALLOW (let) the woman learn in silence with all subjection

The statement merely says to allow it, not impose it.

What does it have to do with abortion anyways? Men and woman were created differently and are suppose to have different tasks.


Line 12 says for the woman not


"To seize and hold (the power or rights of another, for example) by force or without legal authority."

over men.


usurp - Definitions from Dictionary.com

Keep in mind the word usurp when written in this version of the bible was done so over 300 years ago, definitions have changed.

What is wrong with line 12 and what does it have to do with the bible allowing abortion?


Is there internet access in Heaven? God really doesn't do what I expect, if Heaven really is on Earth. Since Christ was the Messiah to you, born to die for your sins and deliver you from them, why is there still so much sin? What exactly did Christ accomplish?

Don't even understand why he died? Christ wasn't born to die for all sins.
"If there had been any other way, Jesus would not have died" (Gal 2:21)
 
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Throughout the OT the Jews are referred to by God as a "stiff-necked people"--meaning one who will not look upon the face of the Lord and rather rebels in an effort to follow his own path. Here's a couple of examples:

Exod.33
[5] For the LORD had said unto Moses, Say unto the children of Israel, Ye are a stiffnecked people: I will come up into the midst of thee in a moment, and consume thee: therefore now put off thy ornaments from thee, that I may know what to do unto thee.

2Chr.36
[13] And he also rebelled against king Nebuchadnezzar, who had made him swear by God: but he stiffened his neck, and hardened his heart from turning unto the LORD God of Israel.

Bar.2
[30] For I knew that they would not hear me, because it is a stiffnecked people: but in the land of their captivities they shall remember themselves.



It does not surprise me that many Jews still have "stiff necks" when it comes to submitting to the plan of God. If they were not so "stiff-necked", they might be Christian, recognizing the Messiah when he came.
I fail to see how the Jews who base their views on the bible would be know less than the christians who tend to base thier views on people like St.Augustine.
 
I fail to see how the Jews who base their views on the bible would be know less than the christians who tend to base thier views on people like St.Augustine.

St. Augustine, oh you mean "Torture the heretics" Augustine?

What about people who base their views on him?
 

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