• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

What do you think of the War of Northern Attrition?

Atomic Kid

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
17,156
Reaction score
7,049
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
The Constitution is the contract that theoretically binds all states into perpetual union. If you can find a place where those signing conditions are stated in detail, I'd accept that as evidence.

"97
Did Texas, in consecuence of these acts, cease to be a State? Or, if not, did the State cease to be a member of the Union?
98
It is needless to discuss, at length, the question whether the right of a State to withdraw from the Union for any cause, regarded by herself as sufficient, is consistent with the Constitution of the United States.
99
The Union of the States never was a purely artificial and arbitrary relation. It began among the Colonies, and grew out of common origin, mutual sympathies, kindred principles, similar interests, and geographical relations. It was confirmed and strengthened by the necessities of war, and received definite form, and character, and sanction from the Articles of Confederation. By these the Union was solemnly declared to 'be perpetual.' And when these Articles were found to be inadequate to the exigencies of the country, the Constitution was ordained 'to form a more perfect Union.' It is difficult to convey the idea of indissoluble unity more clearly than by these words. What can be indissoluble if a perpetual Union, made more perfect, is not?
100
But the perpetuity and indissolubility of the Union, by no means implies the loss of distinct and individual existence, or of the right of self-government by the States. Under the Articles of Confederation each State retained its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right not expressly delegated to the United States. Under the Constitution, though the powers of the States were much restricted, still, all powers not delegated to the United States, nor prohibited to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. And we have already had occasion to remark at this term, that the people of each State compose a State, having its own government, and endowed with all the functions essential to separate and independent existence,' and that 'without the States in union, there could be no such political body as the United States.' Not only, therefore, can there be no loss of separate and independent autonomy to the States, through their union under the Constitution, but it may be not unreasonably said that the preservation of the States, and the maintenance of their governments, are as much within the design and care of the Constitution as the preservation of the Union and the maintenance of the National government. The Constitution, in all its provisions, looks to an indestructible Union, composed of indestructible States.
101
When, therefore, Texas became one of the United States, she entered into an indissoluble relation. All the obligations of perpetual union, and all the guaranties of republican government in the Union, attached at once to the State. The act which consummated her admission into the Union was something more than a compact; it was the incorporation of a new member into the political body. And it was final. The union between Texas and the other States was as complete, as perpetual, and as indissoluble as the union between the original States. There was no place for reconsideration, or revocation, except through revolution, or through consent of the States.
 

Atomic Kid

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
17,156
Reaction score
7,049
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
At foreign soldiers who had refused to obey orders to evacuate from the state governor.
The Armed Forces of the United States takes orders only from it's Commander in Chief. The US President.
 

Atomic Kid

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
17,156
Reaction score
7,049
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Nope, all bets are not off. Separate countries have the right to expel hostiles. But just for grins, how do you source your "fact?"
There were no "separate countries" involved here. Only one. That's why it's called "The Civil War". Which is a war between citizens of the same country.
 

Atomic Kid

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
17,156
Reaction score
7,049
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
The question of the right to secession makes all the difference, given that the Left so frequently labels the Confederates "traitors."
As treason is defined in the Constitution that is essentially what they were.
 

slick

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Messages
6,749
Reaction score
2,122
Location
Nassau County, Long Island
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative

What do I think of the War of Northern Attrition?​

I think the Confederates had 3 of the 5 greatest tactical generals this country ever produced!
That's noteworthy
 

Atomic Kid

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
17,156
Reaction score
7,049
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
What's all that bushwah about "no oath sworn in heaven?"
Article Two. Section 1. Clause 8. Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:—"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
All that mattered was, did the South have the right to secede or not. Typical politician, avoiding the key question.
Already answered in the negative several times already and have cited established Supreme Court law denying that any state has the right to unilaterally secede from the Union. But you keep asking it nonetheless expecting a different answer.:rolleyes:
 

jpevans

Masshole
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
5,969
Reaction score
3,440
Location
Western Mass.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Correct, and there is no comparison between the US defeating brothers and the US defeating Hitler.

