We've lost battle for Baghdad US admits

[Kasmos]

Vietnam, all over again....

 

[danarhea]

Re: Bush begins to admit to Iraqi failure.... finally

Vietnam, all over again....

This is the part that is most relevent:

The bleak assessment arrives as official thinking appears to be shifting on the war, with reports that a study group led by a Bush family loyalist and former secretary of state, James Baker, could be drawing up an exit plan for US forces in Iraq.

Cutting and running, are they?

 

[CurrentAffairs]

Re: Bush begins to admit to Iraqi failure.... finally

Who made up this thread title? I thought it had to match the link headline. I read the article but see nothing about Bush admitting failure.

 

[ProudAmerican]

Re: Bush begins to admit to Iraqi failure.... finally

aps should be here any second to complain!!!!!!

funny, if this guy had something good to say about Bush its my bet that she would have been here in mere minutes to bitch about the rules.

 

[Kasmos]

Re: Bush begins to admit to Iraqi failure.... finally

Sorry guys. As you can tell I'm relatively new to this forum.

The name of the article is "We've lost battle for Baghdad, US admits " If an admin can change the name (since I don't see where I can) then that's what it needs to be named to.

Now, anyone want to actually talk about this article?

 

[Stinger]

Re: Bush begins to admit to Iraqi failure.... finally

Sorry guys. As you can tell I'm relatively new to this forum.

The name of the article is "We've lost battle for Baghdad, US admits " If an admin can change the name (since I don't see where I can) then that's what it needs to be named to.

Now, anyone want to actually talk about this article?

OK

[FONT=Geneva,Arial,sans-serif] Suzanne Goldenberg in Washington
Friday October 20, 2006
The Guardian

[/FONT]

A day after George Bush conceded for the first time that America may have reached the equivalent of a Tet offensive in Iraq, the Pentagon yesterday admitted defeat in its strategy of securing Baghdad....................



Well the TET offensive was a major defeat for the NV forces. But it began the media offensive that led to loss of support on the homefront and the eventual withdrawal of our forces and the downfall, as predicted, of Vietnam.

Just as then the left has waged a winning campaign for our defeat in Iraq, they are winning the battle on the homefront with aids our enemies. This battle to split the country and NOT present a solid, unified force out to destroy our enemies has encouraged them to continue and certainly has prevented the commitment of other countries and the forces within Iraq including the new government to place any longer term hope in our resolve to win.

So yes the left and the Dems are winning the battle to turn this into another Vietnam and if they win this election we should begin an immediate withdrawl of our troops to prevent any further bloodshed for no purpose.

Then we can all hunker down an hope the next attack isn't in our own hometowns.

 

[GarzaUK]

Re: Bush begins to admit to Iraqi failure.... finally

This isn't another Vietnam. This is EXACTLY what happened when the British took over Iraq.

No time for pride here, the ME and lives are at stake. Admit defeat and try and limit the damage as much a possible is the way forward. The British didn't win in IRaq, by the looks of it the US isn't either.
The US has to bite the bullet and ask Syris and Iran for assistance in Iraq. Neither of them want an unstable neighbour.

Whatever happend though, the US CANNOT cut and run from this. You break it you own it.

 

[Binary_Digit]

Re: Bush begins to admit to Iraqi failure.... finally

This battle to split the country and NOT present a solid, unified force out to destroy our enemies has encouraged them to continue and certainly has prevented the commitment of other countries and the forces within Iraq including the new government to place any longer term hope in our resolve to win.

Are you serious? You're saying the anti-Iraq war crowd has prevented other countries from helping us in Iraq?? Wow, you're more dilusional than I thought.

 

[GarzaUK]

Re: Bush begins to admit to Iraqi failure.... finally

Are you serious? You're saying the anti-Iraq war crowd has prevented other countries from helping us in Iraq?? Wow, you're more dilusional than I thought.

lol stinger and aquapub, they are both exceptional in their bias lol

 

[Hoot]

Re: Bush begins to admit to Iraqi failure.... finally

lol stinger and aquapub, they are both exceptional in their bias lol

Gee...doesn't Stinger keep telling us he's not a republican?

