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What does "Support the Troops" mean?

Iriemon

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
You, name one country that has done more good to help the world than the U.S.?

What does this have to do with the Iraq invasion? Because the US did some good things in the past necessarily means that Bush's war was motivated to do good things?

You, and half the people on this sight who spout off Al-Jazeera talking points on a daily basis.

I never listen to Al-Jazeera. Is that some kind of jazz band?

You, I have not heard an original thought come out of your fingertips since the begining of this discussion.

Yes, oh spouter of neocon apologia.

You, who denies the widely accepted fact that Saddam perpetrated genocide and crimes against humanity on his own citizentry negating his right to soveriegnty and giving the U.S. the right under international law to use force to remove him from power.

I do question the validity of the neocon line -- so much of what they have told us is BS. Why do you accept their story as rote after all the mistakes/lies about WMDs, nuke programs, hundreds of tons of chemicals, long rang missles, aluminum tubes, Nigerian Yellowcake, Iraqis welcoming us, mission accomplished, death throes, etc. etc. etc?

Do you ever stop and wonder about the credibility of these folks? How many mistakes/lies do they have to make before you stop accepting blindly what they say?

I don't doubt Saddam was a brutal ruler who crushed rebellions and caused the death of thousands in doing so. Same thing we are doing, actually. 30,000 dead in less than three years, within a decade will be up there with Saddam's supposed numbers.

But a brutal dictator alone does not justify invasion, IMO. Nor was it the reason we invaded -- there are brutal dictators all over the place, including IMO, Cuba, a brutal dictatorship government you admit you support. So the "save the poor Iraqis" after the fact justification for the pretextual invasion doesn't fly.

You and others on this sight, who even now as we speak attempt to revise history right in front of my very eyes in that you are calling this an illegal war allthough the U.N. passed a resolution threatening serious consequences against Saddam if he did not abide by the parameters of the dozen odd previous resolutions which he failed to do, and denying the fact that the President was granted expressed permission by congress for the use of force against Iraq.

Where did I ever say illegal? I personally do not know if it was illegal, I am not that familiar with international law on this point to state an opinion.

However, this invasion of a country that did not attack us, has never been associated with a terrorist attack against us nor supported terrorists against us, that was not involved in 09/11, and was invaded based upon "mistakes" if not outright lies -- is illegetiminate and was unjustified, IMO. That I have said, and stand by it.
 
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Tetracide said:
Support the troops means not to parade the death count, respect the work they are doing as people doing it, regardless of if you think they should be doing it or not.

Supporting the troops means not calling them murdered, savages, or portray them as such.

Supporting the troops is hoping they are safe and will finish what they have gotten into so they return safely home, not hopeing we fail just so you get bragging rights.

This isn't directed at any one person.


I guess I don't support our troops then, or our president, or his views, and definately not Rust Limbaugh.
 
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The End of The World

To those of you who think going to war in the name of liberty is a good thing. First of all, The law of God is above the law of man. It is not right to impose warfare or justice to anyone no matter how bad their deeds may be. God has a plan for the wicked of the earth. He has forseen all of this coming and will serve his justice. We as Americans think it is our duty to impose God's laws and morals to the people of the world. All God ever asked us to do was to spread his word, so that everyone may have eternal life with him. This is what I believe to be true, a little black book called 'the Bible' is more important to our national safety than all the B-2 bombers and hydrogen bombs our factories can ever produce. When Armageddon is here, you and George can take your weapons to defend yourselves. I will take the Lord, and I promise you we will win.

As we watch our current world sink deeper and deeper into the kind of profligate behavior the angel's words were meant to countermand.

John's revelations flash a warning light whose pulsing redness grows more intense with each passing day. In the early 1960's the United States still gloried in the radiance of benefaction. It had, with its defenses, saved the entire world from a flood of desperate totalitarian fanatics who had tried to capture it militarily. Ours was a country steeped in beauty and filled with heavenly wisdom, an Eden in the garden of God.

