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what do you think of Kerry's statement? (1 Viewer)

Does Kerry represent democrats/liberals?

  • no - I'm republican/conservative

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    21
F

FallingPianos

"You know, education - if you make the most of it - you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

does his statement reflect the veiws of democrats/liberas?

I want to know if this is a partisan issue
 
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star2589 said:
"You know, education - if you make the most of it - you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. If you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

does his statement reflect the veiws of democrats/liberas?

I want to know if this is a partisan issue
I don't think Kerry's remarks were meant to be derogatory. Never the less, I do think a lot of Democrats, particularly those actually involved in the party, view the military very prejudicial. While no one says outright, I think a lot of liberals still hold a Vietnam era view of the military, ‘baby-killers’. That is a bit of an exaggeration, but there does seem to be an undertone that people in the military are dumb robots, and Republican to boot. That being said, it is generally true that if you meet someone who was in the military they are probably Republican, possibly all hardcore, and a lot of them aren’t as smart as the average bear. And there are some loud obnoxious amoral neo-cons to shore it up.

Sadly, I think the spin version of his statement is what a lot of people think. Which is why it is working so well getting people riled up. The blackest of lies is half a truth.

I hope I answered your question
 
I'm of the opinion that he mangled his joke, and that it was meant to be directed against Bush, not the troops in general.

Unfortunately, as much as he might try, he can't run away from his own statements.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXwCrpMHkYc
 
Morrow said:
I don't think Kerry's remarks were meant to be derogatory. Never the less, I do think a lot of Democrats, particularly those actually involved in the party, view the military very prejudicial. While no one says outright, I think a lot of liberals still hold a Vietnam era view of the military, ‘baby-killers’. That is a bit of an exaggeration, but there does seem to be an undertone that people in the military are dumb robots, and Republican to boot. That being said, it is generally true that if you meet someone who was in the military they are probably Republican, possibly all hardcore, and a lot of them aren’t as smart as the average bear. And there are some loud obnoxious amoral neo-cons to shore it up.

Sadly, I think the spin version of his statement is what a lot of people think. Which is why it is working so well getting people riled up. The blackest of lies is half a truth.

I hope I answered your question
Well said! The truth is that many democrats are not left wing or even liberal... for that reason I think Senator Kerry will be forced to actually apologize within the next 48 hours to the soldiers he insulted or the party will pay... pay because many democrats support the military and dislike this kind of talk... I know my sister-in-law is just as conservative as me but is a bleeding heart democrat... she has a gay son but only afiliates herself with the dems mainly because of union and minimum wage issues... The older dems like her and my half brother will be turned off by Senator Kerry and may not turn out to vote if he doesn't apologize even if they agree with his rebuttal that it was about Bush and not the soldiers... they know it was about soldiers because everyone knows it was about soldiers he was speaking.
 
'eh, it's pointless for Kerry to apologize at this point. I think an apology would only make it worse for the Democrats, as it would give the GOP more spin-ammo of "flip flopping". I.e first he said he wouldn't apologize, then he did. Best thing Kerry could do at this point is to stfu and disappear for the next week or so, and hope that this gets pushed off the front page by tomorrow morning.

The longer he keeps trying to defend/explain/etc. his statement, the longer it stays on the front page, and thus the longer is lingers in the voters minds. Democrats can't afford to have this guy front and center for the next week, because any "we are strong on security and only we can fix Iraq" sentiment the DNC has built up will be trashed come next Tuesday. He needs to, er, cut-and-run, from the spotlight for the next week.

Besides, any of the "military vote" he lost by virtue of this statement isn't going to be re-captured by an apology.
 
I guess everyone is entitled to their opinon, Morrow.

Kerry is trying to spin this as a joke gone awry, but no one is buying it because of his well-documented public disdain for the military time and again!

