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What do conservative and liberal mean?

James972

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What do conservative and liberal mean?

1) Those like our Founders who believed in and wanted* personal freedom and thus a limited central government.

2) Those like our Founders who believed a central government was like a monopoly and thus would be mostly mistaken and inefficient at best, and genocidal at worst.

3) Those like our Founders who believed that personal freedom was not only most fulfilling ( pride in being self/family-supporting, etc.)* but was best for humankind because it forced every individual to support himself (like a link in a chain) and thus strengthen the entire community rather than identify some as dependent (or weak links) on others and not contributors.* *

Liberal are the opposite-right?
 

ttwtt78640

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What do conservative and liberal mean?

1) Those like our Founders who believed in and wanted* personal freedom and thus a limited central government.

2) Those like our Founders who believed a central government was like a monopoly and thus would be mostly mistaken and inefficient at best, and genocidal at worst.

3) Those like our Founders who believed that personal freedom was not only most fulfilling ( pride in being self/family-supporting, etc.)* but was best for humankind because it forced every individual to support himself (like a link in a chain) and thus strengthen the entire community rather than identify some as dependent (or weak links) on others and not contributors.* *

Liberal are the opposite-right?

* no **.
 

ttwtt78640

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can you say what liberals are???

I'll turn that over to the experts:

Liberal is commonly used as a label for political parties in a number of other countries, although the positions these parties take do not always correspond to the sense of liberal that people in the United States commonly give it. In the US, the word has been associated with both the Republican and Democratic parties (now it is more commonly attached to the latter), although generally it has been in a descriptive, rather than a titular, sense.


https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/liberal-meaning-origin-history
 

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I don’t know what US conservatism is anymore. It used to advocate fiscal restraint, American traditions and Judeo-Christian family values.

I think they are going through a transition phase right now and don’t have much of a guiding principle...yet.
 

James972

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I don’t know what US conservatism is anymore. It used to advocate fiscal restraint, American traditions and Judeo-Christian family values.

I think they are going through a transition phase right now and don’t have much of a guiding principle...yet.

???? conservatives are for limited government which means fiscal restraint, they are for the Christmas tradition obviously whilee liberals oppose where are you confused.
 

James972

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I'll turn that over to the experts:

were are talking about contemporary USA not dictionary defintion. YOu must learn to think on your own
 

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???? conservatives are for limited government which means fiscal restraint, they are for the Christmas tradition obviously whilee liberals oppose where are you confused.

Because that isn’t the way they seem to behave anymore. They don’t even give it lip service in conservative media anymore.
 

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What do conservative and liberal mean?

1) Those like our Founders who believed in and wanted* personal freedom and thus a limited central government.

2) Those like our Founders who believed a central government was like a monopoly and thus would be mostly mistaken and inefficient at best, and genocidal at worst.

3) Those like our Founders who believed that personal freedom was not only most fulfilling ( pride in being self/family-supporting, etc.)* but was best for humankind because it forced every individual to support himself (like a link in a chain) and thus strengthen the entire community rather than identify some as dependent (or weak links) on others and not contributors.* *

Liberal are the opposite-right?

The words 'conservative' and 'liberal' mean just what their users intend them to mean, neither more nor less. I believe Lewis Carroll pointed out something of the sort long time ago
 

James972

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Because that isn’t the way they seem to behave anymore. They don’t even give it lip service in conservative media anymore.

???? Trump cut taxes and regulation big time!!! Fox stands up for Christmas all the time!!!
 

James972

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The words 'conservative' and 'liberal' mean just what their users intend them to mean, neither more nor less. I believe Lewis Carroll pointed out something of the sort long time ago

our issue is what does conservatism mean. Do you have any idea???
 

ttwtt78640

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were are talking about contemporary USA not dictionary defintion. YOu must learn to think on your own

Do not attempt to tell me what I am talking about or must learn to do. HAND
 

James972

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Do not attempt to tell me what I am talking about or must learn to do. HAND

as per op why not tell us what conservative means, if you have any idea?
 

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our issue is what does conservatism mean. Do you have any idea???

I have lots of ideas about the meaning of 'conservatism' and I expect you do too. Our thoughts may coincide at some points and diverge at others.

One thing that makes me a conservative is my distrust of Political Theory. Theories are all too likely to end up encouraging their holders to use violence in an effort to enforce them.
 