He can't be biased then, can he? LOL

To show my total objectivity, (ahem) I'm still upset at the 33 House Dems who voted for Bush's "enemy combatant bill," and I applaud the 7 republicans who voted against it.

 

[Kasmos]

Re: Bush begins to admit to Iraqi failure.... finally

Well the TET offensive was a major defeat for the NV forces. But it began the media offensive that led to loss of support on the homefront and the eventual withdrawal of our forces and the downfall, as predicted, of Vietnam.

Just as then the left has waged a winning campaign for our defeat in Iraq, they are winning the battle on the homefront with aids our enemies. This battle to split the country and NOT present a solid, unified force out to destroy our enemies has encouraged them to continue and certainly has prevented the commitment of other countries and the forces within Iraq including the new government to place any longer term hope in our resolve to win.

So yes the left and the Dems are winning the battle to turn this into another Vietnam and if they win this election we should begin an immediate withdrawl of our troops to prevent any further bloodshed for no purpose.

Then we can all hunker down an hope the next attack isn't in our own hometowns.

You can blame it on us Democrats and lefties all you want, but in reality it is the fault of Bush and his administraiton.

Do I think we need to get out of Iraq? Of course not, Bush started a mess that we have to clean up. However, his administration is not doing nearly the job that they need to do. They are the EXECUTIVE BRANCH, and with the powers that come with it, they need to figure out a way to make "mission accomplished" a reality and not some false hope.

If we stay on the path that we're on right now, which is what Bush has said we have needed to do all along, this war is going to continue to drag on, and our soldiers will continue to die, along with thousands of countless innocent Iraqis that we have "liberated".....

Admit it, we have failed so far, and something needs to be changed so that this doesn't become more of a tangled disaster.

 

[Adrian]

Re: Bush begins to admit to Iraqi failure.... finally

This isn't another Vietnam. This is EXACTLY what happened when the British took over Iraq.

No time for pride here, the ME and lives are at stake. Admit defeat and try and limit the damage as much a possible is the way forward. The British didn't win in IRaq, by the looks of it the US isn't either.
The US has to bite the bullet and ask Syris and Iran for assistance in Iraq. Neither of them want an unstable neighbour.

Whatever happend though, the US CANNOT cut and run from this. You break it you own it.

Normally I would agree with you since to leave would result in another Afghanistan fiasco, in which a Taliban-like power takes over the country, thus descending into shariah law and a virulently anti-Western government. Unfortunately, it doesn't look as though it's even a choice anymore. Securing Iraq, however difficult, no longer appears to be an option.

 

[Tashah]

Moderator's Warning:

Kasmos... Thread titles in *Breaking News* must match the title contained in your OP citation. Please read the rules for this forum. Thread title has now been modified.

 

[Adrian]

Re: Bush begins to admit to Iraqi failure.... finally

Just as then the left has waged a winning campaign for our defeat in Iraq, they are winning the battle on the homefront with aids our enemies. This battle to split the country and NOT present a solid, unified force out to destroy our enemies has encouraged them to continue and certainly has prevented the commitment of other countries and the forces within Iraq including the new government to place any longer term hope in our resolve to win.

The "lib'rals are emboldening the enemy" argument never held any water for anybody except those addicted to Fox News. At some point, those in favor of the war are going to have to do away their whining, rationalization and finger-pointing and take responsibility for their own extremely bad policy. It is a common trait for young children to trip and get angry at anyone who observed him fall. "See what you made me do?" he screams.

Time to grow up, kids.

 

[Stinger]

Re: Bush begins to admit to Iraqi failure.... finally

Are you serious? You're saying the anti-Iraq war crowd has prevented other countries from helping us in Iraq?? Wow, you're more dilusional than I thought.