To put it bluntly, Kerry is a POS! I also take offense at YOUR remarks about military people: 'a lot of them aren’t as smart as the average bear.' I would be taking a guess, but I would feel pretty safe in guessing that our opinion was made in a shallow manner, probably more in passing without ever getting to know the people or without having experienced a wide cross-section of the military. I know it would very much surprise both you and Kerry to learn that the average military member is extremely smart.

When I was in college and screwing around in my 1st 2 years being educated, mostly in subjects I already knew/had taken in HS but which were core curiculum subjects for my degree, my best friend was learning how to maintain a multi-million dollar helicopter and was flying missions into hot spots in Africa to evac Ambassadors and their families! He was responsible for multi-million dollar equipment, was taking on incredible responsibility, and was leading his own enlisted troops while my biggest responsibility was getting out of bed and making it to class on time.

When I graduated, I was offered a starting salary by an Atlanta PR firm of $50,000 a year and turned it down because I wanted to serve my country. Kerry served his country as a stepping stone or a bullet on his anti-war resume. Then there is John, an engineer - a bud - who died in Iraq, who could have made 4-5 times more money than he ever made in the military on the outside but chose to serve his country because THAT was more important to him!

Kerry's remarks demonstrated his own ignorance as well as his continued disdain for the military, his continued willingness to take shots at the military for his own political and personal gain, and served only to dishonor the sacrifices of many men and women who have died in Iraq as well as those who serve more bravely than he ever did!

His own party members are abandoning him in droves! 1 Dem leader was quoted as saying 'I guess losing in 2004 wasn't enough - now he wants to lose in 2006', while another Dem has asked him to cancel his visit he had planned to help the candidate run for office. It is not as much that his colleagues are appalled, angered, and disgusted by his remarks, as the families of soldiers who have died in Iraq are, as it is that his colleagues are afraid of getting struck by the political lightning that Kerry has called down by his remarks! Just as equally disturbing remarks by his fellow colleagues have been spewed in the past, like Durbin's comparing military members to Nazis and Pol Pot Regeimists.

(If you remember, Durbin read an e-mail that he believed was a classified report about Gitmo, one which SPECULTED possible torture at Gitmo, which turned out to be false. Durbin, however, used what he though was a classified report on the floor, doing what he THOUGHT was exposing classified information - which would have been illegal, in order to score politcal points by condemning the military for actions that turned out to be false, anyway. In the wake of his comments and the revelation that the 'report' was just an un-substantiated e-mail, Durbin STILL refused to apologize to the military for his remarks or for what he thought was leaking/exposing classified information in order to score political points!)

In his 1st days in the White House, Clinton demonstrated his ignorance and disdain for the military by asking the Joint Chiefs of Staff to wear civilian clothes to the White House to brief him every morning, and he rarely returned salutes, as Commander and Chief of the United States military, from military personel who served him (ex: Marines who slauted as he boarded his presidential helos, etc...) So, it is no hidden secret that the Democratic party has no great love of the military! Heck, every time they take the White House, the 1st thing they do is try to free up money in the bdget to spend in other areas, and the 1st place they ALWAYS target, to the point of weakening this country, is the military!

This time, however, Kerry went 1 step too far for the American people, for his fellow commrades in the House and Senate who have served in the military as well, and for the families who have buried loved ones who have served valiantly in Iraq/the military! His colleagues are abandoning him, distancing themselves from him as they have done with Howard Dean, and are demanding he apologize....so they will sound as if they care as deeply for the men and women in uniform as the voters do!

Like I said, Kerry is a POS, but you can't fault a snake for biting you if you try to hold him close to you and say he's your pal. He is what he is! Kerry will do what he can to recover from this, but if you put make-up on a pig, it's still a PIG!

'Nuff said!
 
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easyt65 said:
I guess everyone is entitled to their opinon, Morrow.

I also take offense at YOUR remarks about military people: 'a lot of them aren’t as smart as the average bear.' I would be taking a guess, but I would feel pretty safe in guessing that our opinion was made in a shallow manner, probably more in passing without ever getting to know the people or without having experienced a wide cross-section of the military. I know it would very much surprise both you and Kerry to learn that the average military member is extremely smart.

