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What are atheist values?

The usual ad hominem nonsense. You have not provided any evidence that even suggests that evolution has any serious scientific flaws. You just give your opinion and is everyone to believe you because you are so smart and have checked it out and used to be an atheist. That is the gist of your so-called argument.

David we were discussing and I was responding to, your claim " The universe can have a material explanation. It does". I demonstrate the absurdity of this so you then go off on a tangent about evolution? you're all over the place, get a grip.
 
David we were discussing and I was responding to, your claim " The universe can have a material explanation. It does". I demonstrate the absurdity of this so you then go off on a tangent about evolution? you're all over the place, get a grip.
No, you only demonstrated the absurdity of your argument.
 
In another thread, Valery referred to “atheist values”, no doubt in a derogatory manner.
So let’s make it a thread to do a deeper dive.

I’ll start. My concept of the reality of the physical universe is gained through science.
My ethical concepts are gained through Humanism, which is the understanding that we humans need to develop the values which will allow us to live in a harmonious society. No murder, no stealing, and an absolute minimum of lying are the foundation. Respect for one another and for life, per se, are also necessary.
There. That’s a start.


Realize there is good and evil and try to do good as often as possible. I am the kind of idiot who goes back to a store (even online) if they forgot to ring something up on the cash register. My view is that if you go back to complain you paid to much, you have to go back to say when you paid too little.

That is just one example. Try and respect others but don't let people walk all over you. Don't be too cowardly to stand up for your views and your rights, but don't exploit your rights.

All crime is wrong but there are crimes that are much worse than other, the death penalty is immoral and human rights have to be respected. Freedom of speech is great, but freedom to discriminate is not something that one has to just always accept. If you say in the privacy of your own home that all immigrants are evil then fine, be an idiot but when someone shouts this to someone in a store or something like that, well then fines might be appropriate.

I support freedom to choose (both in abortion, marriage and euthanasia) but not freedom to have weapons. But that view is purely for my country. There are few hunters (but hunters who have a license should be allowed to own guns), nobody needs guns to protect themselves from predators in the Netherlands and I am just not a fan of weapons. BUT that is purely in my country, not making a comment about US gun laws.

For the rest we atheists do not have that many other views than non-atheists. There are liberal atheist, conservative atheists, communist atheists, social democratic atheist and even racist atheists. We are not that different from other people, we just know gods do not exist.
 
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I cannot quote you because you did not answer the question, if you think you did then correct me and show me the post where you did so.

So then how could I be "that person"????


You remind me of the person who was unable to answer the question "how can something unnatural arise naturally?", oh hold on...wait...oh my, you are that person!


Or do you assume that if a person doesn't respond to you it's because they can't? :rolleyes:
 
How many conversations are we going to see people start pretending that religion originated values?

(Hate to break it to you but various societies figured this out long before bronze age myths made their way in to the Abrahamic Religions.)
 
[Snip]

For the rest we atheists do not have that many other views than non-atheists. There are liberal atheist, conservative atheists, communist atheists, social democratic atheist and even racist atheists. We are not that different from other people, we just know gods do not exist.

I was mostly with you till the last bit I highlighted there. Atheists, by definition, don't know god doesn't exist, we just haven't been convinced that a god or gods do exist. That's an important distinction. A-theist, without theism. Not making the claim no gods exist. I am convinced to a high degree of probability that god/s don't exist, but nobody can know one way or the other.
 
I certainly am not saying that...what I am saying is it's the way we were made/created, whatever you wanna call it...a sense of good and bad...a conscience/moral compass that is innate...in all humans, not only a select few...unless of course there is something innately wrong/flawed with that person's moral compass, then that is a different story...
 
I certainly am not saying that...what I am saying is it's the way we were made/created, whatever you wanna call it...a sense of good and bad...a conscience/moral compass that is innate...in all humans, not only a select few...unless of course there is something innately wrong/flawed with that person's moral compass, then that is a different story...
Not just humans show qualities that we attribute to morality. All social animals show some of what we would call morals to an extent, some even extend those to animals outside of their species.
 
Not just humans show qualities that we attribute to morality. All social animals show some of what we would call morals to an extent, some even extend those to animals outside of their species.
True but I think animals operate more on instinct, whereas humans have the power of reasoning of what is right and wrong...
 
True but I think animals operate more on instinct, whereas humans have the power of reasoning of what is right and wrong...
Humans act on instinct as well, but we are able to reason ourselves out of them, just as dogs or other animals can be trained to ignore theirs.
 
