What’s going on? Another Fox News host calls for assault weapon ban after...[W:234]

[LetsGoBrandon]

Re: What’s going on? Another Fox News host calls for assault weapon ban after Orlando

Why do you and others insist that reasonable regulation of guns is somehow the extreme measure of DISARMING THE PEOPLE?

I suppose that you did not read the Sarah Brady quote where she specifically admitted that the goal of HCI "hand gun control inc" is to ban all firearms through any means necessary.

 

[haymarket]

Re: WHOA! Finally, a couple Fox News pundits open the door to gun control!

I have stated my interpretation many times...and it is in agreement with the founding fathers and over two hundred years of legal scholars, judges and justices interpretations of it.

Once again: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.".

Both parts of that mean what they say. A well regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state. And the right of the people to keep and bear arms also means what it is says. Which part of "the right of the people" do you not understand? Where in the second amendment text do you see: "The right of the people to keep and bear arms, only if they join the militia"? The founding fathers make the intent quite clear. They intentionally included the right to bear arms as a safeguard in case the government they formed eventually became tyrannical. I am not the one playing games. You are just not paying attention.

I never said my interpretation was that the right only applied to the militia. It is you who are not paying attention.

 

[haymarket]

Re: What’s going on? Another Fox News host calls for assault weapon ban after Orlando

I suppose that you did not read the Sarah Brady quote where she specifically admitted that the goal of HCI "hand gun control inc" is to ban all firearms through any means necessary.

One person without any power in government. Big deal. Although I am sure she causes many on the far right to renew their lease at the corner of Slipper Slope Street and Paranoia Place.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Re: WHOA! Finally, a couple Fox News pundits open the door to gun control!

I never said my interpretation was that the right only applied to the militia. It is you who are not paying attention.

I am not sure you are aware of what you have been saying.

 

[haymarket]

Re: WHOA! Finally, a couple Fox News pundits open the door to gun control!

I am not sure you are aware of what you have been saying.

All you have to do is quote me.

Which you probably will NOT do.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Re: What’s going on? Another Fox News host calls for assault weapon ban after Orlando

One person without any power in government. Big deal. Although I am sure she causes many on the far right to renew their lease at the corner of Slipper Slope Street and Paranoia Place.

You are naive, aren't you? She was the driving force behind getting the Brady Bill, which was named after her husband passed. I would say that she wielded considerable power during the Clinton administration.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Re: WHOA! Finally, a couple Fox News pundits open the door to gun control!

You made the claim - it is up to you to support it.

this is from your article



The article throws out a figure of a possible 2 million. Since there are over 315 million people living in the USA - and even discounting those who are minors - that means that maybe 1% of adults own this military weapon. 99% do NOT.

That is hardly a sign of acceptance or that it is embraced by the American people. The word POPULAR does not apply.

LOL, Millions more have entered production since then and the AR-15 is the most popular rifle in the US.

https://www.nraila.org/articles/201...-in-2012-ar-15-production-up-over-100-percent

Gauging the number of these types of weapons in the United States is difficult, in part because the federal government does not track them specifically, and partly because so many different models are available.

The AR-15, based on the military's M-16 and M-4 models but without the full automatic capacity, undoubtedly is one of the most popular.

In 2012, Slate.com crunched numbers from a variety of manufacturers, as well as federal statistics on background checks, and extrapolated that nearly 3.3 million AR-15s were in the country. But that was before Newtown and calls for bans, which drove sales through the roof.

Military-style AR-15 rifles: 'The market is saturated'

 

[OpportunityCost]

Re: WHOA! Finally, a couple Fox News pundits open the door to gun control!

As a free and democratic based society, that is one of the issues we as a people must and should decide.

And I strongly suspect that the American people would side with my view on this and not yours. You want "foundation" on that?

Polls: Most in US Support Gun Background Checks, Assault Weapons Ban



and more "foundation"

Poll: Majority backs assault weapons ban | TheHill



The American people are clearly on my side on this question.

For background checks, not a ban. I'd tell you not to shift the goal posts but, lo and behold, you already have.

