What are we doing?

[debate_junkie]

Nope.

It started here: 1949

We didn't start any of this. We just waited too long to retaliate. Perhaps if we did something decisive back when Iran held American lives hostage for 444 days, we wouldn't be in this mess today. But, like most everything before 9/11, we did nothing and relied on failed diplomacies. I wish diplomacy worked with these people. I don't really care to go back to Iraq next year, but these people know nothing but violence.

Speaking of Iran, how about the news that possibly one of the hostage takers is now their leader? Looks like a new fight on our hands soon. I'm pretty sure, if he harbored that much ill will then, he's still carrying it.

 

[vandree]

"Establishing repor between Marines(or any American for that matter) and detainees. Give them trials. Educate them. Give incentives and rewards for getting educated. Show them what Americans are like up close and personal and show them that we are not evil and that we are not their enemy."

During WWII:
"Hanns Scharff was primarily an American 8th and 9th Air Force Fighter pilot interrogator. He was considered the best of the interrogators at Dulag Luft. He gained the reputation of magically getting all the answers he needed from the prisoners of war, often with the prisoners never realizing that their words, small talk or otherwise, were important pieces of the mosaic. It is said he always treated his prisoners with respect and dignity and by using psychic not physical techniques, he was able to make them drop their guard and converse with him even though they were conditioned to remain silent. One POW commented that "Hanns could probably get a confession of infidelity from a nun." Hanns personally stepped into search for information that saved the lives of six US POWs when the SS wanted to execute them. Many acts of kindness by Scharff to sick and dying American POWs are documented. He would regularly visit some of the more seriously ill POWs and arrange to make their accommodations more humane. At one time the Luftwaffe was investigating him. After the war, he was invited by the USAF to make speeches about his methods to military audiences in the US and he eventually moved to the United States. "

http://www.merkki.com/new_page_2.htm

 

[MSgt]

Thanks for your help, but we are doing just fine. Just enjoy the securities of living in America. No matter what you feel, no Muslim country in the world will ever wish to be affiliated or have anything to do with sanctioning and harboring a terrorists group after how we retaliated. Nothing else really matters. It's all about American security and if some people get liberated, their feelings hurt, house bombed along the way, so be it.

"Speaking of Iran, how about the news that possibly one of the hostage takers is now their leader? Looks like a new fight on our hands soon. I'm pretty sure, if he harbored that much ill will then, he's still carrying it."

This is more of that danger with militant Islam being in control in the Middle East I keep referring to. In the last few days, we have seen the Egyptian Ambassador to Iraq kidnapped, and the Bahrain and Pakistan envoys were attacked. These people are so desperate about Iraq failing, that they are killing their own and ******* the rest of the Arab world off. Very ironic, considering the Arab world is what created these terrorists and their mentalities. Some people still choose to be blind to the greater problem that has been brewing in the Middle East. All we did was draw it out.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Thanks for your help, but we are doing just fine. Just enjoy the securities of living in America. No matter what you feel, no Muslim country in the world will ever wish to be affiliated or have anything to do with sanctioning and harboring a terrorists group after how we retaliated. Nothing else really matters. It's all about American security and if some people get liberated, their feelings hurt, house bombed along the way, so be it.

Truly a foriegn policy like that will end terrorism and put the Arab world at ease.

 

[MSgt]

Gandhi.......Finally...you are seeing it my way. Whew. :slapme:


It's only a spark. They have to want to change it bad enough and to put their behavior behind them. We can't do it all. All we can do is offer them a chance. Iraq has that and surrounding Muslim countries are watching for it's success or failure. Surrounding Muslim governments are desperately wanting it's failure. I wonder why that is? It's all about their power over their people.

 

[Gandhi>Bush]

Do you really think that fear and intimidation is going to make Muslim countries think twice before funding terrorism? Do you really think the number of terrorists will shrink and whither with the more countries you bomb? Do you really think that without funding that terrorism will vanish? They will find a way. We've seen the ingenuity and determination of these peoples' hatred first hand.

Offering them a chance, getting involved, helping them, is going to make terrorism vanish, but if you think occupying their country is what is needed in the form of help, you're wrong. You've got it backwards. You've got good intentions, but the notion that you will one day kill all of the terrorists, that one day terrorism will fade away for fear of the big and bad United States of America, frankly, it's IDEALISTIC.

 

[MSgt]

Hell yeah. After seeing what we did to the Taliban, no government will harbor terrorism. Even if the new Iranian leader gets wind of a terrorist group planning things from his country, he will kick them out for fear of American retaliation.

