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What are Trump's real choices?

My dream:

1) One time opportunity to get legal status and work your way to become a citizen. If you have no other legal issues besides no papers you would have up until a specified date in the near future to get legalized.

2) Mandatory e-verify at all levels and heavy fines for anyone caught hiring illegal immigrants.

3) No benefits for any household that cannot prove citizenship or legal status for all members of the household.

4) Secured boarder. No wall.

5) More reform for seasonal immigrants that our farmers need and depend on and people with expired visas. Not quite sure exactly how this can be handled but I am open to ideas.

That's just kind of a start off the top of my head and not really going into too much detail.

IOW, rubber stamp citizenship.
 
When you reject an idea not on its merits but simply because "the other guys" want it, you've lost and America weeps.



Yeah but arbitrarily declaring something an "emergency" that's been going on for decades and will continue many years even if the wall was started today, with the explicit and stated intent of bypassing Congress certainly hasn't been cleared by the courts. You can 100% guarantee a challenge. Why do conservatives hate the Constitution so much?
Like the Democrats are doing on the wall

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On how much wall:
Aug. 2015
Reporter: How are you going to build a 1,900-mile wall?

Trump: Very easy. I’m a builder. That’s easy. I build buildings that are — can I tell you what’s more complicated? What’s more complicated is building a building that’s 95 stories tall. O.K.?
-- News conference in Dubuque, Iowa

Dec. 2015
In our case, we need really 1,000 miles. It’s 2,000 miles, but some is natural borders, natural barriers which are pretty good, not as good as the wall but pretty good; you know what, let’s use it.
-- Campaign rally in Manassas, Va.

On how much it'd cost:

On how tall the wall'd be:
  • Jan 2016: "Taller than the Great Wall of China [GWC]"
  • Feb 9, 2016: 35 - 40 feet
  • Feb 12, 2016: ten feet higher than he'd previously declared, not that it's clear what that prior height specifically was.
  • Mar 3, 2016: In one conversation/debate: 50 feet, 45 feet and 40 feet.
  • Mar 30, 2016: 35 feet, and getting higher all the time.
  • Jan 2018:
    "If you have a wall this thick and it’s solid concrete from ground to 32 feet high, which is a high wall, much higher than people planned. You go 32 feet up and you don’t know who’s over here. You’re here, you’ve got the wall and there’s some other people here."



His choices for getting a wall built are few to none now that he's shown his word is worthless and his "wall" specs are incoherent.

As recently as December 31, 2018, Trump wrote:
"An all concrete Wall was NEVER ABANDONED, as has been reported by the media."​
An "all concrete" wall won't gain funding, not from Dems or GOP-ers. Neither will Mexico fund it, which is another feature the wall is supposed to have; indeed that attribute was one that, even when challenged regarding its implausibility, he maintained he was sharp and able enough to get Mexico do pay because he was a far more capable negotiator than anyone else who was running for POTUS.

He later redefined what "Mexico will pay" means, making it a figurative assertion and saying he'd use policy changes to get Mexico to pay. In January 2017, he proposed using the tax reform bill (presumably the TCJA) to get Mexico to pay, but in August 2017, it was "one way or another." He's also indicated Mexico would pay via NAFTA, a treaty he aims to cancel. And, of course, there's this: "It’s an easy decision for Mexico: make a one-time payment of $5-10 billion to ensure that $24 billion continues to flow into their country year after year." What's Trump done to block the remittances? Nothing.





Trump, rather than clearly and unequivocally stating what exactly, even on basic details, he wants funded and then sticking to that, has vacillated to and fro. Just ten days before the above statement, Trump said his wall could be "artistically beautiful" steel slats. He also has stated that the wall could be and that border patrol personnel want see-thru barrier structures, however, that doesn't comport with the nature of concrete.

The key obstacle in making any progress past the border-security funding impasse is Trump. As before the last shutdown, Trump has failed to precisely articulate what the hell he wants so lawmakers know what to fund (or refuse to fund). The short is that for Trump, the wall is more a rhetorical political lever having a lifespan that ends the instant he signs legislation to build a wall or some other sort of border barrier....and frankly, the notion of a wall has already ended by some 60% or so of the electorate.

Simply put: After the FY 2019 border security fiasco, members of Congress on both sides of the aisle aren't keen to trust Trump, even after he's stated what he will agree to, which has a lot to do with why the legislative process apparently is "going nowhere."
 
Most Americans want the border secured.

A majority of Americans do want border control but do not want to pay for a wall that will do nothing to secure the border. I know you think that rump's base are the only ones you have to satisfy, but they aren't. Sorry about that.
 
Like the Democrats are doing on the wall

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Not only the Dems don't want a stupid wall that will do nothing to secure the border, but many GOpers and independents. Why should we the people use our limited tax money to pay for a promise made by trump just so he can satisfy his base? It will cost over 25 billion dollars which can be used elsewhere for real solutions to problems we have as a country.
 