James972

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I have lots of ideas about the meaning of 'conservatism' and I expect you do too. Our thoughts may coincide at some points and diverge at others.

One thing that makes me a conservative is my distrust of Political Theory. Theories are all too likely to end up encouraging their holders to use violence in an effort to enforce them.

can you tell me what conservative means??
 

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can you tell me what conservative means??

Political terms mean different things to different people , in different places at different times. I could proffer my own personal definition but what would be the point of that?
 

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I don’t know what US conservatism is anymore. It used to advocate fiscal restraint, American traditions and Judeo-Christian family values.

I think they are going through a transition phase right now and don’t have much of a guiding principle...yet.
I think that problem we have is that many assume "conservative" is synonymous with "Republican" and "liberal" is synonymous with Democrat. Neither is true. Toss in "progressive" and things really get messy.


I came across an article a few days ago, and unfortunately haven't been able to resurrect it for this post, which argued that those labels and the ideological spectrum the represent is obsolete and inaccurate. Republican, Democrat and Libertarian ate the names of POLITICAL PARTIES, not ideologies. The goal of political parties is to gain power and run government, NOT INFORCE IDEOLOGICAL PURITY. Republicans claim to be conservative yet continue to grow government, increase government interventions, and pay only lip service to reduced spending and working towards deficit reduction and balanced budgets. Dems claim liberalism but work for even more governmental interference and control than the republicans; the liberal ideals of individual freedoms and responsible, low taxes, free markets and limited government are totally ignored, except in the occasion campaign speech. Dems are progressives, not liberals; progressivism preaches bureaucracy, tight government control, good of society over individual freedom, and the inconvenience of Constitutionality.


I think most of us, at least those of us that think a little, would be hard pressed to assign ourselves to a single point on a one dimensional line from extra liberal to uber conservative.
 

James972

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Political terms mean different things to different people , in different places at different times. I could proffer my own personal definition but what would be the point of that?

if people know what a conservative is then they can decide if they want to be one. 1+1=2
 

James972

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I think that problem we have is that many assume "conservative" is synonymous with "Republican" and "liberal" is synonymous with Democrat. Neither is true. Toss in "progressive" and things really get messy.
.

absurd of course since 90% of conservatives will vote Republican, and 90% of liberals will vote democratic.
 

James972

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Republicans claim to be conservative yet continue to grow government.
absurd of course even Trump who is barely conservative just had massive tax and regulation cut to cut government. Do you understand?
 

James972

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pay only lip service to reduced spending and working towards deficit reduction and balanced budgets.

obviously if there was more support for those things they would implement them or lose their jobs. Do you understand?
 

James972

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Dems claim liberalism but work for even more governmental interference and control than the republicans;

actually more interference is what liberalism is all about. Embarrassing!
 

James972

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I think most of us, at least those of us that think a little, would be hard pressed to assign ourselves to a single point on a one dimensional line from extra liberal to uber conservative.

why??? our conservative founders were for freedom and liberals are for government. Where does that confuse you?????
 

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why??? our conservative founders were for freedom and liberals are for government. Where does that confuse you?????
You're making exactly the mistake I just wrote about - conflating "Democrat" with "liberal". And trying to assign today's interpretation of "liberal" and "conservative" is probably not accurate or meaningful; the founders were a complex group of people who achieved what they did through persuasion and compromise - and a ****pot of debate.
 

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actually more interference is what liberalism is all about. Embarrassing!
Sorry, I'm actually referring to the classic definition of liberalism.

Just a very brief explanation - if you're interested I encourage reading the entire article and following the links:

Classical liberals argued that individuals should be free to obtain work from the highest-paying employers while the profit motive would ensure that products that people desired were produced at prices they would pay. In a free market, both labor and capital would receive the greatest possible reward while production would be organized efficiently to meet consumer demand.[16]
Classical liberals argued for what they called a minimal state, limited to the following functions:
A government to protect individual rights and to provide services that cannot be provided in a free market.
A common national defense to provide protection against foreign invaders.[17]
Laws to provide protection for citizens from wrongs committed against them by other citizens, which included protection of private property, enforcement of contracts and common law.
Building and maintaining public institutions.
Public works that included a stable currency, standard weights and measures and building and upkeep of roads, canals, harbors, railways, communications and postal services.
 
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