What are we doing?

[Fantasea]

Why not drop the politics and simply acknowledge the amazing programs and amazing results they've achieved?

The organization is way bigger than the politics, and it is just idiotic to condemn them when they make people's lives so much better everyday.

Are you unable to digest the good that they do or are YOUR politics preventing you from being objective?

Yes, the NAACP has quite a history. However, the history of positive results came to an end a while back. Today, it is an embarrassment to the people it purports to represent.

 

[lamaror]

We need to stop Arab terrorism.


Equally important, we need to stop Bush Corporate Fascist Kill Kill Kill. Bush is hiring private mercenaries from Arab and other countries to torture Women, Children and others suspected terrorist for information. These mercenaries are sadistic and pure unamerican. America should feel shame and outrage.

Fu_k Bush, Cheney and traitor Rove. :blastem: :nukeum:

 

[Fantasea]

We need to stop Arab terrorism.


Equally important, we need to stop Bush Corporate Fascist Kill Kill Kill. Bush is hiring private mercenaries from Arab and other countries to torture Women, Children and others suspected terrorist for information. These mercenaries are sadistic and pure unamerican. America should feel shame and outrage.

Fu_k Bush, Cheney and traitor Rove. :blastem: :nukeum:

So listen, Sport, do me a favor, will ya? Tell me what that stuff is that you're smokin' and where I can get some?

Highs like that come few and far between.

:rofl

 

[cnredd]

So listen, Sport, do me a favor, will ya? Tell me what that stuff is that you're smokin' and where I can get some?

Highs like that come few and far between.

:rofl

He's not high, Fanty...

He's just drinking the Kool-Aid...

 

[MSgt]

"Fu_k Bush, Cheney and traitor Rove."

Ahhh......Fantasies, denial, and apologies. The Middle Eastern Cleric love our liberals.

 

[cnredd]

"Fu_k Bush, Cheney and traitor Rove."

Ahhh......Fantasies, denial, and apologies. The Middle Eastern Cleric love our liberals.

You said it best before GySgt...

"Your denial is their greatest weapon"

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Their greatest weapon is our bombs. They make for easier recruitment.

 

[26 X World Champs]

Their greatest weapon is our bombs. They make for easier recruitment.

I agree Gandhi! Sadly, the military might mindset that turns people on by being macho and gets their testosterone flowing is one of the great contributors to terrorist recruiters.

The Guns over Butter types will never agree, their only solution is to flatten our enemies through violence. It seems they are incapable of any solution other than war....and they also seem to think, IMHO, that if you disagree with them that war is the only solution that you're weak. They will never see the strength in peace.

 

[MSgt]

Champs you are confused. The problem isn't that we think war is the only answer. The problem is that you think hugs and kisses are the only answer. Diplomacy in the Middle East is too late. We let it slip away many Presidents ago. The zealot, rich Arab and dictator is in charge there. Diplomacy in the rest and bigger Muslim world is still a must, but we are not acting. India and Pakistan should be our focus of diplomacy, before the House of Saud can spread it's hate and "oil" controlling methods over other Muslim governments.

For the Middle East, a spark was needed. We gave that to them.

 

[Fantasea]

I agree Gandhi! Sadly, the military might mindset that turns people on by being macho and gets their testosterone flowing is one of the great contributors to terrorist recruiters.

The Guns over Butter types will never agree, their only solution is to flatten our enemies through violence. It seems they are incapable of any solution other than war....and they also seem to think, IMHO, that if you disagree with them that war is the only solution that you're weak. They will never see the strength in peace.

Perhaps you will be kind enough to furnish a list of the dictators, tyrants, and despotic oppressors who, left undisturbed, simply mellowed and treated their subjects with kindness.

These birds and their henchmen see anything but their complete destruction as a sign of weakness and capitalize on it at every turn.

They have always been willing to gamble that the rest of the world would be too busy, too selfish, or too uncaring, to "get involved". Eventually, they get their come-uppance, don't they?.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Champs you are confused. The problem isn't that we think war is the only answer. The problem is that you think hugs and kisses are the only answer.

The problem is that you think war is a possible answer.

For the Middle East, a spark was needed. We gave that to them.

And now the fires of some democratic revolution will spread throughout the middle east? It's a brilliant idea. Now people will not only be dying now, but will be dying for, conservatively, 2 generations to come. It will take ages to pound this problem out. So much time and what is infinitely more important so many lives. This is not acceptable. I understand the thinking that killing for revolution and democracy is more acceptable than dying in a peaceful overthrow of an evil dictator, but I don't think you will find success for many many years to come. I think you will only find more violence and hatred.

We've eliminated the moderates in Islam. America is either the savior or the Great White Satan, there is no middle ground. More and more men who are willing to kill and be killed to destroy American efforts are bred everyday, and if you think that they will stick to car bombs in Iraq and suicide bombings in London and stay the hell out of America, you're wrong.

 

[MSgt]

"if you think that they will stick to car bombs in Iraq and suicide bombings in London and stay the hell out of America, you're wrong."

I've made no such claim. I have claimed that the successes or failures of Iraq will not be immediate. I have claimed that any attack in America will go unclaimed by any government and those terrorists will not be harbored publicly by any Muslim government. Fear of American retaliation will cause those governments to throw those terrorists across their borders. Stirring the pot will always bring out the violence. Oh damn well. The longer we continued to tolerate, the harder and more violent it would have been. It needed to be stirred. Maintaining impotence, for fear of violent reprisal is not acceptable.

Of course war is a possible answer in some cases. Don't be obtuse. What governments do after war is not my concern. The war in Iraq has been over. The Middle East needs to take care of its own damn region for a change instead of feasting on each others weaknesses. After we leave, we'll see if they can do what every other nation around the globe does. (Europe with Bosnia / Kosovo being the exception.)