A majority of Americans do want border control but do not want to pay for a wall that will do nothing to secure the border. I know you think that rump's base are the only ones you have to satisfy, but they aren't. Sorry about that.

I doubt that the majority of Americans who want the border secured are as opposed to building a permanent barrier as you like to propagandize.

I mean, can you hear yourselves? "We want the border secured, but NOT a wall!" You know how stupid that sounds?

I'm pretty sure your opposition to a permanent barrier is because "Truuuuuuuuump!".


The funniest part, is when we ask you how to secure the border we get crickets. :lamo
 
I doubt that the majority of Americans who want the border secured are as opposed to building a permanent barrier as you like to propagandize.

I mean, can you hear yourselves? "We want the border secured, but NOT a wall!" You know how stupid that sounds?

I'm pretty sure your opposition to a permanent barrier is because "Truuuuuuuuump!".


The funniest part, is when we ask you how to secure the border we get crickets. :lamo

Do you realize how stupid you sound when you, like Trump, believe what you want instead of what is true? Most Americans do not want the wall, period. The are smart enough to know it is a waste of money.
 
Do you realize how stupid you sound when you, like Trump, believe what you want instead of what is true? Most Americans do not want the wall, period. The are smart enough to know it is a waste of money.

I realize you just your butt spanked (figuratively) and you're left with no other option but to start slinging insults.
 
Nope. His authority to declare national emergencies has already been adjudicated in the Exec.Branch's favor, and when the anti-Constitution 9th Circus Court decides it know what's best for us all...again, it will be fast tracked to the USSC...and decided in the president's favor, per the Constitution.

Laughable
 
My dream:

1) One time opportunity to get legal status and work your way to become a citizen. If you have no other legal issues besides no papers you would have up until a specified date in the near future to get legalized.

2) Mandatory e-verify at all levels and heavy fines for anyone caught hiring illegal immigrants.

3) No benefits for any household that cannot prove citizenship or legal status for all members of the household.

4) Secured boarder. No wall.

5) More reform for seasonal immigrants that our farmers need and depend on and people with expired visas. Not quite sure exactly how this can be handled but I am open to ideas.

That's just kind of a start off the top of my head and not really going into too much detail.


BINGO!!!!!

basic common sense

and for the record im not even against a wall or more barriers but they are just PART of the plan and SECONDARY if not deeper in the plan because a wall doesnt fix jack squat . .

if i snapped my fingers right now and a 30 foot wall magically appeared coast to cost the majorty of illegal immigrants and drugs still gets in to the country because it doesn't get here via illegal secret southern board passage.

thats why theres no intelligent, sound and logic argument for the wall to be the focus of any illegal immigration and reducing drug traffic movement because the wall doesnt fix either of those issues lol

it can be part of the discussion but its low on the list and not worth shutting down the government and certainly not worth a national emergency because if its truly an emergency we will still have one after the wall is done. ;)
 
Worth noting that even Hill Republicans are warning Trump not to test their resolve on an issue that puts them in such a box that gives them no opportunity to support him. Throwing Article 1 off the cliff edge puts them out of a job and they know it. The Hill is not going put itself on the bread line for Donald's stupid wall which is effectively what throwing Article 1 off the cliff edge does.

The base can scream till hell freezes over, there will be no added Wall and no funding for it unless Trump comes up to Congress under terms of regular order and provides exact details for what he wants to build and where and justification for same. That is not a matter of days process and probably doomed anyway. The GOP does not want this thing, let alone Dems. Trump has boxed himself into such a corner now that even Pelosi really has no rational for bailing him out.

Trump may well decide to call ANYTHING including a beaded curtain on the border a victory but the Dems are not gong to help him out of the mess he has made for himself. He has no leverage.

The issue for the GOP is to not be pushed into a corner where they are forced to drop Trump's pants around his ankles. They don't want to do that. But they will not have a choice. The votes for a refusal on this absurd idea of a National Emergency are there on the Hill and I suspect they might even have the 2:3 votes to overturn a Trump veto if he does veto.

The GOP's absolute worst nightmare is Trump to National Emergency. Vote on the Hill to reject (easy to come by) followed by Trump veto followed by not having the 2:3 votes on the Hill to override. That would send it to the Courts which will have no choice but to defend Article 1 as this is nothing more than a direct attack on Article 1 and everybody with a brain knows it. That would be an utter immeasurable disaster for the GOP with all of it very likely to roll out just this way.

They GOP has a shot at recovery if they muster the 2:3 vote to override a veto of a Hill rejection of the National Emergency. They are toast if they DON'T muster the 2:3 votes only to see it cut down in the Courts. The base is simply not big enough to allow the GOP to survive that sort of debacle. Only the true whack jobs that actually are some part of Trump's base are hearts all aflutter and joy about all of this chaos and nonsense. Nobody else thinks this makes any sense at all!