Which is a perfect example of Godwins law.
You are wrong, my brothers won't fight for the right to own people. They were the enemy of the U.S. of A. when they decided that owning people was worth killing & dying for. It's that simple, no BS.
 

Atomic Kid

DP Veteran
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
17,156
Reaction score
7,049
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal

What do I think of the War of Northern Attrition?​

I think the Confederates had 3 of the 5 greatest tactical generals this country ever produced!
That's noteworthy
Only noteworthy in the respect that their tactics and strategy resulted in a resounding and very costly defeat.
 

Bodi

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
108,816
Reaction score
23,381
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Also known as the Civil War.
Accurately known as the South Being Racist Assholes Who Started a War So That They Could Own People.

But that is long so Civil War is used instead.
 

Bodi

Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
108,816
Reaction score
23,381
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The USA was right to free the slaves. They were wrong to then occupy and force the sovereign confederate people to be citizens of the USA.
I can't believe that people are whining 160 years later that the South started a war and got their asses kicked. Smells of Bitchery.
 

jonny5

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 4, 2012
Messages
24,502
Reaction score
4,031
Location
Republic of Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
You are wrong, my brothers won't fight for the right to own people. They were the enemy of the U.S. of A. when they decided that owning people was worth killing & dying for. It's that simple, no BS.

It isnt that simple and never has been. Slavery was normal at the time, in the US of A as well, which wrote it into the constitution. Lincoln didnt even free the slaves in the north with his proclamation. He cared more about politics than slaves.

Lincoln: "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."​


He didnt see the south as enemies.
 

vegas giants

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 6, 2017
Messages
97,493
Reaction score
15,363
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
It isnt that simple and never has been. Slavery was normal at the time, in the US of A as well, which wrote it into the constitution. Lincoln didnt even free the slaves in the north with his proclamation. He cared more about politics than slaves.

Lincoln: "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."​


He didnt see the south as enemies.
Yet they were traitors that attacked the union
 

vegas giants

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 6, 2017
Messages
97,493
Reaction score
15,363
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed

What do I think of the War of Northern Attrition?​

I think the Confederates had 3 of the 5 greatest tactical generals this country ever produced!
That's noteworthy
You bad they were traitors to America
 

jonny5

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 4, 2012
Messages
24,502
Reaction score
4,031
Location
Republic of Florida
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Only noteworthy in the respect that their tactics and strategy resulted in a resounding and very costly defeat.

Not exactly, for the military it was not a resounding defeat. For for years they fought outnumbered, underfunded, and using untrained soldiers. The union was simply larger, richer, and had even better generals.
 

danielpalos

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 14, 2012
Messages
29,135
Reaction score
1,519
Location
US, California - federalist
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
It isnt that simple and never has been. Slavery was normal at the time, in the US of A as well, which wrote it into the constitution. Lincoln didnt even free the slaves in the north with his proclamation. He cared more about politics than slaves.

Lincoln: "My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that."​


He didnt see the south as enemies.
And, he was a lawyer. Eminent domain should have been considered.
 

jpevans

Masshole
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
5,969
Reaction score
3,440
Location
Western Mass.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Not exactly, for the military it was not a resounding defeat. For for years they fought outnumbered, underfunded, and using untrained soldiers. The union was simply larger, richer, and had even better generals.
The Union States are still supporting the Confederate states.
 

EMNofSeattle

No Russian ever called me deplorable
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
37,278
Reaction score
11,718
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
I think a lot of Southerners would still like to buy and sell little girls and have others do their work for free.
Lol

This is what the left things of people they view as enemies. They specifically create false beliefs to dehumanize others.
 

jpevans

Masshole
DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
5,969
Reaction score
3,440
Location
Western Mass.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Lol

This is what the left things of people they view as enemies. They specifically create false beliefs to dehumanize others.
LOL the people in the south sold people all the time, they sold little girls out from under Mama's care, they seperated families all the time, fearful of having tight family ties among the Cattel.
 

