• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

What Do You Do When the Oppressed Are Their Own Worst Oppressors?

LowDown

Curmudgeon
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Messages
14,185
Reaction score
8,767
Location
Houston
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
The worst oppressors of young black men are older black men who abandon their children. And the second-worst oppressors of young black men are other young black men. 94% of black murder victims are killed by blacks. The accelerating decline of the black family portends a much worse situation in the future.

...It is hard to avoid the conclusion that the issues that really concern African-Americans simply are too painful to discuss. Five years after the ultimate boost to self-esteem — the election of the first black president — things are getting worse faster. If black leaders — from Barack Obama and Eric Holder on down can’t talk about the real problems, the prospects for the future are frightening indeed.

Spengler » What Do You Do When The Oppressed Are Their Own Worst Oppressors?
 

HonestJoe

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Messages
5,471
Reaction score
2,787
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
How about stopping lumping people together in such generic groups as to create the ridiculous impression that they're "oppressing themselves". Until all Americans stop characterising individuals primarily on the basis of skin colour, I don't think you'll ever get anywhere with the range of social and criminal problems you're facing.
 

Aunt Spiker

Cheese
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
28,431
Reaction score
16,986
Location
Sasnakra
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
How about stopping lumping people together in such generic groups as to create the ridiculous impression that they're "oppressing themselves". Until all Americans stop characterising individuals primarily on the basis of skin colour, I don't think you'll ever get anywhere with the range of social and criminal problems you're facing.

Good advice. That's how I was raised.

I don't agree with it, though - why? Because I'm white. I can't do anything about 'black crime,' 'black broken families,' and 'black community unrest' - etc - because I'm white. Being white, I'm seen by many blacks as the reason why their lives are crime-ridden, why their families are so broken, and their communities are amid such unrest. This is true - because it's what I hear all the time from people that the black community holds in high regard. I'm an outsider: I'm told i don't understand their life, their history, and thus I'm pushed away no matter what I believe.

I don't believe race matters, but a lot of them DO think it does. What does that mean in the end? They have to help themselves. That's what they want. That's exactly what they've created. I, personally, had nothing to do with slavery and Jim-Crow but because maybe my great-great-great grandparents did, I'm negated. They will push away the law, claiming it's all racist. They will push away help and support if it comes from outside their community.

Do all of them do this? No. Of course not. But those that do, they're a vast majority.

They need to let go of racial angst and accept laws, accept reality, and accept HELP when it's given.

I do not believe the majority of US whites are racist - but a lot of blacks do think this. We're spited even when we've never held any of them in low regard.

What does this leave me feeling? Sorry that they won't let people through and won't listen to reason and try to let go of the past. Do I blame them? Not really.
 
Last edited:

MaggieD

Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
43,244
Reaction score
44,659
Location
Chicago Area
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
How about stopping lumping people together in such generic groups as to create the ridiculous impression that they're "oppressing themselves". Until all Americans stop characterising individuals primarily on the basis of skin colour, I don't think you'll ever get anywhere with the range of social and criminal problems you're facing.

Until the American people realize that blacks are being oppressed...until we are "allowed" to discuss their unique problems in a thoughtful way without being called racist...our government will be able to continue keeping them on the plantation-that-has-a-new-name.
 

MaggieD

Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
43,244
Reaction score
44,659
Location
Chicago Area
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate

Blacks must do this for themselves.

Demand an education for their children.
Stop having 70% of their children born to single moms.
Respect family.
Look at welfare as a hand up and not a job objective.
Embrace law enforcement and demand their neighborhoods be safe or move out of them.
Form their own neighborhood watch programs.

^^ Just these changes alone would make a tremendous difference in their communities.

Since change can only come from within, blacks who've "made it" need to step up, get involved and open their mouths about these problems.
 

Aunt Spiker

Cheese
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
28,431
Reaction score
16,986
Location
Sasnakra
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
Until the American people realize that blacks are being oppressed...until we are "allowed" to discuss their unique problems in a thoughtful way without being called racist...our government will be able to continue keeping them on the plantation-that-has-a-new-name.

Some problems that affect black communities also affect white communities: Economics.

Examples are Detroit and Gary, Indiana. They were bustling production communities. People flocked to them and they put families in the green. Until the economy and corporate business shifted away from these areas and now they're in decline.