Humans act on instinct as well, but we are able to reason ourselves out of them, just as dogs or other animals can be trained to ignore theirs.
Therein lies the difference...they have to be trained...humans have the ability to understand what they are learning...animals act on reward...
 
I was mostly with you till the last bit I highlighted there. Atheists, by definition, don't know god doesn't exist, we just haven't been convinced that a god or gods do exist. That's an important distinction. A-theist, without theism. Not making the claim no gods exist. I am convinced to a high degree of probability that god/s don't exist, but nobody can know one way or the other.

As an atheist that is exactly what it means, there are no gods.

Atheism is in the broadest sense an absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is a rejection of the belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
 
Therein lies the difference...they have to be trained...humans have the ability to understand what they are learning...animals act on reward...
So do humans. About the only difference is we know it, and not even then all the time. The point is, morals are not objective in humans, or animals, we all draw a line somewhere as to what is acceptable or not. That line can move depending on what actions are necessary for our survival.
 
Humans act on instinct as well, but we are able to reason ourselves out of them, just as dogs or other animals can be trained to ignore theirs.

We also can rationalize our instinctive choices, to make it look like it's reasoning, but it's not , really.
 
As an atheist that is exactly what it means, there are no gods.

Atheism is in the broadest sense an absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is a rejection of the belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
Yes, in the narrowest sense, an atheist can claim there are no gods, but that is not what makes one an atheist. The lack of a belief is the key thing, not the positive claim that no god(s) exist. If you mean atheism that way, that only applies to you. When we're applying the atheist label to all atheists, we use the broadest definition not the narrowest.
 
We also can rationalize our instinctive choices, to make it look like it's reasoning, but it's not , really.
Thanks, that was what I was getting at, but it was at the tip of my brain.
 
Yes, in the narrowest sense, an atheist can claim there are no gods, but that is not what makes one an atheist. The lack of a belief is the key thing, not the positive claim that no god(s) exist. If you mean atheism that way, that only applies to you. When we're applying the atheist label to all atheists, we use the broadest definition not the narrowest.

That is your view, mine is different. In all senses of atheism it is not the fact that we have not been convinced gods do not exist, that is the cornerstone of agnosticism, not knowing if gods exist but you have not been convinced gods exist.

Atheism is not believing gods exist, not not being convinced whether or not they exist. They do not exist, full stop. Atheism means without gods, not without being convinced gods exist because that leaves open the possibility of them existing, which is again agnosticism, not atheism.
 
That is your view, mine is different. In all senses of atheism it is not the fact that we have not been convinced gods do not exist, that is the cornerstone of agnosticism, not knowing if gods exist but you have not been convinced gods exist.

Atheism is not believing gods exist, not not being convinced whether or not they exist. They do not exist, full stop. Atheism means without gods, not without being convinced gods exist because that leaves open the possibility of them existing, which is again agnosticism, not atheism.
No, again you're trying to narrow the definition, and make the claim for all atheists that we are claiming there is no god. That is something, but not Atheist. Gnostic Atheist maybe? And there's also agnostic atheists. Atheist means "without belief in any god." That is all, full stop.
 
So do humans. About the only difference is we know it, and not even then all the time. The point is, morals are not objective in humans, or animals, we all draw a line somewhere as to what is acceptable or not. That line can move depending on what actions are necessary for our survival.
Animals do not have the ability to conscious thoughts. That's why we don't expect them to suffer of bad conscience after killing a prey or killing defending their offspring etc. It would be fallacious to think animals have morals.
I may quote a professional on the field:

Human beings, unlike other animals, are able to reflect on and make judgments about our own and others' actions, and as a result, we are able to make considered moral choices.

We are not born with this ability. As the developmental psychologist Jean Piaget showed, children progress from a very limited understanding of morality to a more sophisticated understanding — involving, for instance, the consideration of the motives and intentions behind particular acts.(...) Many scientists reject any notion that human beings have abilities that are profoundly different from other animals. To do so, they fear, will give ammunition to creationists and spiritualists. But we do not need spiritual or "magical" explanations to grasp that the difference between human beings and other animals is fundamental rather than one of degrees.
 
Animals do not have the ability to conscious thoughts. That's why we don't expect them to suffer of bad conscience after killing a prey or killing defending their offspring etc. It would be fallacious to think animals have morals.


Humans are animals.
 
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