We won't kill all of the terrorists. Re-eduction is the goal. They have to see that we are not the bad guys and that their leadership is the source of their oppressions. Do you even know what American occupation is? We have hospital camps all over the place where we take in the sick and care for them for free. We have civillian contractors all over the country building structures like schools, MOSQUES, water lines and power lines to out lying villages, and other such things. The Iraqi people see us as friends. The Arab Sunni is another story, but that doesn't stop them from bringing their sick children to us. We are doing more there than what is reported.

It isn't about bombing them into submission. Our target is the Insurgency, not the people of Iraq. The people of Iraq are our intel. They don't want this insurgency there either. If we attacked into Syria where all of the insurgency is coming from, we would take the terrorist fight where it belongs. Of course, we would still have some insurgerncy who's goal is to thwart the new Iraqi democracy, but it would be manageable by the Iraqi Army. Right now, North West Iraq has become the battleground for Islamists terrorists to fight Americans. The way I see it, better on their soil than ours.

 

[MSgt]

"Ah ha, so we're going to scare people willing to blow themselves up into not blowing themselves up in fear that we might blow them up?"

I guess some people just can't wrap their brain around what is so clearly to see by the ones that matter. Don't worry about it. It's not your sweat and blood. Just watch your news and read your Internet blogs and continue to allow yourself to think that you know anything. Recruiter's down the street. Join up and see for yourself what you can't understand. (Join the Corps though. They are better trained and your survival rate is higher and you won't have to be a part of the embarrasements that keep coming out of the National Guard Reserve.)

They are coming from where they have always been. Everywhere in the Middle East and across the Syrian border. Syria isn't harboring them as a organized group and no country ever will. They are coming across by ones and tens at a time. They are like mesquitos. The Taliban backed and harbored Al-Qaeda. This will not ever happen again, because they know that all we need is an excuse. We'll secure America's future despite what some of you would do to it.

 

[vandree]

Syria isn't harboring them as a organized group and no country ever will. They are coming across by ones and tens at a time.

And that's the reason why we will never win the war on terrorism. Terrorism obviously is not a country that you can actually bomb into submission. As a matter of fact terrorism exists in every country and it has been around as long as governments have been.

Terrorism is a "technique" used.

 

[Fantasea]

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/29/opinion/29hochschild.html?


Someone needs to stop these people. We say how evil the terrorists are for targeting women and children, but are we any better when we imprison children, put them in isolation and torture them?

A few quotes from the article:


What can an 8 years old have done? I doubt he/she has any info to offer


Are these people human?

The bleeding heart liberals who write for the NYT will never show photos of, or mention, the products of the Medrassa who from the age of five or six are indoctrinated with hate for all persons except followers of Islam.

Teen aged boys and girls have been dressed in "bomb vests" and sent to board buses in Israel. Perhaps in Iraq, too. Children younger than that carry AK47s. Innocent looking kids make ideal couriers.

I wonder how many Americans are dead because they were "suckered" by a cute little Iraqi kid with a grenade in his pocket?

Because the countries of the coalition don't stoop to those levels, what makes you believe that the terrorists don't either?

These stories are published with but one aim. That is to disparage the Administration and encourage protest.

 

[stsburns]

Gandhi>Bush-I understand that you may have a problem with such comparisons. While I believe that the alleged actions of the marines at Guantanamo Bay are far too timid for the likes of Nazis, they are far too brutal for men like United States Marines or any one representing America. I believe that was the aim of Senator Durbin's remarks.

Gitmo=Torture, are you happy now? I live in a city of Marines if you said anything like that in a public place around here, you would know you were asking for trouble. About Durbin how do we know his relations with the Marine Corps, and has he ever met a Marine. I just wanted to check?

Establishing repor between Marines(or any American for that matter) and detainees. Give them trials. Educate them. Give incentives and rewards for getting educated. Show them what Americans are like up close and personal and show them that we are not evil and that we are not their enemy. It will take longer of course, but such actions will live up to and further our reputation. If we are the Good Guys, we must prove it.

Oh and we will! OO Ra! For all the Marines serving and protecting our lives in America, and in Iraq. I support you fully both the soldiers and the war they are fighting! Carry on!

 

[MSgt]

"And that's the reason why we will never win the war on terrorism. Terrorism obviously is not a country that you can actually bomb into submission. As a matter of fact terrorism exists in every country and it has been around as long as governments have been.

Terrorism is a "technique" used."

You don't have a clue. It doesn't matter how long it has been around. The worst it's been has been over the last 50 years and we have allowed it to grow and to be used by religious zealots that have convinced the likes of you that it is, and should be, accepted. These oppressed people need to start taking control of their own lives and start shunning the perversions of their Clerics. Terrorism is a region's and a religion's problem and apologizing to them after every act of human sacrifice to Allah, only encourages the next act. Of course, as long as that next act isn't against one of your family members, you'll continue to voice against their executions and for their right to execute other people's family members.....right?