Why on earth would they join in with us when we don't show the resolve to win? When we are in such a split why would they commit to the battle? Are YOU serious? The propaganda campaign that has been waged has worked. Bush is a liar, his is an idiot, his cabinet doesn't know what it is doing, it is evil, we are torturers, Bush wants to be king, it'a all about oil, let's cut and run. The majority of the country says the war is wrong and we need to get out.

And you think other countries are going to send their forces when we are in such a disarray?

 

[Stinger]

Re: Bush begins to admit to Iraqi failure.... finally

Time to grow up, kids.

They better cause what do we do now? They are going to get what they want and they have no idea what to do. So we better hunker down and get ready, it's going to get a lot worse.

 

[Stinger]

Re: Bush begins to admit to Iraqi failure.... finally

You can blame it on us Democrats and lefties all you want, but in reality it is the fault of Bush and his administraiton.

Did the left and the Dems support the mission? Did they do everything in their power to see us to victory? What message did they send to those we fight?

Do I think we need to get out of Iraq? Of course not,

Well a little late to the party don't ya think?

Bush started a mess that we have to clean up. However, his administration is not doing nearly the job that they need to do. They are the EXECUTIVE BRANCH, and with the powers that come with it, they need to figure out a way to make "mission accomplished" a reality and not some false hope.

Well one of the key factors in that equation is presenting a solid resolve to win. The left and the Dems have convinced the majority it's the wrong war at the wrong time in the wrong place and destoryed the morale to win.

How do you get that back? Oh so NOW we start the real fight?

If we stay on the path that we're on right now, which is what Bush has said we have needed to do all along, this war is going to continue to drag on, and our soldiers will continue to die, along with thousands of countless innocent Iraqis that we have "liberated".....

Well if your side had another plan then you might have a point, but the oppositions plan all along has been that and that alone, oppose everything.

And now the counrty has lost it's will to fight, it's support for the war and we cannot win if the country does not support it.

Admit it, we have failed so far, and something needs to be changed so that this doesn't become more of a tangled disaster.

Admit it, we had successes, we had progress and all that will proably be for naught because we as a country could not band together to see it through.

 

[Stinger]

Re: Bush begins to admit to Iraqi failure.... finally

lol stinger and aquapub, they are both exceptional in their bias lol

Oh and you're not.

 

[Deegan]

We did not lose, as much as the innocent civilians have won, and we need to acknowledge that. We could win this thing in a week, but how many would die, more importantly, would it be worth it after that? I think we can divide and conquer, split them up, that the radicals have their state, and start a war of attrition.

 

[Binary_Digit]

Re: Bush begins to admit to Iraqi failure.... finally

Why on earth would they join in with us when we don't show the resolve to win? When we are in such a split why would they commit to the battle? Are YOU serious?

Leaders of other countries don't let the American people make decisions for them. Those countries chose to not join us in Iraq, not based on the opinion polls of Joe P. American, but because the justifications for war weren't compelling enough. That is what influenced the opinion polls of Joe P. American, so you have the cause and effect backwards.

 

[Sponge4u]

I do believe that the post war iraq plan has been a failure. But i do believe that all the press about us pulling out has emboldend (cant spell) our enemy.

Even the Iraqi pres said that it undermines his athority. They honestly believe that if they kill enough of us and show it on television that the american public will demand our troops come home. They have called us a "paper tiger" after somolia - Osma Binladin. But this argument doesnt rectify the current situation we are in.

But regaurdless how you feel we did invade thier country and overthrow thier leader leaving them now would leave thier country in a 3 way civil war. Iran and Syria do not want a independent Kurdish (Kurdistan) country so im afraid they would get the rough end of the stick. And you know the type of government Iran and Syria would promote - very very anti western. Why does no one talk about what we could do over there? Asking for help from Syria and Iran is insane imo. If the UN is so great why havnt they sent in peace keepers? regaurdless or not if they were for the invasion they have to know the turmoil that would rule if the US just pulled out.