The quote was based on experience on a big cross-sample. It wasn't insulting, it was an observation. I was using it to support why people have certain prejudices they have about the military. As you obviously have prejudices about me.

That stuff about Clinton is propaganda. Clinton returned saluted just as much as anyone else, and he does just as bad a job as any other President. They all salute like they have some sort of elbow problem.
 
One wonders if this was just a stupid comment made by Kerry without thinking but the problem is it happens to often......He is either the dumbest Senator in the U.S. Senate or a person who just hates the military and has to express that hate no matter if it hurts his party or our brave men and women fighting in Iraq.....I say the latter......

Oh and don't expect him to apologize because with his huge ego he would never do that.........
 
AcePylut said:
'eh, it's pointless for Kerry to apologize at this point. I think an apology would only make it worse for the Democrats, as it would give the GOP more spin-ammo of "flip flopping". I.e first he said he wouldn't apologize, then he did. Best thing Kerry could do at this point is to stfu and disappear for the next week or so, and hope that this gets pushed off the front page by tomorrow morning.

The longer he keeps trying to defend/explain/etc. his statement, the longer it stays on the front page, and thus the longer is lingers in the voters minds. Democrats can't afford to have this guy front and center for the next week, because any "we are strong on security and only we can fix Iraq" sentiment the DNC has built up will be trashed come next Tuesday. He needs to, er, cut-and-run, from the spotlight for the next week.

Besides, any of the "military vote" he lost by virtue of this statement isn't going to be re-captured by an apology.

Personally, I don't think Kerry's statement is going to hurt the DNC at all. First of all, most people understand that Kerry doesn't speak for the entire DNC. Secondly, the Iraq was is a huge disaster for the GOP and this just puts it back into the spotlight. The Republicans would love to be able to shift the spotlight to Kerry, but Kerry was smart in that by doing so he reflected the administrations foreign policy failures back out into the public. Either way, the public is reminded again about the disasterous policies of the current administration, rubberstamped by the Republicans in congress
 
Navy Pride said:
One wonders if this was just a stupid comment made by Kerry without thinking but the problem is it happens to often......He is either the dumbest Senator in the U.S. Senate or a person who just hates the military and has to express that hate no matter if it hurts his party or our brave men and women fighting in Iraq.....I say the latter......

Nah, no politician would intentionally say something like that knowing that it would hurt his party. Kerry is just a jackass.

Navy Pride said:
Oh and don't expect him to apologize because with his huge ego he would never do that.........

Maybe. But I don't think he's going to have much of a choice, since lots of Democratic candidates are already running away from him.
 
disneydude said:
Personally, I don't think Kerry's statement is going to hurt the DNC at all. First of all, most people understand that Kerry doesn't speak for the entire DNC. Secondly, the Iraq was is a huge disaster for the GOP and this just puts it back into the spotlight. The Republicans would love to be able to shift the spotlight to Kerry, but Kerry was smart in that by doing so he reflected the administrations foreign policy failures back out into the public. Either way, the public is reminded again about the disasterous policies of the current administration, rubberstamped by the Republicans in congress

You just don't get it DD and probably never will...........These guys in our military vote and they won't be voting for a democrat.........Kerry is the gift that just keeps giving.......
 
Navy Pride said:
You just don't get it DD and probably never will...........These guys in our military vote and they won't be voting for a democrat.........Kerry is the gift that just keeps giving.......

You underestimate the intelligence of the military yourself Navy. Yes, there are many conservative military people (many of my friends are ex-military and conservative - believe it or not). However, there are many in the military who are fed up with this president and his lack of planning and intelligence. Don't take the military vote for granted because there are a lot of people who are sick and tired of a military operation with no direction and a "stay the course" mentality (or what is it you are calling it these days?)
 
disneydude said:
You underestimate the intelligence of the military yourself Navy. Yes, there are many conservative military people (many of my friends are ex-military and conservative - believe it or not). However, there are many in the military who are fed up with this president and his lack of planning and intelligence. Don't take the military vote for granted because there are a lot of people who are sick and tired of a military operation with no direction and a "stay the course" mentality (or what is it you are calling it these days?)