It has nothing to do with the race majority who live there. It did not happen because they were black. It's a raw hand and it just happened. It's happened to majority-white and hispanic communities, too.

one article i remember reading for Cultural Anthropology class discussed drug-dealing in black communities as a career choice (loose interpretation being applied, I know) - but selling drugs brought families in the urban areas more money than trying to work outside of the community. According to different people interviewed for the article: working outside of the community (for a corporate office in the city, usually) meant that person was faced with extreme inner-community stereotyping and spite.

Should it NOT be that way? To me that seems just horribly wrong: to face a cold shoulder because you took a legal job that carried you out of the urban squalor.

It was sad to read that. With community pressure, they stay bound to it or they choose to sever those connections and break away.

Some choose to break away and they're better off for it, though they'd guilted into feeling like a race-traitor.
 
Last edited:

MaggieD

Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
43,244
Reaction score
44,659
Location
Chicago Area
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
Some problems that affect black communities also affect white communities: Economics.

Examples are Detroit and Gary, Indiana. They were bustling production communities. People flocked to them and they put families in the green. Until the economy and corporate business shifted away from these areas and now they're in decline.

It has nothing to do with the race majority who live there. It did not happen because they were black. It's a raw hand and it just happened. It's happened to majority-white and hispanic communities, too.

I don't agree with you. I agree that Detroit, Flint, Gary, and others have their own unique challenges. But poverty alone is not the problem. If money were the solution? There'd be no problem.
 

Aunt Spiker

Cheese
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 20, 2009
Messages
28,431
Reaction score
16,986
Location
Sasnakra
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
I don't agree with you. I agree that Detroit, Flint, Gary, and others have their own unique challenges. But poverty alone is not the problem. If money were the solution? There'd be no problem.

Agreed.

Once your main source of income (factory work) is taken away then what do you do?

That's when the 'self-help' or the community leaders (mayors, etc), need to step up and solve the problem. Individuals need to be proactive. In such situations, they're handed an extra raw deal because it was within their abilities to prevent it in the first place.

Some communities have solved the problem by pushing to bring in new employment. (Tax breaks and other incentives)

It's still a major hurdle and, no, it's not easy or pretty.

Most people in the US (regardless of race) would not be able to sort it out and figure out how to create a situation in which they can support themselves. It's not a natural component of survival, business minded people need to be around, willing, and able to take it on. That leads to a lack of education and a lot of other issues.
 

HonestJoe

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Messages
5,471
Reaction score
2,787
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
I don't agree with it, though - why? Because I'm white. I can't do anything about 'black crime,' 'black broken families,' and 'black community unrest' - etc - because I'm white.
Well first, that's rubbish! White people are perfectly capable of getting involved with addressing these problems - some already do. Is it difficult? Yes. Would you face discrimination? Oh, yes. Could you achieve something positive? Yes. Are you just making excuses because you don't really want to do it?...

Anyway, you miss my entire point. You don't address "black crime" or "black broken families", you address "crime" and "broken families". The root causes of those issues aren't skin colour and while there are certainly racial trends due to historical and social differences, there are still plenty of non-black Americans suffering from (and/or causing) them too. If anything, obsessing over "black crime" is racist against non-blacks.

I don't believe race matters, but a lot of them DO think it does.
Really? You've just written a whole post saying how race matters. Of course lots of black people think the same. Lots of white people do to. This flawed perception is itself a classic example of people on different ends of the spectrum calling it a "black problem" or a "white problem" when it's really an "American problem". You've a heck of a lot more in common that any of you care to imagine.

I do not believe the majority of US whites are racist - but a lot of blacks do think this. We're spited even when we've never held any of them in low regard.
I do believe the majority of US whites are racist. I believe the majorty of US blacks are racist too. Before you bite my head off, I also believe the majority of Brits are racist. It's human narture. How we deal with it is the key question.

You've got a vicous circle at the moment - blacks hold whites in low regard because whites hold blacks in disregard because blacks hold whites in disregard… Some (more, to be fair) people need to stand up and break this cycle. Again, it won't be easy and they will take a lot of flack from all sides but it's the only way I can see the mess you're all in getting significantly better.

What does this leave me feeling? Sorry that they won't let people through and won't listen to reason and try to let go of the past. Do I blame them? Not really.
They won't let you in, you won't let them out. Rip the damn door off it's hinges already.
 

LowDown

Curmudgeon
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Messages
14,185
Reaction score
8,767
Location
Houston
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
How about stopping lumping people together in such generic groups as to create the ridiculous impression that they're "oppressing themselves". Until all Americans stop characterising individuals primarily on the basis of skin colour, I don't think you'll ever get anywhere with the range of social and criminal problems you're facing.

