What’s the Matter with Men?

[SNOWFLAKE]

Suppose this thread could have been posted in General Discussions, but since it IS about a book, I put it here.

The article itself is a long read and so requires patience getting through it, BUT............ here it is anyways:

What’s the Matter with Men?

They’re floundering at school and in the workplace. Some conservatives blame a crisis of masculinity, but the problems—and their solutions—are far more complex.

www.newyorker.com

Some snippets:

What’s the Matter with Men?​

They’re floundering at school and in the workplace. Some conservatives blame a crisis of masculinity, but the problems—and their solutions—are far more complex.

Many social scientists agree that contemporary American men are mired in malaise, even as they disagree about the causes. In academic performance, boys are well behind girls in elementary school, high school, and college, where the sex ratio is approaching two female undergraduates for every one male. (It was an even split at the start of the nineteen-eighties.) Rage among self-designated “incels” and other elements of the online “manosphere” appears to be steering some impressionable teens toward misogyny. Men are increasingly dropping out of work during their prime working years, overdosing, drinking themselves to death, and generally dying earlier, including by suicide.

Richard V. Reeves, a British American scholar of inequality and social mobility, and a self-described “conscientious objector in the culture wars,” would like to skip past the moralizing and analyze men in the state that he finds them: beset by bewildering changes that they cannot adapt to. His latest book, “Of Boys and Men: Why the Modern Male Is Struggling, Why It Matters, and What to Do About It” (Brookings), argues that the rapid liberation of women and the labor-market shift toward brains and away from brawn have left men bereft of what the sociologist David Morgan calls “ontological security.” They now confront the prospect of “cultural redundancy,” Reeves writes.

The political right has eagerly filled the void. At the 2021 National Conservatism Conference, the Republican senator Josh Hawley gave a keynote speech on the crisis of masculinity, in which he blamed “an effort the left has been at for years now,” guided by the premise that “the deconstruction of America begins with and depends on the deconstruction of American men.” Hawley, who is planning to expound upon his thoughts in a forthcoming book titled “Manhood,” argued that the solution must begin with “repudiating the lie that America is systemically oppressive and men are systematically responsible,” and with rebuilding “those manufacturing and production sectors that so much of the chattering class has written off as relics of the past.”

Sounds to me like an interesting book, and should be an interesting debate. Typically though, those who feel maligned (in this case men) might resort to angry rebuttals. We shall see.

 

[soylentgreen]

Suppose this thread could have been posted in General Discussions, but since it IS about a book, I put it here.

The article itself is a long read and so requires patience getting through it, BUT............ here it is anyways:

What’s the Matter with Men?

They’re floundering at school and in the workplace. Some conservatives blame a crisis of masculinity, but the problems—and their solutions—are far more complex.

www.newyorker.com

Some snippets:


“repudiating the lie that America ( and the rest) is systemically oppressive and men are systematically responsible,”

When did that become a lie?

argues that the rapid liberation of women and the labor-market shift toward brains and away from brawn have left men bereft of what the sociologist David Morgan calls “ontological security.”

Cannot even get past the first post without women being blamed for men's problems.

 

[Mach]

Interesting article.
I think they hit on a lot of the issues.

Men may have some growing up to do in the new society. Anyone like Josh Hawely whose solution is to roll back the clock to manufacturing jobs and telling men they aren't "oppressors", are bound to add nothing to the discussion IMO.

It's always interesting for sociologists to look into these issues, quantify them, and give us results. But I wonder what our track-record is for improving sociological issues? They seem *really* hard to overcome, in a relatively free society, where people distrust centralized ideas and objectives (like solving a particular sociological problem).

Large numbers of disaffected young men is kind of dangerous IMO. Look to Republicans to try and tap into that I suppose, as they already do to some degree.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

When did that become a lie?



Cannot even get past the first post without women being blamed for men's problems.

Those are the author's points of view, so you can agree with any, all, or none. I personally didn't read where women are being blamed for men's problems. Depends on context and how that one comment blends in with the rest of the author's theme.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Interesting article.
I think they hit on a lot of the issues.

Men may have some growing up to do in the new society. Anyone like Josh Hawely whose solution is to roll back the clock to manufacturing jobs and telling men they aren't "oppressors", are bound to add nothing to the discussion IMO.

It's always interesting for sociologists to look into these issues, quantify them, and give us results. But I wonder what our track-record is for improving sociological issues? They seem *really* hard to overcome, in a relatively free society, where people distrust centralized ideas and objectives (like solving a particular sociological problem).

Large numbers of disaffected young men is kind of dangerous IMO. Look to Republicans to try and tap into that I suppose, as they already do to some degree.