I was in the military for 21 years DD I don't underestimate their intelligence and the reason they are in Iraq is not because are to dumb like Kerry says.....You and Kerry underestimate their intelligence.....I think they are some of the most intelligent people in this country.......

This is about Kerry and his outrageous stupid comments...it has nothing to do with President Bush and the war kerry voted for........Don't you ever get tirted of defending this clown for his ignorance......Never mind I already know the answer......
 
Navy Pride said:
I was in the military for 21 years DD I don't underestimate their intelligence and the reason they are in Iraq is not because are to dumb like Kerry says.....You and Kerry underestimate their intelligence.....I think they are some of the most intelligent people in this country.......

This is about Kerry and his traitorous comments...it has nothing to do with President Bush and the war kerry voted for........

When you say that people in the military don't vote for Democrats....you ARE underestimating their intelligence and displaying yourself as a partisan hack.
I have many ex-military friends. Many of who supported Bush the first time around. Not surprisingly, the vast majority of them are disappointed and disgusted with the results. These are individuals who are at the opposite ends of the political spectrum from me....and yet, surprisingly we agree that "stay the course" is futile and is leading the the mindless loss of US lives.

These are individuals who love to throw their disdain for Clinton at me....but yet, are not apologists for Bush/Cheney/Rumsfield.

I respect their service....as I do yours and all our military....but even more, I respect their ability to see beyond their conservative idealogy and refuse to continue a course of failure for stubborness sake.
 
disneydude said:
When you say that people in the military don't vote for Democrats....you ARE underestimating their intelligence and displaying yourself as a partisan hack.
I have many ex-military friends. Many of who supported Bush the first time around. Not surprisingly, the vast majority of them are disappointed and disgusted with the results. These are individuals who are at the opposite ends of the political spectrum from me....and yet, surprisingly we agree that "stay the course" is futile and is leading the the mindless loss of US lives.

These are individuals who love to throw their disdain for Clinton at me....but yet, are not apologists for Bush/Cheney/Rumsfield.

I respect their service....as I do yours and all our military....but even more, I respect their ability to see beyond their conservative idealogy and refuse to continue a course of failure for stubborness sake.

Yeah I guess that is why Gore tried to disinfranchise military absentee ballots in the 2000 election because he did not wnat their vote......:rofl ...
 
Navy....you are something. Gore didn't try to disenfranchise any votes. I am assuming that you are basing that on Gore's request to have certain county ballots recounted. You guys love to spin that.....and yet what you fail to mention is that is was those counties that appeared to have quite extreme discrepancies between reported results and exit poll results. The bottom line....had the Supreme Court not stopped the STATEWIDE recount, every legitimate source showed that Gore would have won Florida and thus the election. But you right-wingers will never recognize that and so any effort to point you to the truth always always falls on deaf ears....so whats the point?????
 
What, exactly, is Kerry claiming to have meant to have said? I can't read the plain meaning of what he said any other way but: That he has a low opinion of military people, and accidentally exposed that sentiment to the world.

He claims to have meant that G W Bush was 'stuck' in Iraq? It doesn't seem plausible. I am sure that he did mean to criticise Bush, but at the last second another thought entered his mind pertaining to military folks, and their level of intelligence. He mixed it up, and exposed his true thinking.

However, if anyone changes their vote over this, well, I myself would question the level of intelligence of THAT person. Small potatoes, the sentiments of Kerry, compared to the fiasco that is Iraq.
 
Dezaad said:
What, exactly, is Kerry claiming to have meant to have said? I can't read the plain meaning of what he said any other way but: That he has a low opinion of military people, and accidentally exposed that sentiment to the world.

