• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

Celebrity

DP Veteran
Joined
May 13, 2016
Messages
5,257
Reaction score
761
Location
VT, USA
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Since the early 60's[SUP]1[/SUP], the phrase "pro life" has often been interpreted as being in violation of a woman's bodily autonomy, by the following definition:

pro-life (prō-līf′)
adj.
Advocating the legal protection of human embryos and fetuses, especially by favoring the outlawing of abortion on the ground that it is the taking of a human life.

Advocacy for legal protection of human embryos and fetuses is essential to treating "pro life" as a political doctrine, beyond what I might believe about biological life. Here are some things that I believe are important to the life of young children: adequate prenatal care, parental leave (including adoption leave), and early childhood education. Abortion is like a miscarriage which is preventable. We can make choices at any time before pregnancy that stop an abortion from happening.

I am nominally pro life, because I resent the misnomer that is "pro-choice." You will find that I agree with the pro choice agenda on the importance of the three things listed above that are important to life. Not all pro choice people agree, but some do, and I don't like to think of people who abort as people who kill babies. When a life is lost by miscarriage or abortion, it is unfortunate for anyone who wants to add a family member to their group.

I resent the misnomer of "pro choice" which is assigned to anyone who believes a woman has the right to decide what to do with her body, because it does not include people who believe that men have the right to decide what to do with their lives. Biological life has worked with social life to produce and improve prenatal care, parental leave and early childhood education. I don't think it's pro life to take away these things and it's certainly not pro choice. The choice between putting food on the table for one's family and buying a contraceptive for one's family is not a real choice.

In any political arena, we have to deal with the questions associated with the scarcity of resources. I'm not interested in discussing the availability of birth control as a resource in this thread. Naturalists and feminists would have you believe that the simplest answer is also the best answer. According to the heuristic of Occam's Razor, feminists don't know what they're talking about. Condoms add a synthetic element to sex, and birth control techniques like withdrawal and the rhythm method require a significant amount of coordination. It would be far simpler to just make the baby; when you decide to not make a baby, Occam's Razor still applies. The withdrawal method will not work for women and the rhythm method will not work for men, unless men and women are cooperative.

Because men and women are not cooperative, how can society continue to support people who want to reproduce, without punishing those who are not prepared to reproduce?


1. pro-life. (n.d.) Random House Kernerman Webster’s College Dictionary. (2010). Retrieved August 5 2016 from Pro-lifeww.thefreedictionary.com/pro-life - definition of pro-lifeww.thefreedictionary.com/pro-life by The Free Dictionary
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

I resent the misnomer of "pro choice" which is assigned to anyone who believes a woman has the right to decide what to do with her body, because it does not include people who believe that men have the right to decide what to do with their lives.

What?
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

What is your question?

How does "pro-choice" not include people who believe that men have the right to decide what to do with their lives?
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

This is starting off great!
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

How does "pro-choice" not include people who believe that men have the right to decide what to do with their lives?

Try to imagine a situation in which a woman claims to be the origin of a man's financial accountability toward other people due to her bodily autonomy.
 
Last edited:
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

Try to imagine a situation in which a woman's claims to be the origin of a man's financial accountability toward other people due to her bodily autonomy.

Is the man not responsible for his actions?
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

Is the man not responsible for his actions?

A man is as much responsible for carrying through with a pregnancy as a woman is responsible for ejaculating sperm. Moreover, allowing responsibility for abortion for women and not men is an example of how men are not responsible. Men are responsible for the action of choice, though in the case of reproduction only women are allowed a choice.
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

A man is as much responsible for carrying through with a pregnancy as a woman is responsible for ejaculating sperm. Moreover, allowing responsibility for abortion for women and not men is an example of how men are not responsible. Men are responsible for the action of choice, though in the case of reproduction only women are allowed a choice.

So you advocate releasing men from responsibility for their actions? She didn't get pregnant alone.
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

So you advocate releasing men from responsibility for their actions? She didn't get pregnant alone.

No, she didn't get pregnant alone. However, the pregnancy is her action, and her action alone.