In forty years, all that has radically changed. Those who ruled this nation in God's righteousness and human compassion were replaced by others with darker motives. They gave us a new country. Seeing no need for any power but their own, they boldly evicted God outright.

Today the nation's schools and institutions are not allowed even to utter God's name. Public prayer has been outlawed. Democracy has been replaced by greed and an unbridled thirst for money. A new militancy has surfaced, and with it, invasion and attack. The spectre of empire and hubris now haunt our flag. Jeremiah's prophecies outlining the last days foresee a nation symbolically called "Egypt" invading the country now called Iraq and setting up outposts there near the Euphrates river.

America has just done that. This prophecy has come true and it describes the United States. Our current outposts prove that we are the "Egypt" of Jeremiah's prophecy. Considering Jeremiah's description of the consequences of that invasion, our advance there portends an ominous future. As far as scripture is concerned, it portends a nation like Tyre, a nation that has discarded God owing to a national belief that it (or in our case, our constitution) is superior to God; where trading is the new god, and military prowess alone is all the protection needed or desired. Military might is America.

Therein lies the second half of the cryptogram. In other words, it portends a different kind of "Kittim", one that cannot be mistaken for "Jerusalem". It is a worldly "Kittim", the military arm of a corporate empire that views itself as omnipotent; An empire that serves a god of gold.

"By your wisdom and intelligence you have amassed great wealth; you have piles of gold and silver inside your treasure houses. Such is your skill in trading, your wealth has continued to increase, and with this your heart has grown more arrogant."

"And so, the Lord God says this: Since you consider yourself the equal of God, very well, I am going to bring foreigners against you, the most barbarous of the nations. They will draw sword against your fine wisdom, they will defile your glory; they will throw you down into the pit and you will die a violent death surrounded by the seas."

"Are you still going to say: I am a god, when your murderers confront you? No, you are a man and not a god in the clutches of your murderers! You will die like the uncircumcised at the hand of foreigners. For I have spoken it is the Lord God who speaks." (Ez.28:4-10).

It is not the United States of the nineteen-fifties that has positioned itself at the Euphrates. It is a nation that has chosen to become its own god; a nation that has replaced God with humanistic temples honoring armaments and worldly finance. Renouncing it's Christian heritage it has, in less than forty years, almost fully reconstructed itself into the secular cryptogram of a symbolic "Egypt". Jesus warns us that this dramatic movement in choice is to be the grounds for divine judgement:

"On these grounds is the sentence pronounced: that though the light has come into the world men have shown they prefer darkness to the light because their deeds are evil." (John 3:19).

Can America return to its former glory? There is only one way. We have to put God back in charge. We have to return the reins to Jesus and put the government back on His shoulders. Unless that happens our fate is sure to be as Tyre's. So keep your faith in George W. Bush. Because you yourself have forgotten that God gave life to everything, and our duty is to glorify and serve him, not our own goals or dreams.

May God have mercy on the world. For she knows not what she has done!
 

Iriemon

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Re: The End of The World

GeorgeDumbyaBush said:
To those of you who think going to war in the name of liberty is a good thing. First of all, The law of God is above the law of man.
...
May God have mercy on the world. For she knows not what she has done!


And what has America done that is any worse than just about every other nation on the planet (that had the capability) has done? I assure you I can recount numerous examples of nations that have done much worse with their power.
 
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Re: The End of The World

Iriemon said:
And what has America done that is any worse than just about every other nation on the planet (that had the capability) has done? I assure you I can recount numerous examples of nations that have done much worse with their power.

That is exactly the point...no other nation was given God's grace to do anything either! We as Americans should quit thinking we are the keepers of the Earth...we have far more to worry about in our homeland, (such as the hurricanes???) than to try and capture every evil person on the planet. As I stated before, God foresaw all of this coming. His test is to see what we will do about it. Punishment will come to these evil men. If you have any faith in God at all, then you would not question that. We should keep our troops home, and only defend our country if we are invaded. Our lives would be much simpler and better off, if we remembered who created us, and that our lives were created to glorify God and make him smile.
 

cnredd

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Re: The End of The World

GeorgeDumbyaBush said:
To those of you who think going to war in the name of liberty is a good thing. First of all, The law of God is above the law of man. It is not right to impose warfare or justice to anyone no matter how bad their deeds may be....