There is a clear and relevant roadmap to restricting firearms, its called amending the 2nd amendment. Making a law banning common use weapons is not that.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Re: What’s going on? Another Fox News host calls for assault weapon ban after Orlando

And the Heller decision explains in full detail why your reading of the 2nd Amendment is partially wrong. They even go into full detail about damn near every single word that is in the 2nd Amendment. Showing that the meanings in those words are the same today as the day that those words were first accepted into the Constitution. They used those meanings of those words, past precedent of how the courts have interpreted those words and historical facts to support that ruling. In other words a trifecta was used to beat down the anti-gun crowds dishonest interpretations.

Just thought I would leave this here: http://www.americanbar.org/content/...u3LinguisticsEnglishProfsnew.authcheckdam.pdf

Its the linguists brief on the Heller decision and you are quite correct and Haymarket is dead wrong in regards to the language and interpretation of the 2nd.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Re: What’s going on? Another Fox News host calls for assault weapon ban after Orlando

I have read it ...several times .... each and every word and what Scalia did to the English language and the Amendment was torturous at best and grossly dishonest at worst.

I would highly recommend you read the excellent book by Michael Waldman which has detailed critique of the decision and what was fundamentally wrong about it.

https://www.amazon.com/Second-Amendment-Biography-Michael-Waldman/dp/147674744X


Keep in mind I have no problem with the Court throwing out the DC law as overreaching. I agree that the right party won. But what Scalia then did was use that as a convenient excuse to reward the right wing for thirty years of advocacy that they had been campaigning for. Him making the case that an individual right had evolved is one thing that I can accept because history shows it to be correct. But his ignoring of the corollary to that reality --- that government also has evolved as the right has evolved and can pass reasonable laws regarding the right as long as it still can be exercised is inexcusable and makes the Heller decision completely one sided and dangerously out of balance in a civilized society.

I read an article by Waldman and he reaches very hard to show linkage between militias and the right to keep and bear. But he makes the typical error. Militias are dependent upon the right to keep and bear arms, both through historical precedent and a realistic view of how militias work. The right to keep and bear arms is not dependent upon the militia. The linkage works the opposite direction that is continually offered by those that want gun restrictions.

http://www.brennancenter.org/analysis/gun-laws-and-what-second-amendment-intended

 

[OpportunityCost]

Re: WHOA! Finally, a couple Fox News pundits open the door to gun control!

I never said my interpretation was that the right only applied to the militia. It is you who are not paying attention.

In post 269 you certainly alluded to that belief, perhaps you would clarify, instead of engaging in a partial statement and then being very unclear about what you are alluding TO.

 

[haymarket]

Re: What’s going on? Another Fox News host calls for assault weapon ban after Orlando

You are naive, aren't you? She was the driving force behind getting the Brady Bill, which was named after her husband passed. I would say that she wielded considerable power during the Clinton administration.

So she is one of your feared boogymen. Today is NOT the administration of William Jefferson Clinton.

 

[haymarket]

Re: WHOA! Finally, a couple Fox News pundits open the door to gun control!

LOL, Millions more have entered production since then and the AR-15 is the most popular rifle in the US.

https://www.nraila.org/articles/201...-in-2012-ar-15-production-up-over-100-percent



Military-style AR-15 rifles: 'The market is saturated'

By your own numbers - which admittedly are simply guesses - at least 98% of Americans do NOT own an AR 15. So how is that popular or common use?

 

[haymarket]

Re: WHOA! Finally, a couple Fox News pundits open the door to gun control!

For background checks, not a ban. I'd tell you not to shift the goal posts but, lo and behold, you already have.

There is a clear and relevant roadmap to restricting firearms, its called amending the 2nd amendment. Making a law banning common use weapons is not that.

How is a weapon not embraced by 98% of Americans common use?

 

[haymarket]

Re: What’s going on? Another Fox News host calls for assault weapon ban after Orlando

Just thought I would leave this here: http://www.americanbar.org/content/...u3LinguisticsEnglishProfsnew.authcheckdam.pdf

Its the linguists brief on the Heller decision and you are quite correct and Haymarket is dead wrong in regards to the language and interpretation of the 2nd.