I want to make sure that crystal clear that I am only referring to individuals when I say that yes, men are responsible for their actions.

For instance, men can be responsible for the actions of other men. Leadership is a good example. Men can also not be responsible for the actions of other men. There's no shame in that, for instance, young men who are single children typically do not lead older men. Men can be responsible for the actions of women. When men and women are married, they share responsibility toward one another.
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

How does "pro-choice" not include people who believe that men have the right to decide what to do with their lives?

Men have the right to do with their lives what they want, as do women.

But we all have responsibilities whether we like them or not.

And in society their can be consequences to not owning up to your responsibilities.

No pardon me while I go claim 45 dependents so I can pay for that trip to Disneyworld.:3oops:
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

So you advocate releasing men from responsibility for their actions? She didn't get pregnant alone.

We already allow woman an out for the consequences of sex, so why not men?

Oh and yes, I'm aware that pregnancy is a consequence, but as I'm sure everyone is aware I'm speaking towards the consequence of giving birth.
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

No, she didn't get pregnant alone. However, the pregnancy is her action, and her action alone.

I want to make sure that crystal clear that I am only referring to individuals when I say that yes, men are responsible for their actions.

For instance, men can be responsible for the actions of other men. Leadership is a good example. Men can also not be responsible for the actions of other men. There's no shame in that, for instance, young men who are single children typically do not lead older men. Men can be responsible for the actions of women. When men and women are married, they share responsibility toward one another.

The pregnancy was a "group effort" unless there was a turkey baster involved.
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

Of course. Isn't the woman?

She is if she decides to be, but otherwise not so much.
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

Because men and women are not cooperative, how can society continue to support people who want to reproduce, without punishing those who are not prepared to reproduce?


I'm a bit lost as well...


Is this statement ultimately the topic of this thread?
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

Men and women, when they cooperate, are unified. Forcing men and women to be unified, when they are not, is in the best interest of the state. But this comes in direct conflict with male or female autonomy. For convenience, the state has commonly forced men to accommodate women. How can the state be impartial in how it supports men and women who want to become parents? Ultimately, the subject of this thread is what it means to be pro life. Being pro life isn't the same thing as forcing men to pay child support, or forcing women to abort. There are many choices in life, so being pro life involves making choices. There are also many different people in life, yet being pro life doesn't mean bending other people to the will of the state. Being pro life should not be harassing, injuring and insulting other people in order to achieve personal life goals.
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

Because feigning ignorance of someone's autonomy is the last step before tyranny becomes justifiable, apparently.
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

How does "pro-choice" not include people who believe that men have the right to decide what to do with their lives?

Because men are often forced to support a kid that they did not choose to have...
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

So you advocate releasing men from responsibility for their actions? She didn't get pregnant alone.

Men should be allowed to be released from their responsibility as much as the woman is allowed to be...
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

:shrug: I don't know what Celebrity is talking about anymore.

It is pretty obvious, actually...
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

To the OP title. Basically you take a pro-choier and remove all ability to reason, all intellect and ability to think rationally and develop a total aversion to facts and replace with religious dogma or leave empty. The result is "pro-life"
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

To the OP title. Basically you take a pro-choier and remove all ability to reason, all intellect and ability to think rationally and develop a total aversion to facts and replace with religious dogma or leave empty. The result is "pro-life"

How does this work with the rest of the thread? The same could be said about pro choice, just replace religious dogma with socialist dogma. If pro choice means having all of the facts, and pro life means not having the facts, there won't be much of a debate. That's what flaming liberals have, "facts."

I saw a cartoon poking fun at pro lifers protesting Planned Parenthood, which provides a variety of services to people who want to be parents. It makes sense without naming Planned Parenthood in the cartoon, though the protesters were protesting different services. I am not anti-abortion. I think there are a lot of resources at Planned Parenthood which are invaluable to men and women. This is supposed to be a wedge issue, but I think that only a small number of radical people are causing harm to the political integrity of a larger group.
 
re: What does it mean to be "pro life?"[W:156]

You like breathing?
 
Back
Top Bottom