 

[26 X World Champs]

What governments do after war is not my concern. The war in Iraq has been over. The Middle East needs to take care of its own damn region for a change instead of feasting on each others weaknesses.

The belief that the war in Iraq is over mystifies me beyond words. Jut yesterday 59 Iraqis were blown up by a suicide bomber in a gasoline tanker.

The claim by some that we "won" the war is part of the problem. The denial that we are still involved in a deadly conflict leads to more war and more deaths.

The war is NOT over, and will not be for years to come. We need to figure out a way to turn over the responsibility to the Iraqis ASAP to prevent even more American deaths.

 

[MSgt]

It mystifies you because you will not face facts and you have no real world experience. I DO NOT mean that as insult or as an egotistical statement. There is no conflict except for the constant chasing of insurgents and Sunni by Marines from Fallujah - Najaaf - Fallujah - Syrian border. What is and has been occurring is mass murder upon their own civillians inflicted by a bunch of misguided "martyrs" that have been fooled by zealot clerics. Cowards target civillians. Iraq has chosen it's new form of government and their form of democracy and the rest of the Middle East leaders do not approve. These attacks that are killing 30 at a time are a bunch of temper tantrums by misguided fools that are counting on America to leave before Iraq is ready to protect itself and relying on Iraq to sucumb to fear. They do not attack American military except for the occasional suicide bomber. Their tactics mirror every terrorist attack since 1949 and is nowhere near a military action. They are criminals and thugs at best. You give them too much credit. You think I like having fellow Marines killed and seeing soldiers killed? You think any of us liked seeing American civillians murdered and kidnapped throughout the last couple decades? This enemy has always been there and we have tolerated them for far too long. The sad truth of this is that Iraq is a gamble and in the end, Iraq will make our spark worth it or not worth it. As long as the House of Saud flaunts its oil to the world while using Clerics to preach hate and blame their oppressions on western civilization, we will always be dealing with the ocasional terrorist attack.

There has been a plan in effect that will transfer security over to Iraqis. I have said this many times. I only know because of the pieces being moved around the board and certain occurrences, but there is a plan. If all works out, Iraq will be a strong ally in the end and Europe will benefit.

 

[akyron]

I think it would be most productive to fund independence movements that promote democracy.QUOTE]

Exactly how productive has this been in the past?

 

[akyron]

Did we capture him during Saddam's regime? If not, how exactly is it related to vandree's quote??

It was asked for and received.
One question. How are "WE" going to capture a terrorist "during" Saddams regime?

Yeah Saddam faced opposition and crushed it cruelly unlike the care bear US.

In 1987 the baath regime killed thousands of Kurds in Northern Iraq using chemical weapons. In 1992 the regime massacred thousands of opposition Shaiis in Southern Iraq and thousands of Kurds in Northern Iraq destroying whole cities and villages.

What reason do you have for taking these seven items to be representative of the thoughts and sentiments a billion people?

Reading the Koran a couple of times. How many times have you read this religious manual? Its a tough read. Boring and repetitive in some places and outright horrific in most.

 

[vandree]

Boring and repetitive in some places and outright horrific in most.

Doesn't sound any different from the Bible

 

[MSgt]

Yes, Vandree. The Koran is just like the Bible, therefore, all of the terrorists are just expressing themselves by murdering, which is their right. We should not confront it, because we wouldn't want to seem like hypocrits, because of what our ancestors did with regard to scriptures centuries ago. Who are we to defend ourselves by facing this Middle Eastern blood cult in light of our own religious witch burnings at Winston Salem. We should just look the other way when Americans are slaughtered and bow to the Muslim zealots that glorify the attack and pray that they won't do it again and again and again.

Your political correctness is sickening and your lack of conviction to act against tyranny serves the Muslim fundamentalists well.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

It was asked for and received.

Originally Posted by vandree

it is time to stop pretending that the war in Iraq has anything to do with the war on terrorism. As a matter of fact can you come up with an example of 1 terrorist attack for which an Iraqi was responsible?
Terrorism was unknown in Iraq during Saddam's regime.

​

Originally Posted by akyron

Badriyah, who is from Bayji, surrendered to the 201st Iraqi Army Battalion in Tikrit May 2. He is suspected of being a terrorist cell leader responsible for recent vehicle borne improvised explosive device attacks against Iraqi police, and other terrorist activities designed to undermine stability in and around Bayji, Tikrit and Samarra.

​

If you're willing to accept retroactive post hoc justifications that's your business. But, I'll still say that finding that terrorists have arrived since the invasion or have turned to terrorism since the invasion doesn't help the case that Iraq was about the GWoT.

There's a case to be made; but, you're not making it.

One question. How are "WE" going to capture a terrorist "during" Saddams regime?

That's exactly the point of my rhetorical and socratic question. This fella's an example of someone who was suspected of terrorism after the invasion. Hence his situation does nothing to rebut the assertion of vandree that "Terrorism was unknown in Iraq during Saddam's regime."

Like I said, there's a case to be made; but, you're not making it.

In 1992 the regime massacred ... thousands of Kurds in Northern Iraq destroying whole cities and villages.

Given that some of the folks who performed these massacres are on the US's list of terrorist organizations, what would you think about politicians who decide to support the terrorist organization involved this massacre?

How many times have you read this religious manual?

I've only made it through once. Have you also examined the hadith?

If one were to examine the Bible, do you think that she could accurately discern the thoughts and sentiments all the Christians in the world?

 

[akyron]

If one were to examine the Bible, do you think that she could accurately discern the thoughts and sentiments all the Christians in the world?

One "should" be able to get some of the basics like "Thou shall not kill".


There is a lot of crazy stuff in the old testament as well but then I think all religions are a few beers short of a six-pack anyway.