He claims to have meant that G W Bush was 'stuck' in Iraq? It doesn't seem plausible. I am sure that he did mean to criticise Bush, but at the last second another thought entered his mind pertaining to military folks, and their level of intelligence. He mixed it up, and exposed his true thinking.

However, if anyone changes their vote over this, well, I myself would question the level of intelligence of THAT person. Small potatoes, the sentiments of Kerry, compared to the fiasco that is Iraq.

Kerry claims that he meant to say that if you don't get a good education, you end up getting us into Iraq. In other words, a zing at Bush's intelligence.

Personally I don't see any reason not to believe Kerry (politicians don't generally make gaffes on purpose), but he's still a jackass.
 
Morrow said:
The quote was based on experience on a big cross-sample. It wasn't insulting, it was an observation. I was using it to support why people have certain prejudices they have about the military. As you obviously have prejudices about me.

That stuff about Clinton is propaganda. Clinton returned saluted just as much as anyone else, and he does just as bad a job as any other President. They all salute like they have some sort of elbow problem.

1. Define Big as well as the amount of time you spent with them. You used a generalization of the military pretty much as a whole, like Kerry did, to support your supposition/theory. I have no prejudices against you, I, as a military member, just do not like that specific thing that you said. That is what makes this country great - a POS like Kerry can insult the military that protects his @$, you can say what you said, and I can NOT like anything I want and voice it aloud.

2. That 'stuff' about Clinton is FACT! The average person on TV watching the President board his helicopter could probably not give a d@mn if the President stops to return a salute or not, but the military watches such things. Go back and watch some tape/film. One of the things the military 1st noticed about Bush was the 1st time he boarded his Helo. He picked up his dog and carried it onto the Hel while a Marine Saluted. Bush got back off the chopper to make it a point to return that salute. Clinton, after he started catching he!! for not doing it and after his Joint Chiefs fubar, began doing so! The story/word of Clinton's request of the JCS NOT to wear their uniforms when briefing him spread from their mouths throughout the Pentagon like wildfire. (Funny how Kerry said kids better be educated or they will go to Iraq - Kerry's own words & Bill Clinton's request were 2 of the dumbest things I have ever heard in my life! Maybe Kerry should have said 'study hard or you will become a politician!' However... ) The stories of Bill and hillary's disdain for the military while in office is well documented in books from ex-members of the JCS to the officers who used to carry the nuclear 'football'! So don;t give me that 'propoganda' BS!
 
Morrow said:
The quote was based on experience on a big cross-sample. It wasn't insulting, it was an observation. I was using it to support why people have certain prejudices they have about the military. As you obviously have prejudices about me.

That stuff about Clinton is propaganda. Clinton returned saluted just as much as anyone else, and he does just as bad a job as any other President. They all salute like they have some sort of elbow problem.

1. Define Big as well as the amount of time you spent with them. You used a generalization of the military pretty much as a whole, like Kerry did, to support your supposition/theory. I have no prejudices against you, I, as a military member, just do not like that specific thing that you said. That is what makes this country great - a POS like Kerry can insult the military that protects his @$, you can say what you said, and I can NOT like anything I want and voice it aloud.

2. That 'stuff' about Clinton is FACT! The average person on TV watching the President board his helicopter could probably not give a d@mn if the President stops to return a salute or not, but the military watches such things. Go back and watch some tape/film. One of the things the military 1st noticed about Bush was the 1st time he boarded his Helo. He picked up his dog and carried it onto the Hel while a Marine Saluted. Bush got back off the chopper to make it a point to return that salute. Clinton, after he started catching he!! for not doing it and after his Joint Chiefs fubar, began doing so! The story/word of Clinton's request of the JCS NOT to wear their uniforms when briefing him spread from their mouths throughout the Pentagon like wildfire. (Funny how Kerry said kids better be educated or they will go to Iraq - Kerry's own words & Bill Clinton's request were 2 of the dumbest things I have ever heard in my life! Maybe Kerry should have said 'study hard or you will become a politician!' However... ) The stories of Bill and hillary's disdain for the military while in office is well documented in books from ex-members of the JCS to the officers who used to carry the nuclear 'football'! So don't give me that 'propoganda' BS!
 
