OxymoronP
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Not sure how being called a choicer is an insult,... but ok.
Are you willing to do a question and answer session,... one question at a time?
One question per post?[
(I'm an atheist).
What I mean is this: The Constitution protects our rights as rational/thinking/feeling/conscious humans.
Rocks don't have rights because they aren't conscious.
Animals don't have the same level of rights as us because they aren't at the same "level" as us.
Of course protecting the sentient "person" entails protecting the physical "person", because afaik the sentient originates in the physical, but human rights wouldn't make sense if humans weren't aware.
I would have few qualms about letting someone who has absolutely ZERO chance of waking up from a deep dreamless coma die.
Biological person obviously, and no- the fetus inside the tummy is not a person.
To my poll question, "What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?" Oxymoron,... you responded
First question;
"Is your comment above just an opinion?"
:stop: Please provide a reference or source which supports this claim.
I'm curious.
How "aware" do you think my preemie daughter was, when she was born?
Two years ago, my wife suffered full cardiac arrest. She required 45 minutes of CPR. She was hit with the defib at least nine times. She lapsed into a coma immediately,... her EEG was flatline. No dreams, no thoughts, no pain, no awareness, no sentience.
Twice, the neurologist came to me to ask if I have discussed with the family, chaplins and other dr.s about removing her from life support. She was rated a 3 (the worse possible) on the Coma Scale.
She remained in the coma for 3 weeks.
She was on a ventilator which was doing 100% of her breathing for her.
She had catheters for her bodily functions.
A feeding tube inserted directly into her stomach... (originally she was fed through a tube in her nose)
She was posturing (feet and hands drawn up like someone with cerebal palsy)
While she was on the vent, she contracted two infections - Mrsa and Acinetobacter .
Her prognosis was not a good one at all.
I share all of this with you as a preface to a really important question. (Important to me, that is... and I hope you will give it some thought before answering.)
"What doctor would pull the plug on a comatose patient (like my wife) if that patient had even a fraction of the prognosis (forecast) that a pre-birth child has?"
First question;
"Is you comment above just an opinion?"
To my poll question, "What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?" Oxymoron,... you responded
Biological person obviously, and no the fetus inside the tummy is not a person.
First question;
"Is your comment above just an opinion?"
Obviously it is my interpetation of the Constitution, and obviously the Supreme Court agrees with that position. The Court values the mothers privacy rights over any potential human life inside the host.
I see.
Next question; If you were to be convienced that a "fetus inside the tummy" is a person,... would your interpretation of the Constitution change in regards to how it applies to abortion and or the Supreme Courts take?
If you were to be convienced that a "fetus inside the tummy" is a person,... would your interpretation of the Constitution change in regards to how it applies to abortion and or the Supreme Courts take?
Even If I am convinced that the fetus is in fact a person, that still creates the debate on whether the goverment has a right to force a delivery. I mean if the goverment can force a women to give birth, that implies that the goverment has control over a persons body, and eliminates any privacy protection. which puts me in a bind, if i consider the fetus a person for arguments sake (Which at this point i am not inclined to agree with) Then an abortion would be a crime, a crime which if the goverment prosecuted would infringe on a Americans integral privacy rights.....
So, if I am reading you correctly,... "one person have the right to kill another,.. so long as it is done in "privacy?"
Can you please what you just wrote and tell me how that (my interpretation) is different from what you just said?
Back on topic here---being Nakid in ones own home is just fine. Closing the blinds would be in good taste, but not mandatory. Frying bacon while nakid is a no-no, as one soon finds out. :mrgreen:
Oops, my bad folks---I left for a minute, and forgot where I was---never mind.The topic of this thread is "What aspect of a person does the Constitution protect?"
What ratio of Rum to Egg Nog are you having tonight?
To explore..
The constitution plainly states:
"All persons born or naturalized in the united states are...citizens..."
This means that Persons + Born(or naturalized) = Citizens.
So, according to this, there is a seperation between "born" and "persons", and when there is both, you achieve citizenship.
This doesn't that we should deny "life liberty, and the persuit of happyness" because someone isnt a citizens, rather, we should deny it or not deny it based on our values.
and my values, say no, we shouldn't.
Chuz--
(1) Is your position that you want the US to make all abortions illegal? (2) Should women who have abortions or the health professionals who offer that medical procedure go to prison?