For the record, what flimflam Lindsey Graham says no longer matters. He joins Rand Paul on the loony side of the board for those playing at home. When you lose Sen Cornyn of Tex as a Republican, you've lost.
 
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Not only the Dems don't want a stupid wall that will do nothing to secure the border, but many GOpers and independents. Why should we the people use our limited tax money to pay for a promise made by trump just so he can satisfy his base? It will cost over 25 billion dollars which can be used elsewhere for real solutions to problems we have as a country.
Why should trump give any of the stupid things you want?

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
When you reject an idea not on its merits but simply because "the other guys" want it, you've lost and America weeps.



Yeah but arbitrarily declaring something an "emergency" that's been going on for decades and will continue many years even if the wall was started today, with the explicit and stated intent of bypassing Congress certainly hasn't been cleared by the courts. You can 100% guarantee a challenge. Why do conservatives hate the Constitution so much?

In other words you admit that Democrats are playing partisan politics in denying Trump a wall when they were perfectly fine with walls before Trump became president.
 
I realize you just your butt spanked (figuratively) and you're left with no other option but to start slinging insults.

Are you that stupid, do you think you can say stuff without proof. Everyone on this board now knows that a majority of Americans do not want a wall, except of course, those that only believe Trump. After something like having old 8,000 lies in the last two years, I would think no one would trust Trump's word, even the stupid.
 
In other words you admit that Democrats are playing partisan politics in denying Trump a wall when they were perfectly fine with walls before Trump became president.

I would think that building fences near cities is not exactly building walls. And the idea Trump has is to build a wall from sea to shining sea at the cost of what, an additional 25 billion dollars. Not only do the Dems not want a wall, byt a majority of Americans do not want a wall and certainly do not want to cough up the 25 billion to pay for it. If you are so interested in building a wall, go to the top 1% and have them give back the 25 billion they got in tax breaks. It will be a drop in the bucket to the amount they are getting in the Trump tax cut.
 
Are you that stupid, do you think you can say stuff without proof. Everyone on this board now knows that a majority of Americans do not want a wall, except of course, those that only believe Trump. After something like having old 8,000 lies in the last two years, I would think no one would trust Trump's word, even the stupid.

More insults. That just proves my point.
 
Nope. His authority to declare national emergencies has already been adjudicated in the Exec.Branch's favor, and when the anti-Constitution 9th Circus Court decides it know what's best for us all...again, it will be fast tracked to the USSC...and decided in the president's favor, per the Constitution.



Have a citation to support this claim? What was the case that was "adjudicated"?
 
My dream:

1) One time opportunity to get legal status and work your way to become a citizen. If you have no other legal issues besides no papers you would have up until a specified date in the near future to get legalized.

2) Mandatory e-verify at all levels and heavy fines for anyone caught hiring illegal immigrants.

3) No benefits for any household that cannot prove citizenship or legal status for all members of the household.

4) Secured boarder. No wall.

5) More reform for seasonal immigrants that our farmers need and depend on and people with expired visas. Not quite sure exactly how this can be handled but I am open to ideas.

That's just kind of a start off the top of my head and not really going into too much detail.

I like a lot of it...but....

1. Offering amnesty to those here, and citizenship in a short time? No....over 20 years maybe....and that is if their record is clean, and they come out of the shadows now. If there are any crimes in their past, they get sent packing. If they want to decrease the time from 20 years, they can apply to join armed forces. If accepted, and after a minimum of eight years of service, they are granted citizenship.

2. E-verify only works for companies that use it. We don’t have a national program, and too many people work on the shadow economy....it will help, but it has to have more teeth and must be made mandatory for EVERY employer no matter what.

3. Love it...

4. How? How do we secure the wall and keep 300-500k from just crossing annually? And that is a low estimate. If we do your #1 it will be second time....there won’t be a third. How do we keep this from happening again? When Reagan gave amnesty promises were made also.....and those were never kept. I want assurances this time, those promises will be kept....and to me, the wall is the only way to make it much much harder for them. Will some still make it? Yep....but will the same amount? Nope

5. Sure....and a reform of the entire visa program. We allow over a million legal immigrants into our country every year. We need to make it a little faster, and a little easier to apply. We want and need immigrants from everywhere....they keep fresh ideas and fresh blood coming to America....maybe add an additional half million a year to those numbers

Those are my thoughts....
 
Trump has plenty of choices he can make. Does not seem disposed to make good ones. Apparently, he is going to El Paso on Monday to continue to make his Wall case. That is a bad decision on his part. El Paso is and has been a "safe" city since at least the 1990's if not even before that, before there was any physical border anywhere on the border. In fact El Paso's crime rate went up slightly after their section of wall was built in 2008.

El Paso is a ridiculous place for Trump to try to continue to make his Wall argument and El Paso is a ridiculous choice as a city he wants to pick on for that purpose. I suspect that once again it will play well for "his crowd" who will see fewer bleach white faces than they are used to seeing. Lets face it. That is enough to get his base's blood boiling.
 
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