 

[vandree]

YOu have to be kidding. Terrorism is not confined to a region and/or religion.
I never said it should be accepted, I just said that the war on terrorism is just BS and can never be won, because you don't even know who or where your enemy is.

 

[cnredd]

Within a day of the horrific multiple bombings in
London, the G8 announced a $3B grant to the
Palestinian Authority. The symbolism of this
connection may be lost on some Westerners, but
it clearly sent a powerful message to terrorists
and potential terrorists: namely, that terrorism works.

There were no grants announced to the Tibetans, who
have been occupied more brutally and for a longer
period of time than the Palestinians. The Tibetans,
however, have never resorted to terrorism.

The Palestinian Authority, and its leaders, are
the godfathers of international terrorism. They
developed airplane hijacking into a high art.
They invented the high-profile murder of athletes
and other prominent public figures. Were it not
for their employment of terrorism, the Palestinian
cause would today be regarded as the fifth-rate
human rights issue that it rightfully is. But
because the Palestinian leadership has always used
terrorism (from the 1920’s on) as the tactic of
first resort, their cause has received worldwide
recognition.

The primary cause of terrorism is not occupation,
humiliation, or desperation. If it were, the Tibetans
would be the greatest terrorists. The primary cause
of terrorism is that it works. And it works because
the craven international community gives into it and
rewards it. It also works because too many Islamic
leaders praise it and too few condemn it. Terrorism
will continue as long as potential terrorists believe
they will benefit from using that tactic.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by GySgt:
You don't have a clue. It doesn't matter how long it has been around. The worst it's been has been over the last 50 years and we have allowed it to grow and to be used by religious zealots that have convinced the likes of you that it is, and should be, accepted. These oppressed people need to start taking control of their own lives and start shunning the perversions of their Clerics. Terrorism is a region's and a religion's problem and apologizing to them after every act of human sacrifice to Allah, only encourages the next act. Of course, as long as that next act isn't against one of your family members, you'll continue to voice against their executions and for their right to execute other people's family members.....right?
__________________

Sempre fool, your the reason people get their heads cut off! And you caused 9/11? If we didn't export so much hate and stupid western commercialism, we wouldn't be having this phoney war on terror.

 

[vandree]

The primary cause
of terrorism is that it works.

Unfortunately that is very true especially now that news travels so fast

 

[Fantasea]

Sempre fool, your the reason people get their heads cut off! And you caused 9/11? If we didn't export so much hate and stupid western commercialism, we wouldn't be having this phoney war on terror.

Your signature line is quoted below:

...how many ears must one man have, before he can hear people cry?
...how many deaths will it take till he knows, that too many people have died?
...how many years can some people exist, before they're allowed to be free?
...how many times can a man turn his head, pretending he just doesn't see?
- Bob Dylan

Bob Dylan
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.​

.....Bob Dylan (born Robert Allen Zimmerman May 24, 1941) is widely regarded as one of America's greatest popular songwriters. Much of his best-known work is from the 1960s, when his musical shadow was so large that he became a documentarian and reluctant figurehead of American unrest. The civil rights movement had no more moving anthem than his song "Blowin' In The Wind".

Considering the lyric you use to illustrate, and identify with, your social position, you must acknowledge that the words are directly applicable to the plight of the oppressed Iraqis before George Bush took the pity implored by the first two lines and acted resolutely, as demanded by the next two lines.

"Operation Iraqi Freedom". Could a better name have been chosen for what you call "a phoney war on terror"?

Not even Bob Dylan could improve on that.

 

[Naughty Nurse]

Altogether now:


How many barrels of oil must an oppressed country have,
Before GWB will invade?

 

[MSgt]

Oil in Bosnia?
Oil in Somalia?
Oil in HOA?
Oil in Cuba?
Oil in Afghanistan?
Oil in Kosovo?
Oil in Haiti?

Altogether now:

How many other countries must we deploy Marines to before the narrow minded get off the tired oil soap box from the one country that has oil?

Perhaps you are referring to the countries in Africa where we should invade instead of Iraq. Either way, will you be there beside me? No? - Then shut up.

 

[stsburns]

YOu have to be kidding. Terrorism is not confined to a region and/or religion.
I never said it should be accepted, I just said that the war on terrorism is just BS and can never be won, because you don't even know who or where your enemy is.