[Moderator mode]
:smash:

As per forum rules...

8. Copyrighted Material - All material posted from copyrighted material MUST contain a link to the original work.
Please do not post entire articles. Proper format is to paraphrase the contents of an article and/or post relevant excerpts and then link to the rest. Best bet is to always reference the original source.
Title 17, Chapter 1, Section 107 http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html

These are two of the sites that you have intentionally plagerized...

http://members.aol.com/Wisdomway/revelations2.htm

http://members.aol.com/Wisdomway/questions.htm

This will not be tolerated on this forum...

[/Moderator mode]
 

gordon

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the only terrorist is an American made terrorist

if you really backed your troops you would all be screaming bring the boys home

Iraq is destined to be another failure

IT is an impossible war to win each day you create more terrorists

they fight to defend their land from an invading force and you call them terrorists
americans are the terrorists in Iraq
only an American would see american forces in Iraq as freedom fighters ,Iraq doesnt want your freedom or your puppet govt. that is pro bush.
ANd will fight with tooth and nail to keep it out of Iraq
in the meantime AMerica kills 1 kid 3 women and 4 males ,all civilians each day .
has dumped in excess of 3,000 tons of uranium munitions all over Iraq
torturing prisoners,excessive force etc..

Yes indeed it is the Americans that are the agressors and the terrorists
they create war in a time of peace
only an American wears blinders,look out at the world America why do they hate you so
I wonder
 

Billo_Really

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Originally Posted by Pub31321:
Do you have any idea at all how Hussein murdered and tortured thousands of innocent people? All of this is steps in creating a peaceful nation. Ill agree a lot of people are dying because of this war, but that is innevitable. Creating a peaceful nation of democracy has its costs. And unfortunately these peoples lives are the cost for future generations to live out their lives without fear of having electro-shock utensils hooked up to their balls and getting the **** shocked out of them
What are you talking about? Were doing the same thing to them at Abu Grhaib. One Iraqi (who still had his sense of humor after he was released) commented on being tortured, "The US was able to bring electricity to my ass, before they brought it to my block!"
 

Trajan Octavian Titus

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Billo_Really said:
What are you talking about? Were doing the same thing to them at Abu Grhaib. One Iraqi (who still had his sense of humor after he was released) commented on being tortured, "The US was able to bring electricity to my ass, before they brought it to my block!"

Billo Billo Billo you didn't think that your bold faced lies would get passed me did you? We haven't done anything that could even be remotely compared to the torture of Iraqi citizens under the Saddam controled Baa'thist regime the first ones torture and the second ones mass graves:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-04-13-saddam-secrets-usat_x.htm

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/13/iraq.graves/
 

Billo_Really

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Originally Posted by Trajan Octavian Titus:
Billo Billo Billo you didn't think that your bold faced lies would get passed me did you? We haven't done anything that could even be remotely compared to the torture of Iraqi citizens under the Saddam controled Baa'thist regime the first ones torture and the second ones mass graves:
What makes you think these are "my lies", T.O.T.?
 
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I am not even going to call the supporters of the Iraq war neo-conservatives, because even so called liberals like John Kerry voted for the war.

So in reality supporters of the war in Iraq are International Interventionists.

What amazes me about the international interventionists is how they are so idealistic, beyond the point of realism. They keep refering to Iraq become a model democracy, and a beacon of light for democracy in the middle east.

Do you millitary interventionists have any understanding of the socio-economic and cultural history of the middle east, that makes a secular, minority respecting democracy, modelled on the west, completely unlikely in the middle east? Do you guys have any concept of the cultural and historical movements that shaped the west in a completely different manner to the middle east?