Sorry, but the fact of the matter is that 94% of blacks murdered are murdered by other blacks. Being afraid to talk about it isn't helping. Ginning up hatred over the occasional rare white on black crime isn't helping. You guys are making it worse with this PC crap of yours.
 

HonestJoe

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Messages
5,471
Reaction score
2,787
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Sorry, but the fact of the matter is that 94% of blacks murdered are murdered by other blacks. Being afraid to talk about it isn't helping.
I'm not afraid to talk about anything. You're the only that only wants to talk about a subset of crimes based on the skin colour of criminal and victim. Don't you care about all the white victims of crime?

Ginning up hatred over the occasional rare white on black crime isn't helping.
Well stop doing it then.

You guys are making it worse with this PC crap of yours.
Trying to get people to consider anything other than skin colour when addressing criminal and social problems is PC? How is focusing exclusively on race actually going to solve anything? Do you actually want to solve anything or do you just want to moan?
 

LowDown

Curmudgeon
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 19, 2012
Messages
14,185
Reaction score
8,767
Location
Houston
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
I'm not afraid to talk about anything. You're the only that only wants to talk about a subset of crimes based on the skin colour of criminal and victim. Don't you care about all the white victims of crime?

Well stop doing it then.

Trying to get people to consider anything other than skin colour when addressing criminal and social problems is PC? How is focusing exclusively on race actually going to solve anything? Do you actually want to solve anything or do you just want to moan?

In general I'd agree with you, but you are ignoring recent events. Sorry, but that is PC bull****.
 

HonestJoe

DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 7, 2011
Messages
5,471
Reaction score
2,787
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
In general I'd agree with you, but you are ignoring recent events. Sorry, but that is PC bull****.
Yes I'm ignoring recent events, or at least the race-hate narrative a depressing number of Americans (from all sides) appear to have this self-destructive desire to impose.

Ignoring all of the social and cultural factors in crime would indeed be PC but that's not what I'm arguing for. Refusing to obsess over the skin colour alone of criminals, suspects and victims certainly isn't PC, it's common sense.
 

VanceMack

MSG Benavides TAB
DP Veteran
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
74,480
Reaction score
31,381
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Independent
Until the first words out of the mouths of people like Barack Obama, Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, Tavis Smiley, and all the other clowns that have jumped in to exploit this situation involve "What can WE do to create change and a better more positive future" as opposed to "we must have a conversation about how whitey is oppressing us and denigrating and devaluing the lives of young black people" then this is all moot. Major cities with majority black communities will continue to look like war zones thanks to the efforts of race mongering "community organizers". And hey...you know what? If thats how they continue to choose to respond...if that is the extent of their expectation...well...have another bite of that **** sandwich you have made for yourself. Nope...you cant have anything to wash it down with.

And for anyone that says "oh...thats not what they are doing..this isnt just about whitey, blah blah blah..." well...before you start in with it...you might want to consider why the nation has been wrapped up in the Trayvon Martin situation and has completely ignored dead children in say...Chicago, or the 11,000 plus black people that have died by black on black violence since the Trayvon Martin situation happened. Or the fact that while the black community will mobilize over a perceived 'injustice' they wont so much as light a candle for the people literally dying on Obamas Chicago doorsteps.
 

thinkforyoursel

DP Veteran
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Messages
1,095
Reaction score
314
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Remember when I said ....America's single most significant historical event is centuries of slavery?

Remember that .....just take a look at this board and themes of the threads being discussed:

1) Racism In America Will Become A Part Of The Conversation.............................
2) What Do You Do When the Oppressed Are Their Own Worst Oppressors?
3) Race
4) Racism


These four are directly about race and racism......most of the rest is about the same thing.
The thread about Detroit's bankruptcy for example ...is simple a way to say how the lazy blacks destroyed the city.

Let me repeat .....America's greatest historical achievement is slavery!! If it wasn't why can't you people talk about anything else?

And why are whites so obsessed with racism?

Very simply....if you haven't amounted to much in this society..........if you can't you go out and feel like you're worth something ...and not just garbage to the American society? Hmmmm....why not cling and claw to ...skin color ..... make dam sure this issue never ends.

Frankly...it's getting boring.

And I guarantee ...if blacks try to ignore you people ...they'll fail ....you know why? Because the losers are going to find a way to get their attention....to bring it back up ...because ....what else do you have ....what else do you have??

This ....is why China will be the next super-power, they are so much more interesting as a nation and their intellectual superiority is so glaring.

Smell you guys later
 
Top Bottom