Foreign Terrorist Organizations

17 November
Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)
Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade
Ansar al-Islam (AI)
Armed Islamic Group (GIA)
Asbat al-Ansar
Aum Shinrikyo (Aum)
Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA)
Communist Party of Philippines/New People’s Army (CPP/NPA)
Continuity Irish Republican Army (CIRA)
Gama’a al-Islamiyya (IG)
HAMAS
Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM)
Hizballah
Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU)
Jaish-e-Mohammed (JEM)
Jemaah Islamiya Organization (JI)
Al-Jihad (AJ)
Kahane Chai (Kach)
Kongra-Gel (KGK)
Lashkar e-Tayyiba (LT)
Lashkar i Jhangvi (LJ)
Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG)
Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK)
National Liberation Army (ELN)
Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command (PFLP-GC)
Al-Qa’ida
Real IRA (RIRA)
Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC)
Revolutionary Nuclei (RN)
Revolutionary People’s Liberation Party/Front (DHKP/C)
Salafist Group for Call and Combat (GSPC)
Shining Path (SL)
Tanzim Qa’idat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn (QJBR)
United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC)
Source1
Source2
As for defeating them, we should at least try, instead of holding up a white flag and giving up.

 

[stsburns]

Sempre fool, your the reason people get their heads cut off! And you caused 9/11? If we didn't export so much hate and stupid western commercialism, we wouldn't be having this phoney war on terror.

Blame the soldiers and not the Terrorists, what planet are you from again? ( :beam: ) No Marines did not cause 9/11, go back to your planet! Might I add that it was the media that helped with "hate", and not marines! The war is not phoney, you are, look at the previous post. :mrgreen:

 

[vandree]

Foreign Terrorist Organizations

17 November
Abu Nidal Organization (ANO)
Abu Sayyaf Group (ASG)
Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigade
Ansar al-Islam (AI)
Armed Islamic Group (GIA)
Asbat al-Ansar
Aum Shinrikyo (Aum)
Basque Fatherland and Liberty (ETA)
Communist Party of Philippines/New People’s Army (CPP/NPA)
Continuity Irish Republican Army (CIRA)
Gama’a al-Islamiyya (IG)
HAMAS
Harakat ul-Mujahidin (HUM)
Hizballah
Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan (IMU)
Jaish-e-Mohammed (JEM)
Jemaah Islamiya Organization (JI)
Al-Jihad (AJ)
Kahane Chai (Kach)
Kongra-Gel (KGK)
Lashkar e-Tayyiba (LT)
Lashkar i Jhangvi (LJ)
Liberation Tigers of Tamil Eelam (LTTE)
Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG)
Mujahedin-e Khalq Organization (MEK)
National Liberation Army (ELN)
Palestine Liberation Front (PLF)
Palestinian Islamic Jihad (PIJ)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP)
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command (PFLP-GC)
Al-Qa’ida
Real IRA (RIRA)
Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC)
Revolutionary Nuclei (RN)
Revolutionary People’s Liberation Party/Front (DHKP/C)
Salafist Group for Call and Combat (GSPC)
Shining Path (SL)
Tanzim Qa’idat al-Jihad fi Bilad al-Rafidayn (QJBR)
United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia (AUC)
Source1
Source2
As for defeating them, we should at least try, instead of holding up a white flag and giving up.

Sure we know the names of the organizations, but you have to agree with me that they don't keep and make public a list of members. Moreover the members are not in only one place, but are spread practically all over the world

 

[Fantasea]

Sure we know the names of the organizations, but you have to agree with me that they don't keep and make public a list of members. Moreover the members are not in only one place, but are spread practically all over the world

Are you suggesting that we simply follow the solution espoused by the socialist-lib-dems; close eyes, bend over, grab ankles, smile?

 

[ShamMol]

Are you suggesting that we simply follow the solution espoused by the socialist-lib-dems; close eyes, bend over, grab ankles, smile?

Um...that doesn't even make sense.

What he is saying is we can't just go out and arrest all the people because we don't know who the hell they are.

Hey Fant, question-do I call you pro-war just because you are a conservative? No? Great! Stop calling me a person who would just bend over and take it up the ass. Thank you for your time.

 

[Fantasea]

Um...that doesn't even make sense.

What he is saying is we can't just go out and arrest all the people because we don't know who the hell they are.

It seems to me he is saying, "If we pick up our marbles, go home, and forget about the whole thing, maybe it will go away."

Hey Fant, question-do I call you pro-war just because you are a conservative? No? Great!

I don't mind what I'm called so long as I'm not called late for meals.

Stop calling me a person who would just bend over and take it up the ass.

I don't recall having called you such a thing. However, if one decides that a shoe fits, one has the choice of whether one wishes to wear it.

Thank you for your time.

You're welcome. Always willing to oblige.