Or are the international interventionists going to keep holding on to the unlikely assumption that Iraq is going to become a secular nation that supports the rights of women, and minority religions? Ha give me a break.

As soon as coalition forces got rid of Saddam in the south, all that happened was the Shia theologians replaced Saddam's power structure. Democratic maybe, pluralistic and open like Europe or North America. No.

All that the war in Iraq has done is replaced a secular dictator, for an eventual Islamist theocracy. Yeah that is a real beacon of hope for the middle east.

The millitary interventionists that advocated the war in Iraq, because of nation building ideals, are just as deluded as the marxist communist leaders of a previous generation; that thought that communist millitary intervention would swirl in the great world wide socialist revolution.

Saddam was an SOB, but is he any worse than the Hause of Saud, Mubarak, or any other of the tinpot regimes that the west supports?

Pluralistic, democratic, secular nations can only come to the middle east, through cultural revolutions generated by the people themselves. Not through the barrel of a gun. To think that Western style democracy can merley be cut and pasted on nations that have no history, of speration of religious and political power, no history of pluralism, or no history heretical thought, is doomed to failed.

The supporters of millitary intervention in the hope creating a model democracy, are just as deluded as the Marxist leaders of Communism, that advocated millitary intervention to push the socialist cause.

End of rant!
 

Iriemon

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Australianlibertarian said:
I am not even going to call the supporters of the Iraq war neo-conservatives, because even so called liberals like John Kerry voted for the war.!

Kerry never voted for the war. That is a spin myth.

Kerry (and the rest of the Senate) voted to give Bush authority to use military force if he deemed it was warranted in dealing with Iraq.

In hindsight, I agree that was a mistake as well. But that is different than voting for the war suggesting that Kerry voted in favor of going to war with Iraq.
 

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Iriemon said:
Kerry never voted for the war. That is a spin myth.

Kerry (and the rest of the Senate) voted to give Bush authority to use military force if he deemed it was warranted in dealing with Iraq.

In hindsight, I agree that was a mistake as well. But that is different than voting for the war suggesting that Kerry voted in favor of going to war with Iraq.

Splitting hairs if ever a hair was split. Now you're going to say Kerry was
against the war, it was an unjust war and an illegal war. But above you
say Kerry was giving the President permission to use "military force if he
deemed it was warranted in dealing with Iraq." But I guess it's okay to
second guess that authority once the President deemed it necessary.

Suddenly the very intelligence lauded by every member before the war was
okay until we actually went to war, then it was flawed, misleading, hidden,
selectively released, etc.. These same people call GWB the dumbest President
ever yet he supposedly hoodwinked every one of these clowns into believing
his Iraq is Bad story. Unbelieveable, those against the war who
voted for the use of force want it both ways. And, unfortunately, the media
is allowing them to have it.

You're not the hypocrite here. It's every single member of Congress who
left themselves an open ticket to take a u-turn on the use of force for
political expediency and personal popularity.
 
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VERG go on then and prove it, hope u could because we r feed up with this

probs, can your country be kind to these people i ask u,thats all i want.

IT is it possable as a union my dear friend i dont know,maybe AMERICA
and the UK can help,it would be great if they could, as the same as what we have in the west.sorry m8 i dont know the anwser.

all the best

mikeey
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Billo Billo Billo you didn't think that your bold faced lies would get passed me did you? We haven't done anything that could even be remotely compared to the torture of Iraqi citizens under the Saddam controled Baa'thist regime the first ones torture and the second ones mass graves:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-04-13-saddam-secrets-usat_x.htm

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/13/iraq.graves/


ummmn ....!
you mean the Saddam regime ,backed by America , helped to power by America ,and armed by America dont you !
In other words, America's puppet state ,the Sadam regime.
I thought that was what you meant !
you know the Sadame regime that did all the atrocities while America watched and sent more amunition and weapons to continue the atrocities
the one and only american puppet state called sadam's regime