By all means - what is it specifically you claim I am wrong about? Spell it out in plain English.

 

[haymarket]

Re: What’s going on? Another Fox News host calls for assault weapon ban after Orlando

I read an article by Waldman and he reaches very hard to show linkage between militias and the right to keep and bear. But he makes the typical error. Militias are dependent upon the right to keep and bear arms, both through historical precedent and a realistic view of how militias work. The right to keep and bear arms is not dependent upon the militia. The linkage works the opposite direction that is continually offered by those that want gun restrictions.

Gun Laws and What the Second Amendment Intended | Brennan Center for Justice

In other words, Waldman does NOT believe as you believe and must be dismissed.

 

[haymarket]

Re: WHOA! Finally, a couple Fox News pundits open the door to gun control!

In post 269 you certainly alluded to that belief, perhaps you would clarify, instead of engaging in a partial statement and then being very unclear about what you are alluding TO.

If you claim I believe something, simply quote me saying what you claim I believe. And 269 does not say anything other than the facts..... none of which you seem to be able to dispute.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: WHOA! Finally, a couple Fox News pundits open the door to gun control!

I never said my interpretation was that the right only applied to the militia. It is you who are not paying attention.

True, you seem to ignore any militia connection totally when it comes to the type of arms protected by the 2A.

 

[haymarket]

Re: WHOA! Finally, a couple Fox News pundits open the door to gun control!

True, you seem to ignore any militia connection totally when it comes to the type of arms protected by the 2A.

I would be open to hearing more about this MILITIA CONNECTION to learn what I am ignoring. Please elaborate.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Re: WHOA! Finally, a couple Fox News pundits open the door to gun control!

I would be open to hearing more about this MILITIA CONNECTION to learn what I am ignoring. Please elaborate.

Ownership of the type of (individual small) arms used by the military was exactly what the 2A was drafted to protect. The argument that a .223 round, fired from a semi-auto rifle, is somehow too much firepower for mere citizens to own is ridiculous.

 

[jonny5]

Re: What’s going on? Another Fox News host calls for assault weapon ban after Orlando

quoting him out of context is the same as a lie

Not sure how thats relevant.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Re: WHOA! Finally, a couple Fox News pundits open the door to gun control!

By your own numbers - which admittedly are simply guesses - at least 98% of Americans do NOT own an AR 15. So how is that popular or common use?

Common use is indicated amongst gun owners and by civilian police. You are trying to apply the numbers to a wider spectrum of people that don't use guns at all.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Re: WHOA! Finally, a couple Fox News pundits open the door to gun control!

How is a weapon not embraced by 98% of Americans common use?

Common use is indicated by millions in ownership amongst gun owners and use by civilian police. Your numbers, they aren't as accurate as you think they are because the production ramped up from 2011 to 2016.

 

[haymarket]

Re: WHOA! Finally, a couple Fox News pundits open the door to gun control!

Common use is indicated amongst gun owners and by civilian police. You are trying to apply the numbers to a wider spectrum of people that don't use guns at all.

Police DO NOT carry the weapons they do because of the Second Amendment. The carry the weapons they have because it is tools of the trade - just as it is all over the word regardless of what rights the people may have to weapons in other countries or not.

So you cannot figure those into the equation and it intellectual fraud to do so. Besides, police are NOT civilians no matter how badly the far right wants to rewrite the dictionary so they can get their hands on more powerful weaponry to better prepare for the day of right wing armageddon when they do battle with police and the armed services.

2% of our population embracing AR 15's is not common use... far far far from it.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Re: What’s going on? Another Fox News host calls for assault weapon ban after Orlando

By all means - what is it specifically you claim I am wrong about? Spell it out in plain English.

There is no dependency of the right to keep and bear arms on militias. Militias are dependent upon the right to keep and bear arms. Point of proof people are armed both before and after muster into a militia.