EMNofSeattle

No Russian ever called me deplorable
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 20, 2014
Messages
37,278
Reaction score
11,718
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Very Conservative
LOL the people in the south sold people all the time, they sold little girls out from under Mama's care, they seperated families all the time, fearful of having tight family ties among the Cattel.
Yeah, the same things happened in Latin America. And yet that poster did not say Latinos, he said Southerners.
 

danielpalos

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 14, 2012
Messages
29,135
Reaction score
1,519
Location
US, California - federalist
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
LOL the people in the south sold people all the time, they sold little girls out from under Mama's care, they seperated families all the time, fearful of having tight family ties among the Cattel.
One of the social dilemmas created through unequal protection of the laws.
 

slick

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Messages
6,749
Reaction score
2,122
Location
Nassau County, Long Island
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
You bad they were traitors to America
The government against which he fought has honored Robert E. Lee on at least five
postage stamps. Stonewall Jackson has also been memorialized on US stamps.
Some politically correct liberals may consider Confederate Generals like Lee as traitors
but it is obvious the U.S. government does not.

Dwight Eisenhower from Kansas a terrific General & considered a
top 5 President of all time when decorating the Oval Office
to suit himself had placed in the most prominent position the portrait of Robert E. Lee. My guess
is that Ike did not view Lee as a traitor but considered Lee a great leader of men as he was.

Ever hear of 'Fightin Joe" Wheeler.
'Fightin' Joe Wheeler is memorialized with a statue in Capital Hall & of course deserves one.
A top confederate general he became longtime congressman from Alabama in the postwar years,
before he donned the US arny blue once again as a major general in the war with Spain.

The fact that the US government, against which he had fought, gave Wheeler a position of high
command suggests the bad blood had begun to dissipate. Wikipedia also lists Fitzhugh Lee &
Matthew Butler as former Confederate major-generals who commanded troops in the Spanish-American war.
After the war, 15 Confederate Officers served as U.S. ambassadors or ministers to foreign countries'

You set the standard of evidence with your claim. Don't cry because someone shoves it back in your face.
 

vegas giants

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 6, 2017
Messages
97,493
Reaction score
15,363
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
The government against which he fought has honored Robert E. Lee on at least five
postage stamps. Stonewall Jackson has also been memorialized on US stamps.
Some politically correct liberals may consider Confederate Generals like Lee as traitors
but it is obvious the U.S. government does not.

Dwight Eisenhower from Kansas a terrific General & considered a
top 5 President of all time when decorating the Oval Office
to suit himself had placed in the most prominent position the portrait of Robert E. Lee. My guess
is that Ike did not view Lee as a traitor but considered Lee a great leader of men as he was.

Ever hear of 'Fightin Joe" Wheeler.
'Fightin' Joe Wheeler is memorialized with a statue in Capital Hall & of course deserves one.
A top confederate general he became longtime congressman from Alabama in the postwar years,
before he donned the US arny blue once again as a major general in the war with Spain.

The fact that the US government, against which he had fought, gave Wheeler a position of high
command suggests the bad blood had begun to dissipate. Wikipedia also lists Fitzhugh Lee &
Matthew Butler as former Confederate major-generals who commanded troops in the Spanish-American war.
After the war, 15 Confederate Officers served as U.S. ambassadors or ministers to foreign countries'

You set the standard of evidence with your claim. Don't cry because someone shoves it back in your face.
That's nice


They were traitors to America and shoukd have been hung from a tree
 

slick

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 19, 2017
Messages
6,749
Reaction score
2,122
Location
Nassau County, Long Island
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Vegas I can imagine someone like you gambling:

Bookie: Sir, you lost 41-3.
Vegas: No I didn't. It was a tie, 0-0.

Bookie: Uhh, sir that was the score before the game started

Vegas: Exactly I bet the pre game.

Bookie: You take something that hasn't a kernel of truth to it, and then exaggerate it beyond all recognition.
 
Top Bottom