1: No. Some abortions (life of the mother, rape, etc.) are in fact Constitutionally justifiable.
2: Yes. In some (but not all) circumstances, that is. Everyone has a right to due process, fair and speedy trial, face their accusers, jury of their peers, appeals, etc. So, realistically, every case is unique and the outcomes are not automatic.
I think your position on number 2 is untenable.
Not that it matters,... but
Why don't you think I can defend it?
Do you disagree that defendents have all the rights I listed?
Oh no! Not the G word! :mrgreen:Oh, thank God!
rofl just kidding)
:stop: Please provide a reference or source which supports this claim.
It protects my life, liberty, or property from being taken without due process of law.5th Amendment said:nor shall any person ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law
So you support poison ivy rights?And here I thought that rocks don't have rights just because they aren't alive.
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_intelligence"]This link[/ame] mentions some cognitive abilities, and limitations in dogs. In general dogs are more limited in their mental abilities than humans are.Again,.. if you have a reference for this... can you provide it? It's not that I disagree,... but I really would like to see something in the way of a reference that supports your claim here.
More aware than someone in my coma example.I'm curious.
How "aware" do you think my preemie daughter was, when she was born?
I suppose that very few would. Do you mind telling how things turned out?Two years ago, my wife suffered full cardiac arrest. She required 45 minutes of CPR. She was hit with the defib at least nine times. She lapsed into a coma immediately,... her EEG was flatline. No dreams, no thoughts, no pain, no awareness, no sentience.
Twice, the neurologist came to me to ask if I have discussed with the family, chaplins and other dr.s about removing her from life support. She was rated a 3 (the worse possible) on the Coma Scale.
She remained in the coma for 3 weeks.
She was on a ventilator which was doing 100% of her breathing for her.
She had catheters for her bodily functions.
A feeding tube inserted directly into her stomach... (originally she was fed through a tube in her nose)
She was posturing (feet and hands drawn up like someone with cerebal palsy)
While she was on the vent, she contracted two infections - Mrsa and Acinetobacter .
Her prognosis was not a good one at all.
I share all of this with you as a preface to a really important question. (Important to me, that is... and I hope you will give it some thought before answering.)
"What doctor would pull the plug on a comatose patient (like my wife) if that patient had even a fraction of the prognosis (forecast) that a pre-birth child has?"
Two years ago, my wife suffered full cardiac arrest. She required 45 minutes of CPR. She was hit with the defib at least nine times. She lapsed into a coma immediately,... her EEG was flatline. No dreams, no thoughts, no pain, no awareness, no sentience.
Twice, the neurologist came to me to ask if I have discussed with the family, chaplins and other dr.s about removing her from life support. She was rated a 3 (the worse possible) on the Coma Scale.
She remained in the coma for 3 weeks.
She was on a ventilator which was doing 100% of her breathing for her.
She had catheters for her bodily functions.
A feeding tube inserted directly into her stomach... (originally she was fed through a tube in her nose)
She was posturing (feet and hands drawn up like someone with cerebal palsy)
While she was on the vent, she contracted two infections - Mrsa and Acinetobacter .
Her prognosis was not a good one at all.
I share all of this with you as a preface to a really important question. (Important to me, that is... and I hope you will give it some thought before answering.)
"What doctor would pull the plug on a comatose patient (like my wife) if that patient had even a fraction of the prognosis (forecast) that a pre-birth child has?"
I suppose that very few would. Do you mind telling how things turned out?
What's that have to do with the topic?Thank you for a direct answer to my direct question.
You have earned a friend request if you are interested.
It has taken two years of therapy and recovery. My wife now breathes on her own, walks talks, showers and dresses herself (all with diminished capacities). She's very much the same person she was before... but some things have changed. (not all for the better). She still can not read, write, do math or anything like that above maybe a 2nd grade level. But she could have a conversation with you and understand what you are saying at almost any level.
For all that she has left to re-learn, she has to do so with a damaged brain.
I would guess that she's at between 60 and 70% of her old self and while I have hopes,.. I don't see how she will ever be completely independent again.
If a human is granted rights at conception then why should people who get raped be able to violate the life of the fetus? Same with incest.1: No. Some abortions (life of the mother, rape, etc.) are in fact Constitutionally justifiable.
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