Retired now, but still keeping busy working part time, never had an issue with finding a job, never had an issue with my masculinity, and lived my life through all the changes (more power to women, minorities, members of LGBTQ). If indeed men are dropping out and getting discouraged, I don't get it. I have never had an issue. I suspect "placing blame" for some of their failures is what is affecting those men.

 

[HIP56948]

My thought: Some men just can't get past this >>>> Boasting and hollering, and not knowing that the only people they're
going to impress are themselves.
.

 

[soylentgreen]

Those are the author's points of view, so you can agree with any, all, or none. I personally didn't read where women are being blamed for men's problems. Depends on context and how that one comment blends in with the rest of the author's theme.

Yet I did point out where blaming women appears.
That women have become liberated is not an excuse for men to whinge about their problems.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Yet I did point out where blaming women appears.
That women have become liberated is not an excuse for men to whinge about their problems.

Of course women are being blamed, you don't think men would blame THEMSELVES, do you? However I doubt that author was blaming women. Likely he was paraphrasing how men think.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

My thought: Some men just can't get past this >>>> Boasting and hollering, and not knowing that the only people they're
going to impress are themselves.
.
View attachment 67435384

SOME men, I know a few SNOWFLAKES aren't like that

 

[Helix]

There isn't enough ball tanning going on.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

There isn't enough ball tanning going on.

Too much tanning shrinks the skin, so I think maybe you meant too much tanning going on

 

[Fishking]

Yet I did point out where blaming women appears.
That women have become liberated is not an excuse for men to whinge about their problems.

That's not what the author was saying. That like the dumbest possible take from it one could do.

 

[Fishking]

Suppose this thread could have been posted in General Discussions, but since it IS about a book, I put it here.

The article itself is a long read and so requires patience getting through it, BUT............ here it is anyways:

What’s the Matter with Men?

They’re floundering at school and in the workplace. Some conservatives blame a crisis of masculinity, but the problems—and their solutions—are far more complex.

www.newyorker.com

Some snippets:

Sounds to me like an interesting book, and should be an interesting debate. Typically though, those who feel maligned (in this case men) might resort to angry rebuttals. We shall see.

The attempt to paint it as if men can't adapt, especially in the face of "liberation of women" is ridiculous. Men have adapted to many more significant changes than that over history. Further, they didn't even propose what hurdle women being liberated even presented.

I think there are many things going on. One, boys are growing up hearing about how men are at fault for everything, which isn't going to do much for their self-esteem. Combine that with the fact there is zero encouragement for boys and men in society. Add in there that there isn't financial aid for men to seek higher education as another reason why there are less going that route. Further, many jobs that are more traditionally for men are much more subject to swings in the market (e.g. construction).

 

[grip]

Suppose this thread could have been posted in General Discussions, but since it IS about a book, I put it here.

The article itself is a long read and so requires patience getting through it, BUT............ here it is anyways:

What’s the Matter with Men?

They’re floundering at school and in the workplace. Some conservatives blame a crisis of masculinity, but the problems—and their solutions—are far more complex.

www.newyorker.com

Some snippets:




Sounds to me like an interesting book, and should be an interesting debate. Typically though, those who feel maligned (in this case men) might resort to angry rebuttals. We shall see.

They're a bunch of spoiled, pampered tech-weenies with no real-life experiences. People live on social media and video games nowadays.

Why in my day, we walked 10 miles to school in the freezing snow, barefooted! Grrr...

 

[grip]

There isn't enough ball tanning going on.

A Brazilian wax job will make a man out of you for sure.

 

[Risky Thicket]

The attempt to paint it as if men can't adapt, especially in the face of "liberation of women" is ridiculous. Men have adapted to many more significant changes than that over history. Further, they didn't even propose what hurdle women being liberated even presented.

I think there are many things going on. One, boys are growing up hearing about how men are at fault for everything, which isn't going to do much for their self-esteem. Combine that with the fact there is zero encouragement for boys and men in society. Add in there that there isn't financial aid for men to seek higher education as another reason why there are less going that route. Further, many jobs that are more traditionally for men are much more subject to swings in the market (e.g. construction).

In other words, you feel threatened that society has protected men from those evil women who threaten you.

You had a chance to address ball tanning and you blew it.

 

[Fishking]

In other words, you feel threatened that society has protected men from those evil women who threaten you.

You had a chance to address ball tanning and you blew it.

Your post makes zero sense in regards to what I posted. I mean...it's just astoundingly stupid to the point of not even know what to even make of it.

 

[Helix]

A Brazilian wax job will make a man out of you for sure.

nonononononono

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

The attempt to paint it as if men can't adapt, especially in the face of "liberation of women" is ridiculous. Men have adapted to many more significant changes than that over history. Further, they didn't even propose what hurdle women being liberated even presented.

