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We've known Trump since the 80s. Biden for over 40 years. Can Rs flip enough voters in the last 16 days?

CaughtInThe

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And if so, how do they flip them? Or, does Trump already have enough votes to win?


As of October 12th...
"More than 10.6 million voters across the U.S. have cast their ballots....

With exactly three weeks until Election Day, early voting turnout both in person and via mail is far outpacing that of 2016. By Oct. 16 of the last presidential election, only about 1.4 million voters had cast a ballot."
 

Emily L

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As i mentioned in another thread, I don't think Russia will be able to do much. There's just too many people determined to vote, and the greater the number of votes, the move involvement it would take to influence the outcome.
 

Helix

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i think that most of us know who we're voting for or against.
 

Emily L

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I used to be a Republican until Trump. Now, it feels kind of funny to think of voting for the Democrat, so I'll just have to vote without thinking.
 

Craig234

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I used to be a Republican until Trump. Now, it feels kind of funny to think of voting for the Democrat, so I'll just have to vote without thinking.
That 'feels funny to think of voting for a Democrat' is the source of many Republican votes, because of people being propagandized and turned into a cult. Luckily, you overcame that and recognize trump is terrible. But the effects are still there, it looks like. How to counter that propaganda is a real question for the country.
 

Emily L

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That 'feels funny to think of voting for a Democrat' is the source of many Republican votes, because of people being propagandized and turned into a cult. Luckily, you overcame that and recognize trump is terrible. But the effects are still there, it looks like. How to counter that propaganda is a real question for the country.
Craig, I have a feeling that a lot of Republicans are going look back at Trump's administration and wonder why they burned all those bridges. They'll be spending the next ten or so years trying to explain to people why they turned their backs on so many of the principles they held before 2016. It will be painful to watch.
 

Craig234

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Craig, I have a feeling that a lot of Republicans are going look back at Trump's administration and wonder why they burned all those bridges. They'll be spending the next ten or so years trying to explain to people why they turned their backs on so many of the principles they held before 2016. It will be painful to watch.
It's the nature of con men and their suckers. Think Michael Cohen saying he would take a bullet for trump, and then coming to his senses and realizing he'd been an idiot. It's a little like 'mob mentality', when people find themselves jumping on the roof of a stranger's car destroying it caught up in the moment, and can't imagine what they were thinking later.

This is why the lessons from Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan are so relevant - those populations weren't that different from ours, and they got 'caught up' in manic 'movements' and did horrible things.

The US does not have a good solution to this. We rely on a rational, informed citizenry to make better choices. Now, we have this powerful media system and propaganda industry (with some overlap) and that breaks the 'rational, informed citizen' idea. It made it ripe for a trump and a Qanon and cries of 'the fake news press is the enemy' and 'deep state' lies.

What's scary is what a small percent of the trump cult you are as someone who has come to their senses. Fewer than 10%, perhaps 5%, have.

And these people could easily be led to support basically anything, as cult members. It shows some of the fragility of our country's politics that we did not realize. And while trump was a very effective con man, the problem doesn't go away when he is out of power. And all of this distracts from the country's real issue, plutocracy.
 

Court Jester

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And if so, how do they flip them? Or, does Trump already have enough votes to win?


As of October 12th...
"More than 10.6 million voters across the U.S. have cast their ballots....

With exactly three weeks until Election Day, early voting turnout both in person and via mail is far outpacing that of 2016. By Oct. 16 of the last presidential election, only about 1.4 million voters had cast a ballot."
First off don't believe the poll numbers, the race is much tighter than the polls suggest. Even the Biden campaign is warning the race is closer than the polls may suggest.

Trump will get every person who voted for him in 2016 and many more.
 

Emily L

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It's the nature of con men and their suckers. Think Michael Cohen saying he would take a bullet for trump, and then coming to his senses and realizing he'd been an idiot. It's a little like 'mob mentality', when people find themselves jumping on the roof of a stranger's car destroying it caught up in the moment, and can't imagine what they were thinking later.

This is why the lessons from Nazi Germany or Imperial Japan are so relevant - those populations weren't that different from ours, and they got 'caught up' in manic 'movements' and did horrible things.

The US does not have a good solution to this. We rely on a rational, informed citizenry to make better choices. Now, we have this powerful media system and propaganda industry (with some overlap) and that breaks the 'rational, informed citizen' idea. It made it ripe for a trump and a Qanon and cries of 'the fake news press is the enemy' and 'deep state' lies.

What's scary is what a small percent of the trump cult you are as someone who has come to their senses. Fewer than 10%, perhaps 5%, have.

And these people could easily be led to support basically anything, as cult members. It shows some of the fragility of our country's politics that we did not realize. And while trump was a very effective con man, the problem doesn't go away when he is out of power. And all of this distracts from the country's real issue, plutocracy.
Well said, Craig! :)
 

Craig234

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Well said, Craig! :)
Thank you for the nice words. One other comment. I don't think people are that different from the early US; in ways, they're more educated now. What's changed is the amount of smothering lies thrown at them from almost none in the past, to the saturation on cable, radio, the internet and more now. It creates 'bubbles' of lies like never before. We had better look for ways to combat the bad actors. Or, say 'what was so bad about WWII? Let's do it again'.
 

The AntiDonald

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First off don't believe the poll numbers, the race is much tighter than the polls suggest. Even the Biden campaign is warning the race is closer than the polls may suggest.