I want to believe the American ppl wouldnt abandon the ppl we have sworn we came to help. I know there is ALOT of problems in Iraq but i believe just up and leaving without a stable government will create so many more.

 

[Adrian]

Re: Bush begins to admit to Iraqi failure.... finally

They better cause what do we do now? They are going to get what they want and they have no idea what to do. So we better hunker down and get ready, it's going to get a lot worse.

And if the democrats get in power and screw up, then they'll also get the boot. As it stands, it makes no sense to continue to keep the same people in power who have proven themselves unable to do the job. Based on predictions alone, the Bush administration's have all been wrong while the predictions of the opposition have been correct. Bush and co. thought that it would be a cakewalk while everybody else foresaw disaster. Now, if the democrats get into power, it will be interesting to see if they're as good at implementing policy as they are at making predictions.

You know what's really sad, though? I mean, what the real Greek tragedy is? For the past several years as we saw the Iraq war slowly turn FUBAR, opposers were always asked, "Well, do you think the world would be better off with Saddam in power?" And what's sad is that logically, the answer is, yes, the world, us in particular, would be a hell of a lot better if Saddam were back in power. That's the depths to which we've come. Our military is stretched so thin that we no longer scare the two countries who could really use some scarin' (Iran and North Korea), it's looking like Iraq is on a path towards becoming a full Shiite theocracy allied with Iran, Afghanistan is falling back into Taliban hands, and the world doesn't trust or respect us anymore. On top of that, the United States is going through its own crisis as it's increasingly suspending habeus corpus for a war with no clearly determinable objectives. So it's pretty simple to do a quick check on pre-Iraq War 2003, and see that things were a hell of a lot better then than they are now.

Are the democrats' ideas any better? Do they have ideas on how to execute the war on terror? I'm not certain, to be honest, but when one guy has so many bad ideas and screws everything up, I'm willing to try out the other guy's ideas.

 

[ProudAmerican]

And if the democrats get in power and screw up, then they'll also get the boot. As it stands, it makes no sense to continue to keep the same people in power who have proven themselves unable to do the job

noooo, lets put the people back in power that brought is the Iran hostage situation, Bosnia, Somolia, and yessssss THE BIG ONE Vietnam.

the problem with your argument is that the dems have ALREADY screwed up and proven innefective when it comes to national security.

 

[ProudAmerican]

I want to believe the American ppl wouldnt abandon the ppl we have sworn we came to help. I know there is ALOT of problems in Iraq but i believe just up and leaving without a stable government will create so many more.

well said....but make no mistake.....many of the very people that want us to think their party is the party of the poor, down trodden, and helpless, absolutely want to leave the Iraqi people with NOTHING but more problems, and NO FUTURE.

and the really pathetic part is, they want to do it for purely political reasons.

 

[Adrian]

noooo, lets put the people back in power that brought is the Iran hostage situation, Bosnia, Somolia, and yessssss THE BIG ONE Vietnam.

the problem with your argument is that the dems have ALREADY screwed up and proven innefective when it comes to national security.

And Bush hasn't completely FUBAR'ed it now?

For one, there isn't some sort of hive mentality where everybody has the same exact thoughts and the same exact plans. Just as republicans disagree among themselves as to the best course of action, so too do democrats. Second, I'm concerned with the present, with right now. And right now, the Bush administration has made our place in the world extremely precarious. There is nothing to gain from continuing with Bush and our spiralling descent in the Middle East. They have proven themselves completely unfit to do the job. Miring our military in Iraq so that we can't deal with other threats effectively, and spitting in the faces of the rest of the world so they're unwilling to help us has made the world more dangerous for us. This country can't take another two years of Bush. The best thing that could happen is if the democrats got into power this Fall, thus tying his hands. He needs to be stopped from doing more harm to our country than he already has.

As for the wars you mentioned, the only one that makes any sense as an analogy was Viet Nam, and that was a fully bipartisan effort.