YOu can not talk about any place in the world without unrolling AMERICA's dirty little secrets out
unless you are American and wear the liberty blinders


support the troops really means bring them home
It sure doesn't mean keep them there now does it
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus

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Canuck said:
ummmn ....!
you mean the Saddam regime ,backed by America , helped to power by America ,and armed by America dont you !In other words, America's puppet state ,the Sadam regime.
I thought that was what you meant !
you know the Sadame regime that did all the atrocities while America watched and sent more amunition and weapons to continue the atrocities
the one and only american puppet state called sadam's regime


YOu can not talk about any place in the world without unrolling AMERICA's dirty little secrets out
unless you are American and wear the liberty blinders


support the troops really means bring them home
It sure doesn't mean keep them there now does it

The Soviets backed Iran so we backed Iraq it was the cold war and we won so I will not apologize. The only time we backed Saddam was when he had shared interests with us, we didn't put him in power but we had a mutual enemy; Iran, ever here the old adage; the enemy of my enemy is my friend? The cold war made for strange bed fellows indeed. But perhaps you wanted the evil empire of the U.S.S.R. to win?
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
The Soviets backed Iran so we backed Iraq it was the cold war and we won so I will not apologize. The cold war made for strange bed fellows indeed. But perhaps you wanted the evil empire of the U.S.S.R. to win?

The USSR was about as evil as the US in the Cold War.
 

Trajan Octavian Titus

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Comrade Brian said:
The USSR was about as evil as the US in the Cold War.

Ya sure thing pal tell that to the millions murdered by Stalin in the biggest genocide this world has ever seen. The U.S. was no where near as bad not even close not even on the same level.
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
The Soviets backed Iran so we backed Iraq it was the cold war and we won so I will not apologize. The only time we backed Saddam was when he had shared interests with us, we didn't put him in power but we had a mutual enemy; Iran, ever here the old adage; the enemy of my enemy is my friend? The cold war made for strange bed fellows indeed. But perhaps you wanted the evil empire of the U.S.S.R. to win?

no your forgeting the iran contra arms deals
that sent munitions ans weapons to iran and money for drugs to make even more money for bush SR
while he was head of CIA under reagan

America armed both sides and was very willing to let both countries to fight it out
and commit atrocities and they still backed them
anyone claiming America has a vested interest in freedom in IRAq is a moron
they never did and still dont

and vietnam did AMerica not kill 100's of thousands there and iraq too over 100k dead civilians
 

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Comrade Brian said:
So you're back canuck.
YES comrade it is I the libertarian
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus

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Canuck said:
no your forgeting the iran contra arms deals
that sent munitions ans weapons to iran and money for drugs to make even more money for bush SR
while he was head of CIA under reagan


America armed both sides and was very willing to let both countries to fight it out
and commit atrocities and they still backed them
anyone claiming America has a vested interest in freedom in IRAq is a moron
they never did and still dont

and vietnam did AMerica not kill 100's of thousands there and iraq too over 100k dead civilians


lmfao we sold weapons to Iran to fund the contras to fight the communist Sadanistas in Nicaragua another intricate part in the fight to stop the spread of communism so again I will not apologize.

Your conspiratorial rhetoric trys to oversimplify the geo-political landscape because you cannot understand the intricacies of the modern political arena, or in other words you're to ****ing stupid to get this stuff.
 
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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
If you're a libertarian then I'm a communist.
thats right how astute of you to come clean
 

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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
lmfao we sold weapons to Iran to fund the contras to fight the communist Sadanistas in Nicaragua another intricate part in the fight to stop the spread of communism so again I will not apologize.

Your conspiratorial rhetoric trys to oversimplify the geo-political landscape because you cannot understand the intricacies of the modern political arena, or in other words you're to ****ing stupid to get this stuff.

dont make me laugh
please
what you call freedom the rest of the world calls installing a pro AMericano
GOVT wether its freedom or not is not even in the equasion
I remind you that the iran /contra affair was illegal and contrary to American laws
That you back it proves that you indeed are not behind freedom
 
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