Deleted accidental double-post!
 
If one was to believe the bell curve, the average bear would be at the top. which means a lot of people, almost 50% would be less than the top. So statically speaking my remark is correct. Now all you need to ensure the majority of people in a group at below average you need something about your organization where more uneducated people will be in your group then educated. Like the military. Most people who join the military don’t have any other options, and a very large group of them come from backgrounds where they weren’t allowed to develop intellectually because of poor schooling, negative home social environments. So I can deduce that a large body of the military, over 50% would be on the lower side of average.

Regardless, I said a lot, not most. Which statically would be true, but I was stating that as an opinion. It is also true that most people in general are less than average... so you getting all offended doesn't really make sense. And I was speaking in terms of what people need for their prejudices. So if there a lot of less than average people in the military, someone who has a prejudicial view only needs to meet one of them to support their prejudice. It doesn’t matter if all the other people they met were average to above average. And if there are a lot of them there is a good chance everyone in the US has interacted with at least one less than average current of former military member.

With all the said I think the military is kind of like the bell curve you see in prison. Where the average is the least common, and the most common are the dumb and the smart. I also noticed in the military there seemed to be an inordinately large number of very smart people, as well as an inordinately large number of fairly dumb people. That middle average group didn’t seem to account for as many people as they should have.
 
Morrow said:
If one was to believe the bell curve, the average bear would be at the top. which means a lot of people, almost 50% would be less than the top. So statically speaking my remark is correct. Now all you need to ensure the majority of people in a group at below average you need something about your organization where more uneducated people will be in your group then educated. Like the military. Most people who join the military don’t have any other options, and a very large group of them come from backgrounds where they weren’t allowed to develop intellectually because of poor schooling, negative home social environments. So I can deduce that a large body of the military, over 50% would be on the lower side of average.

Regardless, I said a lot, not most. Which statically would be true, but I was stating that as an opinion. It is also true that most people in general are less than average... so you getting all offended doesn't really make sense. And I was speaking in terms of what people need for their prejudices. So if there a lot of less than average people in the military, someone who has a prejudicial view only needs to meet one of them to support their prejudice. It doesn’t matter if all the other people they met were average to above average. And if there are a lot of them there is a good chance everyone in the US has interacted with at least one less than average current of former military member.

With all the said I think the military is kind of like the bell curve you see in prison. Where the average is the least common, and the most common are the dumb and the smart. I also noticed in the military there seemed to be an inordinately large number of very smart people, as well as an inordinately large number of fairly dumb people. That middle average group didn’t seem to account for as many people as they should have.

Morrow, it is very clear that u have no idea what u are talking about. you dont have any experience in the military and probably not in prison either. you will find some of the best and the brightest people in the military today.
the military contains very specialized jobs that require intensive training to be proficient in. and that is what the us military does. it trains young men and women to be successful in the military and also later in life. look at the corporate world. if you have two people applyin for a job, with the same credentials, same grades, same everything, the employer will hire the one who was in the military 9 outta 10 times because he is more prepared for any situation. yes- the military is a good thing for people who are are undereducated, or cannot afford college, but inorder to be allowed in the military, you have to have a HS diploma. And the people who take advantage of entering the military may go on to attend and graduate college. but this is only a small section of the military, as this really applies to those who enlist and are not officers. you cannot be a "dumb" officer in the us military. you might make dumb decisions, but your intellect is going to be atleast average. morrow, please stop acting like you know statistics too. your examples are terrible and horribly interpretted, have u even takin a statistics class? sorry to be crude, but u are rediculous
 

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