Trump will get every person who voted for him in 2016 and many more.
No No. Quite the opposite. There are focus groups across the country showing people are leaving the Trump cult in droves. Especially women. And Trump's not adding to his fold. I don't disagree it will be close, but Biden has the edge.
 

AlphaOmega

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No No. Quite the opposite. There are focus groups across the country showing people are leaving the Trump cult in droves. Especially women. And Trump's not adding to his fold. I don't disagree it will be close, but Biden has the edge.
What was the crowd size at Bidens last rally?
 

The AntiDonald

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What was the crowd size at Bidens last rally?
Crowd sizes don't mean sh**. There are no new Trump supporters at his rallies. If he shut them down, he'd have the same voters. A crowd size of 5000 is a minute measurement of the people. I live in a county of 1.2 million, most of which will vote for Biden.

Every state has enough trailer parks and rednecks to give Trump a large looking rally.
 

AlphaOmega

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Crowd sizes don't mean sh**. There are no new Trump supporters at his rallies. If he shut them down, he'd have the same voters. A crowd size of 5000 is a minute measurement of the people. I live in a county of 1.2 million, most of which will vote for Biden.
I'm glad you have hope. It makes the Trump win sting more.
 

AlphaOmega

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Crowd sizes don't mean sh**. There are no new Trump supporters at his rallies. If he shut them down, he'd have the same voters. A crowd size of 5000 is a minute measurement of the people. I live in a county of 1.2 million, most of which will vote for Biden.

Every state has enough trailer parks and rednecks to give Trump a large looking rally.
Also..nice racism there.
 

joluoto

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I used to be a Republican until Trump. Now, it feels kind of funny to think of voting for the Democrat, so I'll just have to vote without thinking.
Changing party, even temporarily is a hard thing to do. Voting Biden is the only way to get the crook out of the White House though. When it comes to downballot at least don't vote Trumpist. Now I of course don't know how ingrediens in the Cult of Trumo your local Republicans are, but the important thing for all you Americans will be to get the Crook and his Cult out.
 

skews13.

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I used to be a Republican until Trump. Now, it feels kind of funny to think of voting for the Democrat, so I'll just have to vote without thinking.
Hi Emily. Always remember, you don't vote for a person, a personality, or a party. You vote for policy that effects how you, and your family will be able to have a quality of life.
 

Court Jester

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No No. Quite the opposite. There are focus groups across the country showing people are leaving the Trump cult in droves. Especially women. And Trump's not adding to his fold. I don't disagree it will be close, but Biden has the edge.
We'll see. Heard the same thing when Gore lost, when Kerry lost, and when Hillary lost.
 

Chuck9788

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I used to be a Republican until Trump. Now, it feels kind of funny to think of voting for the Democrat, so I'll just have to vote without thinking.
Care to explain yourself? Emily, under President Trump women experienced record low unemployment. Women made more money than ever and women had more employment opportunities (white collar jobs) than ever before. President Trump has strengthened womens stature in the USA.

So is your vote based solely on emotions and feelings resulting from false propaganda?
 

Emily L

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Care to explain yourself? Emily, under President Trump women experienced record low unemployment. Women made more money than ever and women had more employment opportunities (white collar jobs) than ever before. President Trump has strengthened womens stature in the USA.

So is your vote based solely on emotions and feelings resulting from false propaganda?

Chuck, you're right, and if the nation were nothing but women, then I would probably vote accordingly. But I have to consider which candidate would be the best choice for the most number of people, regardless of sex, race, age, religion, or bathroom habits.

This is a very tough decision, and what you said has actually made it tougher--in a good way. This might be one of those things where I'll end up deciding on election day (yes, I'm too fickle to vote early).
 

btthegreat

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One of the great strengths in the Biden candidacy both in the primaries and this general election, was that he could afford to be the 'low budget' nominee. He did not need to spend a dime to gain name familiarity with voters, or to really define himself before this 2020 election. Everyone knew 'Uncle Joe' as a likeable if somewhat blunder prone old fashioned New England liberal Democrat. With everyone else, Trump could paint all those flaws on a white canvas, but with Biden he had to erase what was already sitting in voters minds, and then paint those nasty negatives, and that takes a lot more media and money. His attacks simply have not stuck and they are not likely to start now. Voters are not -re-appraising Joe with a more jaundiced eye, no matter how much Trump brings up Hunter Biden, or some stupid remark Joe made on tape.

That is why Joe was actually more dangerous to Trump than Sanders, or Buttigieg, or Bloomburg, or Warren, or Klobuchar. Voters had already decided that they liked and trusted this guy before he announced his candidacy.
 
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btthegreat

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Hi Emily. Always remember, you don't vote for a person, a personality, or a party. You vote for policy that effects how you, and your family will be able to have a quality of life.
Actually you vote primarily for a person with specific attributes of character, and experience and for a set of goals or aspirations, if they can best accomplish those goals. You are asking whether they can hire motivate and keep staff, manage the bureaucracy, if they can actually be effective administrators, if they can focus public opinion, persuade and negotiate with adversaries or opponents, The specific policies that they advocate are virtually useless, because they hit a total roadblock once they hit a Congressional hopper room in the form of a rough draft piece of legislation. What you get from them expressing those policies, is a sense of how their mind works out problems, and how they prioritize disparate values. I never vote on the policies themselves.
 
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