I think there are many things going on. One, boys are growing up hearing about how men are at fault for everything, which isn't going to do much for their self-esteem. Combine that with the fact there is zero encouragement for boys and men in society. Add in there that there isn't financial aid for men to seek higher education as another reason why there are less going that route. Further, many jobs that are more traditionally for men are much more subject to swings in the market (e.g. construction).

JAYSUS man, all those excuses. No wonder some men are such wusses. Then there is me. Grew up in a racist family. Grew up in an era when women were starting to exercising their rights. Then along came the LGBTQ. All this, and somehow, miraculously, I never did without a job, ran my own business for 30 years, married and raised a son, am now happily retired. HOW on Earth did I manage ALL that since there is zero encouragement for boys and men? How did I manage ALL that with swings in the market?

Stop whining. Stop acting like a spoiled brat who looks to blame everyone else for your shortcomings. As the saying goes "Man up" and take responsibility for yourself. GAWD!!

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

They're a bunch of spoiled, pampered tech-weenies with no real-life experiences. People live on social media and video games nowadays.

Why in my day, we walked 10 miles to school in the freezing snow, barefooted! Grrr...

I doubt barefooted, but I get your drift. Nowadays they get dropped off at the front door in their parent's SUVs.

 

[Fishking]

JAYSUS man, all those excuses. No wonder some men are such wusses. Then there is me. Grew up in a racist family. Grew up in an era when women were starting to exercising their rights. Then along came the LGBTQ. All this, and somehow, miraculously, I never did without a job, ran my own business for 30 years, married and raised a son, am now happily retired. HOW on Earth did I manage ALL that since there is zero encouragement for boys and men? How did I manage ALL that with swings in the market?

Stop whining. Stop acting like a spoiled brat who looks to blame everyone else for your shortcomings. As the saying goes "Man up" and take responsibility for yourself. GAWD!!

Don't quote me with your ****ing idiotic posts. I'm here for real responses, not your POS drivel written on the screen.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

Don't quote me with your ****ing idiotic posts. I'm here for real responses, not your POS drivel written on the screen.

Now he slinks off into the weeds and backtracks. Let me quote you:

I think there are many things going on. One, boys are growing up hearing about how men are at fault for everything, which isn't going to do much for their self-esteem. Combine that with the fact there is zero encouragement for boys and men in society. Add in there that there isn't financial aid for men to seek higher education as another reason why there are less going that route. Further, many jobs that are more traditionally for men are much more subject to swings in the market (e.g. construction).

AND I said stop making excuses. Be a man. Take responsibility. Stop blaming everyone else. I quoted you correctly, used your OWN words.

 

[Fishking]

Now he slinks off into the weeds and backtracks. Let me quote you:

AND I said stop making excuses. Be a man. Take responsibility. Stop blaming everyone else. I quoted you correctly, used your OWN words.

It's not about making excuses. It's about the topic of the thread. Your response perfectly backs up what I said. You don't actually give two shits about what young men are going through and don't care to do anything about it.

 

[noonereal]

Suppose this thread could have been posted in General Discussions, but since it IS about a book, I put it here.

The article itself is a long read and so requires patience getting through it, BUT............ here it is anyways:

What’s the Matter with Men?

They’re floundering at school and in the workplace. Some conservatives blame a crisis of masculinity, but the problems—and their solutions—are far more complex.

www.newyorker.com

Some snippets:




Sounds to me like an interesting book, and should be an interesting debate. Typically though, those who feel maligned (in this case men) might resort to angry rebuttals. We shall see.

One word sums up the male of those born after 1980 in the USA.

Lazy.

 

[Phys251]

Suppose this thread could have been posted in General Discussions, but since it IS about a book, I put it here.

The article itself is a long read and so requires patience getting through it, BUT............ here it is anyways:

What’s the Matter with Men?

They’re floundering at school and in the workplace. Some conservatives blame a crisis of masculinity, but the problems—and their solutions—are far more complex.

www.newyorker.com

Some snippets:




Sounds to me like an interesting book, and should be an interesting debate. Typically though, those who feel maligned (in this case men) might resort to angry rebuttals. We shall see.

This is one of the differences between conservatives and righties.

Conservatives look inward. No matter how tough things get, they take responsibility for their own lives and give everything their all, even when they feel things are stacked against them.

Righties look outward. They're always looking for someone and something to blame. It's never their fault, it's always someone else's fault. Hell, they'll invent problems just so that they can have people to blame.

Righties need to learn to stop playing the blame game and learn to look within. You have a lot of potential if you will just use it!